Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Swiss politics/news  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 03.05.2011, 01:09
m_dalloway's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Tokyo
Posts: 323
Groaned at 14 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 363 Times in 170 Posts
m_dalloway has an excellent reputationm_dalloway has an excellent reputationm_dalloway has an excellent reputationm_dalloway has an excellent reputation
Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

Quote:
View Post
Hansjörg Schneider with his Kommissär Hunkeler may not be "outstanding" by your comparison but is successful, and his books are in Standard German and well sold in Germany. His books only can be sold commercially thanks to the German language market (D/CH/OE).
As does Kliby and Caroline.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 03.05.2011, 01:11
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,023
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,716 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

Quote:
View Post
Good point.
Though I am wondering if the lack of quality of Swiss literature may not be due to the negligence of Standard German in education over the last 20 years, and the inclination to 'Swiss Germanize' any type of written communication by the younger generation.

(As heard recently on radio, not even the most prominent Swiss writers, like Zoe Jenny or Lukas Baerfuss, are these days able to conduct a sophisticated conversation in HG when asked to do so.)
Never heard about the two you mention, but you on TV can hear CH people conducting sophisticated conversations in Standard German.

Roger Graf and Hansjörg Schneider for sure are able to do so also. And so is Marco Rima, who is at home in a different field. As is Roger Federer, active in quite another area again.

Michelle Hunziker has no problems with Standard German (Wetten Dass) and she is not a top intellectual, but rather a kind of entertainer. Whether she can "survive" without Thomas Gottschalk may be another question. BUT that she is able to do full conversation in Standard German is a definite fact
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 03.05.2011, 04:21
eddiejc1's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Derwood, MD USA
Posts: 1,005
Groaned at 22 Times in 20 Posts
Thanked 684 Times in 372 Posts
eddiejc1 has an excellent reputationeddiejc1 has an excellent reputationeddiejc1 has an excellent reputationeddiejc1 has an excellent reputation
Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

This is slightly off-topic, but since posters have asked about my vacation, here is an interesting observation. I'm seeing the letters SVP appear over and over in this area. It is short for "sil vous plais" and it means please. Those three letters are associated with courtesy and politeness. I don't think many people on this board associates those qualities with the Swiss SVP.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank eddiejc1 for this useful post:
  #44  
Old 03.05.2011, 05:25
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: California
Posts: 656
Groaned at 25 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 686 Times in 304 Posts
SwissPete has earned the respect of manySwissPete has earned the respect of manySwissPete has earned the respect of many
Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

Little detail: S'il vous plait.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank SwissPete for this useful post:
  #45  
Old 03.05.2011, 07:41
Longbyt's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 8,130
Groaned at 57 Times in 53 Posts
Thanked 12,980 Times in 4,732 Posts
Longbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

And there was me thinking all those years that it was 'S'il vous plaît'.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Longbyt for this useful post:
  #46  
Old 03.05.2011, 11:08
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: At home
Posts: 4,172
Groaned at 208 Times in 133 Posts
Thanked 6,404 Times in 2,719 Posts
Faltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

Quote:
View Post
Though I am wondering if the lack of quality of Swiss literature may not be due to the negligence of Standard German in education over the last 20 years
Martin Suter is not that bad if you don't stick to the Business class books. Perfect Friend and Small World show more depth and a well mastered style. I didn't read the third one of the trilogy, sorry.

To me, the place of high German outside of school is far more important for its image among young people. School can only build on what the culture allows it to build up on. Disrespect for gepflegte Sprache (good quality language?) is the reason why many young adults don't make the effort to master their own language at higher levels of style and command. I dont blame single people nor single institutions, but the air has not been fresh for some time now for German in this country. The expectations remains however the same: Swiss German MUST be perfect german speakers like any other, that is with local flavour and coulour but not less than the others. That is mostly the case in famillies with care for culture, it is not really the case anymore in the broad mass. I don't mind that much, they do what they want, I just observe and see the results I can compare between Swiss German speakers and French speakers. I do not judge, I just open my eyes.
__________________
Es wird nichts ausgelassen, um mich hier herauszuekeln. Ein Lehrbuch. False accusations and attacks continue. There is no stopping righteous people when they are wrong.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Faltrad for this useful post:
  #47  
Old 03.05.2011, 13:19
eddiejc1's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Derwood, MD USA
Posts: 1,005
Groaned at 22 Times in 20 Posts
Thanked 684 Times in 372 Posts
eddiejc1 has an excellent reputationeddiejc1 has an excellent reputationeddiejc1 has an excellent reputationeddiejc1 has an excellent reputation
Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

Quote:
View Post
Little detail: S'il vous plait.
Quote:
View Post
And there was me thinking all those years that it was 'S'il vous plaît'.
Thanks for correcting my spelling, although on my iPad I can't type all the accents that are necessary for French.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 03.05.2011, 13:27
mirfield's Avatar
Moddy Wellies
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 8,715
Groaned at 54 Times in 48 Posts
Thanked 9,623 Times in 3,557 Posts
mirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

Quote:
View Post
Thanks for correcting my spelling, although on my iPad I can't type all the accents that are necessary for French.
Actually, iPads are good for accents. Just keep your finger on the letter for a few seconds and a little boy will pop up with various accented versions of that letter. Just slide to the one you want.




E.T.A. - Just noticed my typo, but I think I'll leave it there. The image of a little boy with many accents amuses me.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank mirfield for this useful post:
  #49  
Old 03.05.2011, 15:01
flow23's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Zürich
Posts: 3,031
Groaned at 91 Times in 69 Posts
Thanked 1,777 Times in 963 Posts
flow23 has a reputation beyond reputeflow23 has a reputation beyond reputeflow23 has a reputation beyond reputeflow23 has a reputation beyond reputeflow23 has a reputation beyond reputeflow23 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

Quote:
View Post
I just can't comprehend the obsession of swiss people with their dialects. As if it's the only thing that distinguishes them from the northern neighbour. Germans certainly don't consider Switzerland as an "outpost of Germany" whether or not swiss german is the main language. Votes like this only increase the averseness of people to standard german. On top of that it looks like the perfect opportunity to show 'them' what 'we' think about 'their' language.

Please dear people from Switzerland: do agree on a standard swiss german, develop basic grammar rules and literary language and disburden yourself from having to use high german.
projection, freudian slip. swiss wanna be german. thats why they project their thoughts on us. switzerland plays literally no role in any aspect of german everyday life. its nice, has chocolate, watches and army knifes. plus they speak a bit emil-like-funny and are a bit slow (in the head, due to inbread) thats what i "knew" as a kid. its a stereotype. but the swiss cause more fuss among themselfes about germany than vice versa.

if they wanna speak mundart...feel free.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 03.05.2011, 20:11
eddiejc1's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Derwood, MD USA
Posts: 1,005
Groaned at 22 Times in 20 Posts
Thanked 684 Times in 372 Posts
eddiejc1 has an excellent reputationeddiejc1 has an excellent reputationeddiejc1 has an excellent reputationeddiejc1 has an excellent reputation
Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

Quote:
View Post
Actually, iPads are good for accents. Just keep your finger on the letter for a few seconds and a little boy will pop up with various accented versions of that letter. Just slide to the one you want.




E.T.A. - Just noticed my typo, but I think I'll leave it there. The image of a little boy with many accents amuses me.
S'il vous plaîs. It works--thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 03.05.2011, 20:26
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: California
Posts: 656
Groaned at 25 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 686 Times in 304 Posts
SwissPete has earned the respect of manySwissPete has earned the respect of manySwissPete has earned the respect of many
Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

Quote:
View Post
And there was me thinking all those years that it was 'S'il vous plaît'.
Yeah, I definitely missed the '^'!
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 03.05.2011, 20:30
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

s’il vous plaît /s‿il vu plɛ/ (orthographe traditionnelle)
  1. Locution qui permet de demander de façon polie, quelque chose, à quelqu’un que l’on vouvoie, ou à plusieurs personnes.
    • Monsieur, quelle heure est-il, s’il vous plaît ? — S’il vous plaît, les gars, vous pouvez venir m’aider ?
  2. Locution qui permet acquiescer poliment.
  3. Locution qui permet d'insister sur un point du discours.
    • Mais elle a voulu sa garçonnière, s'il vous plait, du côté de l'Étoile. C'est là qu'on livre ses robes et ses manteaux. — (Victor Méric, Les compagnons de l'Escopette, 1930, p.200)


Variantes orthographiques

Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 03.05.2011, 20:36
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: At home
Posts: 4,172
Groaned at 208 Times in 133 Posts
Thanked 6,404 Times in 2,719 Posts
Faltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

I don't mean to discourage you from good French, but just that you know:

In 1990, the académie française put a little bit of order into it and the accent circonflexe is not a must anymore on i and u with two exceptions in verbs for very good historical reasons. Otherwise, on a, e and o, there is no change.

http://www.academie-francaise.fr/lan...he/regles.html
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Faltrad for this useful post:
  #54  
Old 03.05.2011, 20:42
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,023
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,716 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

Quote:
View Post
projection, freudian slip. swiss wanna be german. thats why they project their thoughts on us. switzerland plays literally no role in any aspect of german everyday life. its nice, has chocolate, watches and army knifes. plus they speak a bit emil-like-funny and are a bit slow (in the head, due to inbread) thats what i "knew" as a kid. its a stereotype. but the swiss cause more fuss among themselfes about germany than vice versa.

if they wanna speak mundart...feel free.
Last time I made a reality-check, Germany was slightly larger than Switzerland
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 03.05.2011, 20:46
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

I can assure you that I don't know any Romand who aspires to being German, honest ))
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 03.05.2011, 23:04
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,023
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,716 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

Quote:
I can assure you that I don't know any Romand who aspires to being German, honest ))
And the Romands are far friendlier with the Germans than the "Alémaniques" . What makes Switzerland is that the German speakers do not want to be Germans, the French speakers do not want to be French and the Italian speakers do not want to be Italians. But in reality, all three groups want and DO participate in German, French and Italian culture
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Wollishofener for this useful post:
  #57  
Old 04.05.2011, 00:08
Uncle Max's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Züri
Posts: 7,582
Groaned at 171 Times in 111 Posts
Thanked 8,424 Times in 3,486 Posts
Uncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

Back OT, kinda:

Standardisation of a dialect can only happen in the valley where that dialect is spoken; jump to the next Kanton and the voodoo changes. How are these issues currently resolved? Do half the kids in multi-kulti schools miss out on what the teacher is saying? That also doesn't seem right.

The Swiss German 'language' isn't dying out anytime soon.

All the Swiss I know end up arguing with each other when asked the 'Swiss' word for something obscure; it does seem rather provincial to have Village Speak at the expense of Klartext.

A further anecdote: the lil' ones I know at Chindsgi understand High German as well as the local patois. Is it a pride issue or will educational needs be improved by having a uniform, proper language acoss the board?
__________________
Wave ¦ Synthpop ¦ 80's ¦ Alternative ¦ Party ¦ Sat 24.03 Provitreff Zurich
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 04.05.2011, 02:42
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,023
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,716 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

Quote:
View Post
Back OT, kinda:

Standardisation of a dialect can only happen in the valley where that dialect is spoken; jump to the next Kanton and the voodoo changes. How are these issues currently resolved? Do half the kids in multi-kulti schools miss out on what the teacher is saying? That also doesn't seem right.

The Swiss German 'language' isn't dying out anytime soon.

All the Swiss I know end up arguing with each other when asked the 'Swiss' word for something obscure; it does seem rather provincial to have Village Speak at the expense of Klartext.

A further anecdote: the lil' ones I know at Chindsgi understand High German as well as the local patois. Is it a pride issue or will educational needs be improved by having a uniform, proper language acoss the board?
That the little ones in Kindergarten understand Standard German is clear. It however does not mean that they also speak Standard German.
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 04.05.2011, 04:09
eddiejc1's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Derwood, MD USA
Posts: 1,005
Groaned at 22 Times in 20 Posts
Thanked 684 Times in 372 Posts
eddiejc1 has an excellent reputationeddiejc1 has an excellent reputationeddiejc1 has an excellent reputationeddiejc1 has an excellent reputation
Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

Quote:
View Post
I don't mean to discourage you from good French, but just that you know:

In 1990, the académie française put a little bit of order into it and the accent circonflexe is not a must anymore on i and u with two exceptions in verbs for very good historical reasons. Otherwise, on a, e and o, there is no change.

http://www.academie-francaise.fr/lan...he/regles.html
I'm trying to work myself up to mediocre French. Then and only then will I move on to GOOD French!
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 04.05.2011, 09:56
mirfield's Avatar
Moddy Wellies
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 8,715
Groaned at 54 Times in 48 Posts
Thanked 9,623 Times in 3,557 Posts
mirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

Quote:
View Post
GOOD French!
Is that not an oxymoron?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
children, kantonsrat, kindergarten, mundart, zurich




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Swiss rules on keeping (and disposing of) animals Rachel888 Pet corner 35 16.11.2009 16:41
[Swiss German, Zürich] Looking for private Swiss german lessons sofielein Language corner 10 11.08.2009 23:44
Zug/Zürich - Offering (Swiss) German practice mosaic Language corner 4 09.04.2008 21:06
Keeping the Swiss plates after relocating abroad? Jari Transportation/driving 3 15.01.2008 18:08


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 10:50.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0