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  #61  
Old 04.05.2011, 16:26
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Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

Oh...please!

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And there was me thinking all those years that it was 'S'il vous plaît'.
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  #62  
Old 04.05.2011, 21:11
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Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

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Is that not an oxymoron?
No, as Good French is the Parisian "sous-la-coupole" French of class
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  #63  
Old 11.05.2011, 18:20
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Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

In our local kindergarten (kanton but not city of Zurich), it's Hoch Deutsch for three mornings and Swiss German for the other two. There are two teachers, one generally only speaks HD and the other only SG. At the Hort, it's almost always SG (the head even speaks SG to us most of the time despite our understanding very very little of the language!).

From our point of view (newly arrived), this was ideal - child learns both HD and SG. I would not have been happy it been only SG. I thought this initiative (not yet the details) was for going back to 100% SG - is that not the case?
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  #64  
Old 15.05.2011, 17:31
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Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

Guess I wasn't the only patriotic dude out voting this morning:

http://www.20min.ch/news/zuerich/sto...ochen-23305813

CH-DE only for our ZH Canton Kindergartens.

Good job.
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  #65  
Old 15.05.2011, 17:55
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Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

So, what do they do if the Kindergarten teacher comes from Germany? Does he/she now have to speak to the kids in Swiss German with a German accent? Well thought through, this initiative
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  #66  
Old 15.05.2011, 18:00
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Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

Well, even though I don't really like the sound of the Swiss-german dialect, I voted to keep it in kindergarten .....and so did 54% of the voters, hooray!!!
You must be happy, too!
FEXY
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  #67  
Old 15.05.2011, 18:20
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Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

The current curriculum does not say 100% all the time. Methinks a lot of people didn't read the text properly. The initiative text is wishy-washy anyway: Books written German can still be read in High-German. If they were serious they would have the kindergarten teachers translate them all while they're reading into Swiss German.

To say the kids will forget what the Swiss German word for carrot is ("Rüebli") and the fear of the German words taking over is ridiculous imo.

And then in the "Oberstufe" they complain that the student's competence in High German is not sufficient.

Two steps forward, three steps back.

I guess you know what I voted for.
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  #68  
Old 15.05.2011, 19:01
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Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

I like the result. It will ensure that I can also compliment future generations of Zürchers with "Your German is pretty good for a Swiss"...
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  #69  
Old 15.05.2011, 19:08
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Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

Our kids are leaving school with a poor command of Schriftdeutsch. The schools need to do something in a hurry. Some ideas:

- make Wednesday afternoons mandatory
- have kids take French as of the secondary school and not during the primary school

Except for school and watching TV, our kids are not using their high German skills, which clearly shows in their writing skills.

I'm very disturbed by this problem and hope the German part of Switzerland will recognize the need to change their current curriculum.
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  #70  
Old 15.05.2011, 19:12
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Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

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So, what do they do if the Kindergarten teacher comes from Germany? Does he/she now have to speak to the kids in Swiss German with a German accent? Well thought through, this initiative
Interesting thought..... but just think if you placed your message in another country: let's say France

What would they do in France if the German kindergarden teacher didn't speak French ?
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  #71  
Old 15.05.2011, 19:22
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Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

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Interesting thought..... but just think if you placed your message in another country: let's say France

What would they do in France if the German kindergarden teacher didn't speak French ?
That's a rubbish comparison as German and French are obviously two completely different languages while Swiss German is a (spoken) dialect.

The entire topic is complete rubbish. It's all about the typical Swiss "we are so special" language patriotism gone wrong.

80% of Germany speaks some form of dialect as well, often comparably different from Standard German as Swiss German. I am not aware of any law necessary to regulate the "problem" in Germany at all: A Kindergarden teacher speaks "naturally" with the kids. No, you do not need to translate a High German children book into Bavarian or Saxon, the kids will learn to understand it anyway.

As soon as they are in primary school is it "High German only", at least to the extent of what the local teacher believe is high German... easy.
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  #72  
Old 15.05.2011, 19:28
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Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

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That's a rubbish comparison as German and French are obviously two completely different languages while Swiss German is a (spoken) dialect.

The entire topic is complete rubbish. It's all about the typical Swiss "we are so special" language patriotism gone wrong.

80% of Germany speaks some form of dialect as well, often comparably different from Standard German as Swiss German. I am not aware of any law necessary to regulate the "problem" in Germany at all: A Kindergarden teacher speaks "naturally" with the kids. No, you do not need to translate a High German children book into Bavarian or Saxon, the kids will learn to understand it anyway.

As soon as they are in primary school is it "High German only", at least to the extent of what the local teacher believe is high German... easy.
Perhaps, and I've had the honour of having the brilliant pro's and con's explained to me by Faltrad (impressive).

I am no expert on this intellectual subject.

Nevertheless, I do believe that the Swiss-Germans might not feel the same way as you do above. Language is personal and emotional.
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  #73  
Old 15.05.2011, 19:42
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Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

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Interesting thought..... but just think if you placed your message in another country: let's say France

What would they do in France if the German kindergarden teacher didn't speak French ?
French schools are not likely to employ a German-speaking kindergarten teacher. Whereas the shortage of teachers in the German-speaking part of Switzerland, especially Zurich, is an extreme problem. There are a lot being recruited from Germany.
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  #74  
Old 15.05.2011, 19:49
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Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

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So, what do they do if the Kindergarten teacher comes from Germany?
I suspect it will prove very difficult for non-Swiss teachers to get jobs in Kindergartens because of this. That means a small pool of labour, meaning potentials shortages leading to higher wages.

I hope the people of Zurich will be happy to pay extra for the higher wages as a result.
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  #75  
Old 15.05.2011, 19:51
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Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

As a German, it's understandable that you don't understand what this vote was all about...
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That's a rubbish comparison as German and French are obviously two completely different languages while Swiss German is a (spoken) dialect.

The entire topic is complete rubbish. It's all about the typical Swiss "we are so special" language patriotism gone wrong.

80% of Germany speaks some form of dialect as well, often comparably different from Standard German as Swiss German. I am not aware of any law necessary to regulate the "problem" in Germany at all: A Kindergarden teacher speaks "naturally" with the kids. No, you do not need to translate a High German children book into Bavarian or Saxon, the kids will learn to understand it anyway.

As soon as they are in primary school is it "High German only", at least to the extent of what the local teacher believe is high German... easy.
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  #76  
Old 15.05.2011, 20:18
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Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

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I like the result. It will ensure that I can also compliment future generations of Zürchers with "Your German is pretty good for a Swiss"...
Having learned whatever German conversational skills I might have in CH, when subsequently told by Germans that I sound like a Swiss (very possibly meant as less than a compliment), I proudly thank them.
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  #77  
Old 15.05.2011, 20:33
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Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

I grew up with Swiss German in kindergarten and primary school, yet somehow I've ended up with fairly good German regardless. Neither of my parents speak German properly, so I couldn't have got it from there. I did, however, read lots of German books and watched a lot of German telly, which seems to have done the trick. On the other hand, a "foreign" kid can't really do the same with the Swiss German and it really is a door opener for certain jobs in this country to understand it and be able to speak it.
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  #78  
Old 15.05.2011, 21:12
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Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

Yeah, I was in a similar situation during my time at school in Switzerland, Kittster. In every subject but German the teacher spoke to us in Swiss German. That seemed to have worked very well for me and for others in my class. If you are willing to put in the work to master High German you can do so in the current Swiss school system. On a seperate note Swiss German plays a pivotel role in Swiss culture as it represents a form of Swiss identity. Learning Swiss German is part of being "Swiss" in the German speaking part of Switzerland. The opportunity to be exposed to Swiss German in Kindergarten allows foreign students to appreciate and learn Swiss-German, but it also reaffirms the language's significance to the German speaking part of Switzerland.
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  #79  
Old 15.05.2011, 21:57
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Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

Well, whatever the pros and cons, at least the Swiss have had a go at tackling the issue and let the people have their say.
The result was the correct one IMHO.
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  #80  
Old 15.05.2011, 21:57
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Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

Is that why it goes dark on Wednesday lunchtimes?

Cheers,
Nick

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- make Wednesday afternoons mandatory
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