Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Swiss politics/news  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #81  
Old 15.05.2011, 23:06
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,037
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,716 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

Quote:
View Post
Guess I wasn't the only patriotic dude out voting this morning:

http://www.20min.ch/news/zuerich/sto...ochen-23305813

CH-DE only for our ZH Canton Kindergartens.

Good job.
As much as I am generally in favour of Standard-German, for Kindergarten it too me went too far, and so my vote clearly was in favour of dialect in Kindergarten.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Wollishofener for this useful post:
  #82  
Old 15.05.2011, 23:11
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Luxembourg
Posts: 11,422
Groaned at 287 Times in 244 Posts
Thanked 21,342 Times in 7,777 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

Quote:
View Post
As a German, it's understandable that you don't understand what this vote was all about...
I fully understand what the vote was about. It is the typical "we are losing our cultural identity" fear mongering that leads to all the "no immigration" stuff as well. I just don't agree to the initiative. That's a major difference from being ignorant or a bossy German dissing the local dialect. I just don't think there is a need for a law that specifies the dialect that has to be spoken in a Kindergarden. A non-issue not too different from minarets... but anyway, Helvetia was rescued today.

Quote:
View Post
I grew up with Swiss German in kindergarten and primary school, yet somehow I've ended up with fairly good German regardless.
True, your German is pretty good for a Swiss.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Treverus for this useful post:
  #83  
Old 15.05.2011, 23:12
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,037
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,716 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

Quote:
View Post
So, what do they do if the Kindergarten teacher comes from Germany? Does he/she now have to speak to the kids in Swiss German with a German accent? Well thought through, this initiative
Relax ! Most German teachers here around originate from Southern Baden-Württemberg or from Bavaria or Saxonia and speak a dialect fairly similar to the dialects overhere. And so do not have a real problem to talk in dialect. Different ? A teacher from Basel or Bern in Zürich also does not have it easy. The primary school teacher of my mother in Schaffhausen was from Bern, and in Schaffhausen NEVER spoke dialect (and here I refer also to private live -- she often was guest in the home of my grand parents), only Standard German, while the many German people from neighbouring areas, working in Schaffhausen, spoke dialect !
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Wollishofener for this useful post:
  #84  
Old 15.05.2011, 23:19
Oldhand's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 3,995
Groaned at 18 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 6,748 Times in 2,038 Posts
Oldhand has a reputation beyond reputeOldhand has a reputation beyond reputeOldhand has a reputation beyond reputeOldhand has a reputation beyond reputeOldhand has a reputation beyond reputeOldhand has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

I've been waiting for the results of this vote to advertise for a new teacher. I didn't know whether to employ a German or a Swiss German speaking teacher for my new"preparing for Kindergarten" afternoons for English speaking 3 year old's. So if anyone knows a Swiss-German teacher with a decent command of English, please let me know.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Oldhand for this useful post:
  #85  
Old 15.05.2011, 23:22
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,037
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,716 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

Quote:
View Post
The current curriculum does not say 100% all the time. Methinks a lot of people didn't read the text properly. The initiative text is wishy-washy anyway: Books written German can still be read in High-German. If they were serious they would have the kindergarten teachers translate them all while they're reading into Swiss German.

To say the kids will forget what the Swiss German word for carrot is ("Rüebli") and the fear of the German words taking over is ridiculous imo.

And then in the "Oberstufe" they complain that the student's competence in High German is not sufficient.

Two steps forward, three steps back.

I guess you know what I voted for.
More important would be if these Lokal-Radio-Stations would stop translating Standard-German texts back into dialect from their papers and simply read them down in Standard-German ! And if Swiss TV would change back the Meteo report from dialect to Standard German.
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old 15.05.2011, 23:22
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: zurich
Posts: 32
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 16 Times in 11 Posts
josk has no particular reputation at present
Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

Does anyone know when this change comes into effect? We currently get 3 days of KG in Swiss German and 2 days in High German. Is this likely to change imminently, next school year etc...?
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 15.05.2011, 23:23
Sky's Avatar
Sky Sky is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Somewhere special far away
Posts: 4,053
Groaned at 51 Times in 37 Posts
Thanked 6,074 Times in 2,338 Posts
Sky has a reputation beyond reputeSky has a reputation beyond reputeSky has a reputation beyond reputeSky has a reputation beyond reputeSky has a reputation beyond reputeSky has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

Quote:
View Post
I fully understand what the vote was about. It is the typical "we are losing our cultural identity" fear mongering that leads to all the "no immigration" stuff as well. I just don't agree to the initiative.


Without the slightest extreme or political party etc, I do find there is an issue of losing cultural identity.

It's not wrong to protect cultural identity.

I don't always feel comfortable with the feeling that very Swiss things/traditions/ideas/ways of life that define the country and make it special, tend to get dissolved and even disappear.

Other countries do this too. I was recently in Rome and was amazed to see how well preserved the center of Rome is in the sense of an Italian identity. You don't find any foreign impacts (fast foods for instance) directly beside the Coliseum or fori romani. Everything remains authentic.

Not saying it has to be the same, but sustaining the identity of a country through culture, language, traditions has a lot of good in it too.
__________________
.
"Il mondo è fatto a scale, chi le scende e chi le sale"
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 15.05.2011, 23:24
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,037
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,716 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

Quote:
View Post
I fully understand what the vote was about. It is the typical "we are losing our cultural identity" fear mongering that leads to all the "no immigration" stuff as well. I just don't agree to the initiative. That's a major difference from being ignorant or a bossy German dissing the local dialect. I just don't think there is a need for a law that specifies the dialect that has to be spoken in a Kindergarden. A non-issue not too different from minarets... but anyway, Helvetia was rescued today.



True, your German is pretty good for a Swiss.
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 15.05.2011, 23:45
m_dalloway's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Tokyo
Posts: 323
Groaned at 14 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 363 Times in 170 Posts
m_dalloway has an excellent reputationm_dalloway has an excellent reputationm_dalloway has an excellent reputationm_dalloway has an excellent reputation
Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

Quote:
View Post
So, what do they do if the Kindergarten teacher comes from Germany? Does he/she now have to speak to the kids in Swiss German with a German accent? Well thought through, this initiative
Apparently teachers from Germany must speak with the Swiss kids in bavarian, saxon, koelsch or whichever dialect they're proficient in, instead of teaching them High German.

Don't ask.

http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/zuerich/...story/31697871

http://translate.google.com/translat...ory%2F31697871
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank m_dalloway for this useful post:
  #90  
Old 16.05.2011, 00:09
Uncle Max's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Züri
Posts: 7,658
Groaned at 171 Times in 111 Posts
Thanked 8,424 Times in 3,486 Posts
Uncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

Does anyone here work within PR / Marketing / Communications? How many Germans have moved into roles where previously a Swiss person with reasonable English would have done? Swiss communications souls often comment on their inferior command of German and are naturally threatened. I've noticed the same within media and political advisory positions. Not all of Ze Germans are as charming and good looking natured as Treverus, though...


Quote:
View Post
I've been waiting for the results of this vote to advertise for a new teacher. I didn't know whether to employ a German or a Swiss German speaking teacher for my new"preparing for Kindergarten" afternoons for English speaking 3 year old's. So if anyone knows a Swiss-German teacher with a decent command of English, please let me know.
Hello Together! I press the thumbs for you!
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Uncle Max for this useful post:
  #91  
Old 16.05.2011, 00:28
Oldhand's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 3,995
Groaned at 18 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 6,748 Times in 2,038 Posts
Oldhand has a reputation beyond reputeOldhand has a reputation beyond reputeOldhand has a reputation beyond reputeOldhand has a reputation beyond reputeOldhand has a reputation beyond reputeOldhand has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

Dear Mr Uncle,

The English is for communication with the parents. I hope my future teacher can press all the buttons and thumbs.
Reply With Quote
  #92  
Old 16.05.2011, 01:38
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Luxembourg
Posts: 11,422
Groaned at 287 Times in 244 Posts
Thanked 21,342 Times in 7,777 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

Quote:
View Post
Apparently teachers from Germany must speak with the Swiss kids in bavarian, saxon, koelsch or whichever dialect they're proficient in, instead of teaching them High German.
Quote:
View Post
Not all of Ze Germans are as charming and good looking natured as Treverus, though...
De Pimpanellen bald isch krisch.

Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Treverus for this useful post:
  #93  
Old 16.05.2011, 09:07
NicM's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: zurich
Posts: 489
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 191 Times in 115 Posts
NicM has a reputation beyond reputeNicM has a reputation beyond reputeNicM has a reputation beyond reputeNicM has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

Wow. As a parent I'm baffled by this decision. Admittedly, my preference is that my son learns the universally functional high german but i also thinks it's good that he learns dialect. Based on the premise that two languages are better than one, especially during the kindergarten years, it makes little sense to ban high german except to exert nationalistic tendancies. What a win for the SVP. :-(
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank NicM for this useful post:
  #94  
Old 16.05.2011, 10:30
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Zurich
Posts: 591
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 236 Times in 146 Posts
c123 has earned some respectc123 has earned some respect
Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

Same as NicM.

I'm devasted, worried and just don't understand. Almost as baffingly as the conversation I've just had on the subject with my colleague from Glarus. He is usually logical, ordered etc but in this debate all that seems to go out the window. Seems to me that the Swiss really have an inferiority complex, and here are clutching at a silly way to differentiate themselves.

Oh well will have to see how it plays out in September onwards. But this is very bad news in my view, I liked the current mix of HG and SG.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank c123 for this useful post:
  #95  
Old 16.05.2011, 10:32
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Zurich
Posts: 591
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 236 Times in 146 Posts
c123 has earned some respectc123 has earned some respect
Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

Quote:
View Post
Does anyone know when this change comes into effect? We currently get 3 days of KG in Swiss German and 2 days in High German. Is this likely to change imminently, next school year etc...?
System we have as well (or the other way round - anyway, a (IMHO) 'healthy' mix. Would be great (for us) if this was only implemented in the schoolyear 2012-13.
Reply With Quote
  #96  
Old 16.05.2011, 10:47
Salsa_Lover
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

The world will be a better place when a civilized language is widely spoken in Züri
Reply With Quote
This user groans at for this post:
  #97  
Old 16.05.2011, 11:12
NicM's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: zurich
Posts: 489
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 191 Times in 115 Posts
NicM has a reputation beyond reputeNicM has a reputation beyond reputeNicM has a reputation beyond reputeNicM has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

I just read that only 34% of residents voted on this matter. Is this a normal turnout? (just wondering.....)
Reply With Quote
  #98  
Old 16.05.2011, 11:18
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Luxembourg
Posts: 11,422
Groaned at 287 Times in 244 Posts
Thanked 21,342 Times in 7,777 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

Quote:
View Post
Oh well will have to see how it plays out in September onwards. But this is very bad news in my view, I liked the current mix of HG and SG.
I just heard an interview with the "Bildungsdirektorin" of Canton Zurich.

1. She is unhappy about the decision that there needs to be a law.

2. She interprets the law that there is still space for both languages. (The text of the initiative is not that well written and therefore leaves spaces for interpretation. I personally find this equally wrong as the intention of the initiative is after all crystal clear... and in a democracy is it her job to accept the opinion of the voters no matter if she personally agrees or not.)

3. The changes will only take place for the school year starting Sep 2012.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank Treverus for this useful post:
  #99  
Old 16.05.2011, 12:31
AbFab's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 7,426
Groaned at 315 Times in 211 Posts
Thanked 9,899 Times in 3,479 Posts
AbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

Quote:
View Post
Wow. As a parent I'm baffled by this decision. <snip>
That's because you're not Swiss...
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank AbFab for this useful post:
  #100  
Old 16.05.2011, 14:15
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 23,048
Groaned at 553 Times in 424 Posts
Thanked 25,561 Times in 11,734 Posts
Odile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

As a Swiss (Romande) I'm still sitting on the fence on this one. Been following the situation on this thread and the Press- and I can see both sides. In Basle btw education in infant schools will continue 50/50 - which I think is a good solution.

If kids finish their education un-able to speak, read and write High German- it is likely to make it very difficult for them to access higher education and a whole array of 'better' jobs- so it can be seen as a form of 'handicap'. In this sense, the sooner they can work towards god competence in both dialect and high german, the better. Chips on shoulders rarely help, do they?

Must say I ma glad we do not have this 'problem' in Romandie, where the variations between standard French and Suisse Romand are very minor, and mainly limited to vocabulary. When I was a kid we all had strong local accents- I notice that now teenagers here do not. I was lucky my mother spoke a very clear non accented French, and my dad did have a Neuchatel accent- so I was sort of brought up 'bi-lingual' and soon learnt to adapt accent and register depending on audience, a very useful skill. Many Yorkshire, Cornish, Scousers or Geordies, etc, will identify with that.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
children, kantonsrat, kindergarten, mundart, zurich




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Swiss rules on keeping (and disposing of) animals Rachel888 Pet corner 35 16.11.2009 17:41
[Swiss German, Zürich] Looking for private Swiss german lessons sofielein Language corner 10 12.08.2009 00:44
Zug/Zürich - Offering (Swiss) German practice mosaic Language corner 4 09.04.2008 22:06
Keeping the Swiss plates after relocating abroad? Jari Transportation/driving 3 15.01.2008 19:08


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 03:37.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0