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Old 17.05.2011, 11:25
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Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

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20 Minuten states that 10 to 20 % of the 1.700 Kindergärtnerinnen are High German speakers and not Swiss. How exactly does one carry on an initiative ending up being unapplyable to such a large proportion of the people it is supposed to apply to?
If the goal is to forbid Germans to apply to Swiss schools, just say so.
I think that's not the goal, that's a side effect. The goals get a little clearer now: After the success in Basel and Zürich do the conservatives start new initiatives in St Gallen and Schwyz. If there was no problem in Zurich, I cannot say how pointless it is in Schwyz - I can assure everyone that the area is far from losing its Swiss identity... and the use of Swiss German does not seem to be declining there either IMHO.

But naturally do they not want the same as before, every initiative pushes a bit further: "the goal is to have all classes besides languages taught in Swiss German till grade 3". (SVP)

http://www.20min.ch/news/schweiz/sto...tiven-17271615
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  #142  
Old 17.05.2011, 21:45
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Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

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Ok Eddie, I know that you have never been outside the US... but anyway: The Swiss did standardize their language. In the 1890s did they decide to choose Mr Duden's book on grammar and dictionary as reference. That's some ten years before the same standard German became a standard in Germany.
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in the 1890ies it was NOT Swiss German which was standardized but "Schrift-Deutsch" (written German). This is a a difference

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The Swiss love their dialects. Not only does it identify them as Swiss, but where exactly they are from. Some of my colleagues can discuss forever in which part of the country what term is used... someone even programmed an software tool to "analyze your dialect": You choose the expression you use for a list of words and the computer tells you where you're from... (http://dialects.from.ch/)
Sure. I mean if somebody asks me "Heit Iär ...." I know he is Bernese. If somebody with supreme intelligence observes "äs luftet" you know that he is from somewhere between Schaffhausen and "St. Galler Rheintal", and if somebody tells "und dänn hani chönne mitriite" you do not know that he is a good rider but that he is Bernese and had a chance to be given a lift. And so on.

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1. There is no need to "standardize Swiss German" - that is exactly what standard German is for.
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No, quite to the contrary, Standard German allows the dialects to stay different, but everybody, at least more or less using the same language for writing

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2. As the local dialect is important for Mr Schweizer would he rather cut his tongue off than to accept Züri German as a standard for the entire country. Most non-Zürich Swiss are not too fond of the city at all. I have seen t-shirts in Graubünden saying in their local dialect "Nid vo Züri" - "Not from Zurich"...
Ever asked people if anyone outside the two Basel and parts of Aargau and Solothurn would accept Baasel-Tiitsch as the "standard" for the entire country ?
Ever asked people if anyone outside the two Basel is too fond really of that city ?
Ever heard what in Zürich is regarded as the best thing about Basel ? Answer : the direct train back to Zürich

And to Graubünden. Ever realized that a high percentage of the Bündners live in the Canton of Zürich ? Ever realized how much of business in Graubünden is Zürich-owned ? Ever heard some Zürcher up in Graubünden talking as if they were right always ? I in military service up in GR even supported Bündner colleagues who boycotted one ZHer of that sort, when they had explained the matter to me.
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  #143  
Old 18.05.2011, 01:17
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Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

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Ok Eddie, I know that you have never been outside the US... but anyway.
Actually, I have travelled outside the U.S. only a few weeks ago. The first week of May I stayed in the Montréal area for a week, and this was definitely an area where English was not the predominant local language.

Today Canada. Tomorrow Switzerland.
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  #144  
Old 18.05.2011, 06:25
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Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

......Tomorrow the Woooorld !
Eddie, your message is really sweet.
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  #145  
Old 25.05.2011, 20:43
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Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

ok so I hate to ask...but what exactly got voted "yes" ???
only swiss german in kindergarten & first grade?
starting from 2012/2013 school year?

thanks for clearing this up
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Old 25.05.2011, 21:18
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Re: Keeping Swiss German in Kanton Zürich Kindergartens

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ok so I hate to ask...but what exactly got voted "yes" ???
only swiss german in kindergarten & first grade?
starting from 2012/2013 school year?

thanks for clearing this up
Your questions have been asked by the authorities :

starting ? gradually, theoretically immediately, in reality in autumn 2012

Kindergarten & first grade ? No no no
Dialekt / Mundart in Kindergarten
change-over from Dialect to Standard German in the 1st Primary Class

what IS Dialekt ? practically any German Dialekt south of the Taunus line. Dialects like Schtuttgarterisch and Lörracherisch and Vorarlbärgisch are deemed acceptable a Kindergärtnerin in Uster of Saxony origin was reassured by the authorities that she could mix Saxonian with whatever she knows of the local dialect and all would be alright

will there be problems resulting ? Yes, as many young Germans, particularily from north of the Taunus line will hesitate to take such a job in Switzerland, which may indeed result in a lack of Kindergärtnerinnen. To counteract, authorities already have clarified that Othmar Hitzfeld speaks a Swiss German dialect even if he himself possibly is not really aware of it
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