Foreigners not the target of the latest SVP posters - Page 3

hadih · #41 11.05.2011, 11:15

would you give reference for that chart of SVP popularity growth?

MrVertigo · #42 11.05.2011, 11:25

SVP is using symbols to communicate and give a message to the swiss society. As a political party SVP has a responsibility on what message it delivers. You can see it as a cartoon only of course but it means that you also see the "black sheep" poster as a cartoon only!
It's clearly not a simple cartoon. It says sexism and machism is good. It says "sexual violence" can be funny. It says male dominance over female.
If you read the poster carefully it has all the codes of pornography showing submissive female victim of sexual violence and praising male dominance.

As regarding EF threads, I don't think it's fair to compare ideas/discussions that hurt the feelings or the ethics of people with "brown sugar" or salary issues.

amogles · #43 11.05.2011, 11:35

	Quote:	Carlos R
	How do you know it is a "poor" cow? How do you know it is aggressive?

Being a cow from Wallis, it's a fighting cow. Cow fighting is the national sport of Wallis.

An aggressive fighting cow may be a scary thing, but it's nothing compared to a bull. I think that's one aspect of the message being communicated here.

#44 11.05.2011, 11:37

It is a bit much, even by SVP standards, I think they are only a short step from using swastikas, the usual black and red themed posters heavily imply neo-fascist sympathies. This one takes the biscuit, the party who's emblem is the female cow should complain, it's just not cricket.

amogles · #45 11.05.2011, 11:39

	Quote:	Carlos R
	You missed the bit where I said some people like it that way... It is, yet again, a load of brouhaha over an SVP poster/campaign - which as topics on EF, have about the same frequency as "can I live on 120k?", "where's the brown sugar?" and "what's the cost of living?" threads...

And it's also part of an anti SVP reflex that is so ingrained on the EF. No matter what poster they make, somebody is going to be offended. Quite often it's not the poster itself that offends as much as the SVP signature. I haven't seen the posters of the FDP or SP being analysed and scrutinised on this level yet ...

I am sure that if the roles were reversed, some more people here would actually find it funny.

So don't expect this to be the last thread along these lines.

Carlos R · #46 11.05.2011, 11:43

	Quote:	MrVertigo
	SVP is using symbols to communicate and give a message to the swiss society. As a political party SVP has a responsibility on what message it delivers. You can see it as a cartoon only of course but it means that you also see the "black sheep" poster as a cartoon only! It's clearly not a simple cartoon. It says sexism and machism is good. It says "sexual violence" can be funny. It says male dominance over female. If you read the poster carefully it has all the codes of pornography showing submissive female victim of sexual violence and praising male dominance.

What they said:

	Quote:	herc82
	You got to admit, they (SVP) do their job very well. Suddenly the discussion about politics is non-existant and the people only talk about the pictures instead of the underlying issues. Seems most people on here would fall for that too...

	Quote:	amogles
	And it's also part of an anti SVP reflex that is so ingrained on the EF. No matter what poster they make, somebody is going to be offended. Quite often it's not the poster itself that offends as much as the SVP signature. I haven't seen the posters of the FDP or SP being analysed and scrutinised on this level yet...

Ref:

	Quote:	MrVertigo
	As regarding EF threads, I don't think it's fair to compare ideas/discussions that hurt the feelings or the ethics of people with "brown sugar" or salary issues.

I compared the frequency not the content. My point being that almost every time they have a new campaign, we have the same discussions/threads on EF.

Herc82 put it much more eloquently than me.

#47 11.05.2011, 11:46

Don't be daft - if they come up with posters like that- it really shows their level of thinking

and if their supporters think it is OK, well... I rest my case.
If this type of poster really leads to an increase in their vote - I'll despair (as a Swiss).

lofty · #48 11.05.2011, 11:58

i spotted this one the other day, it's a few years old now

simpa · #49 11.05.2011, 12:01

I saw one day at this forum the propagation map of the foreigners at Zurich , could anyone share it once again ?

#50 11.05.2011, 12:41

I much prefer the look of the 'spotted' sheep- so that poster wouldn't work with me. In-breeding is never a good thing

Our joint families are among the most mixed in the world, and the genetic mix is very successful, thanks

lofty · #51 11.05.2011, 12:52

oops, i should have mentioned, the spotted sheep poster is satirical, the source no longer on line, this is the closest... http://www.i-cherubini.it/mauro/blog...-black-sheeps/

#52 11.05.2011, 12:57

	Quote:	hadih
	would you give reference for that chart of SVP popularity growth?

I guess you're asking me? When referring to a post a couple of pages back, please quote it.

Here's the table you're enquiring about:

	Quote:
	Here are the federal election (Federal Assembly of Switzerland) results for the last 40 years for the SVP/UDC and its antecedents. There's a definite trend there ... Election ... total votes ... % popular vote ... seats won 1971 ........ 217,908 ........ 11.1% ................. 23 1975 ........ 190,445 .......... 9.9% ................. 21 1979 ........ 210,425 ........ 11.6% ................. 23 1983 ........ 215,457 ........ 11.1% ................. 23 1987 ........ 211,535 ........ 11.0% ................. 25 1991 ........ 240,353 ........ 11.9% ................. 25 1995 ........ 280,420 ........ 14.9% ................. 29 1999 ........ 440,159 ........ 22.5% ................. 44 2003 ........ 561,817 ........ 26.6% ................. 55 2007 ........ 672,562 ........ 28.9% ................. 62

and here's the source.

amogles · #53 11.05.2011, 13:08

	Quote:
	Our joint families are among the most mixed in the world, and the genetic mix is very successful, thanks

Suggesting that some genetics is better than others sounds a bit racist to me.

It would imply that it is possible to breed a master race. Somebody else tried that not too long ago. He ended up shooting himself in his bunker.

Carlos R · #54 11.05.2011, 13:59

	Quote:	amogles
	Suggesting that some genetics is better than others sounds a bit racist to me. It would imply that it is possible to breed a master race. Somebody else tried that not too long ago. He ended up shooting himself in his bunker.

From a disease point of view, some genetic mixes are better than others... Look at any consanguineous population (or populations with high consanguinity, if you prefer) and you'll see high incidences of rare hereditary diseases brought about by too much marrying cousins off with other cousins.

However, saying that you can avoid diseases and be healthier by mixing gene pools does not equate to saying you can achieve perfection through genetic selection/breeding - look at dogs for example, there's lots of breeding, but who's to say that a pure-breed Alsatian/German Sheppard is better than a pure-breed Jack Russell? That's a matter of taste.

But from a health perspective - and I have to say that I don't know if this is true, i.e. I haven't seen any data on it - my impression has always been that mongrels outlive their pure-bred bretheren with fewer health complications.

The latter is the point which, I think, Odile was making. Hopefully no offence, Odile, at being called a mongrel!

Treverus · #55 11.05.2011, 14:06

	Quote:	amogles
	And it's also part of an anti SVP reflex that is so ingrained on the EF. No matter what poster they make, somebody is going to be offended. Quite often it's not the poster itself that offends as much as the SVP signature. I haven't seen the posters of the FDP or SP being analysed and scrutinised on this level yet ... I am sure that if the roles were reversed, some more people here would actually find it funny. So don't expect this to be the last thread along these lines.

Sorry, but isn't that obvious:

- the SVP campaigns with rather unfair methods against foreigners. Not in this one but pretty much all other campaigns of the last five years.
- The EF is a website full of foreigners living in Switzerland
=
the majority of us will not like the campaigns or the SVP.

And we are not discussing the other parties campaigns as they are comparatively boring. Some say they are ethical... I haven't seen anything produced by the FDP or SP that could offend anyone.

amogles · #56 11.05.2011, 14:15

	Quote:	Carlos R
	From a disease point of view, some genetic mixes are better than others... Look at any consanguineous population (or populations with high consanguinity, if you prefer) and you'll see high incidences of rare hereditary diseases brought about by too much marrying cousins off with other cousins. However, saying that avoiding diseases by mixing gene pools is not the same as saying you can achieve perfection through genetic selection/breeding - look at dogs for example, there's lots of breeding, but who's to say that a pure-breed Alsatian/German Sheppard is better than a pure bread Jack Russell? That's a matter of taste. But from a health perspective - and I have to say that I don't know if this is true, i.e. I haven't seen any data on it - my impression has always been that mongrels outlive their pure-bred bretheren with fewer health complications. The latter is the point which, I think, Odile was making. Hopefully no offence, Odile, at being called a mongrel!

Maybe the OP can explain, but my my reading of what she wrote was that being genetically mixed, they were (a) smarter/more intelligent/ more succesful economically and, (b) she is proud of it - or something like that - a statement that I consider to be racist as it links genetics to superiority.

Dog breeding is often about inbreeding as most dog races were only created by heavy and intentional inbreeding in the first place, and many highly bred dogs have an inclination to serious health problems. That is why cross breeds are almost invariably more succesful. Also in terms of botany, some of the greatest superweeds have been created by the unintentional cross breeding of natural weeds and highly bred crop plants with the result that, for example, the pesticide resistance that was bred or engineered into the crop suddenly ends up in the weed and hence the pesticide is rendered useless, with the additional problem that the weed grows faster than the crop and the farmer has no choice but to plough it all back in and start over.

Applying tis type of thinking to humans crosses a line in terms of ethics IMHO, as it creates a situation where some races or racial mixes are held superior to others. I don't think anybody should even be thinking of going down that path.

mirfield · #57 11.05.2011, 14:20

	Quote:	amogles
	That is why cross breeds are almost invariably more succesful.

I doubted you, but you have my sincere apologies. You were right.

#58 11.05.2011, 14:21

This looks like a good point to return to the topic -- the SVP's posters and their attitude to foreigners in Switzerland.

Let's steer clear of Godwin.

amogles · #59 11.05.2011, 14:23

	Quote:
	This looks like a good point to return to the topic -- the SVP's posters and their attitude to foreigners in Switzerland. Let's steer clear of Godwin.

and discuss cattle breeding?

#60 11.05.2011, 14:25

	Quote:	amogles
	and discuss cattle breeding?

Or we could take a leaf out of mirfield's book ...

	Quote:	mirfield
	I doubted you, but you have my sincere apologies. You were right.

... and see that together, we can defeat the SVP!