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  #81  
Old 17.05.2011, 18:32
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Re: Swiss nabbed at Phuket with 4kg cocaine

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Less community-destoying effects.??
Lung cancer, cigarette butts ruining the environment, second hand smoke. higher medical costs for smokers and society, etc. Seems pretty community destroying to me.
Um... Are you saying smoking is worse?

If so, think again and check some facts. Smoking is a boon for governments - more taxes, less cost (vs what smokers pay on taxes, a better ROI, if you will), die younger. Win-lose in favour of society. Unless you are a smoker.
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Old 17.05.2011, 18:34
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Re: Swiss nabbed at Phuket with 4kg cocaine

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Fair enough. As an additional fact food can also be a killer as well as being essential. And in the most part taking some currently illegal drugs occaisonally does you no more 'damage' than excessive drinking, smoking...
You raise an important comparison here Mike. Everybody says "Oh but food, alcohol,tobacco and prescription drugs are also dangerous." This is true. Almost anything can be abused. Even vitamins can do you harm if taken in excessive quantities.

But the difference is that the production and sale of food, tobacco, alcohol and prescription drugs are extremely tightly regulated in terms of labeling, purity, quality, additives, recommended dosage etc. The same standards of quality control aren't in place for the sale of illicit street drugs. We're talking about something that's produced illegally and trafficked illegally by unscrupulous suppliers and middlemen out to make maximum profit for themselves and who are answerable to no-one.

By the time these illicit drugs hit the street, users have no idea of how strong the dosage is or the level of impurities and adulteration with undesirable additives.
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  #83  
Old 17.05.2011, 18:41
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Re: Swiss nabbed at Phuket with 4kg cocaine

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Fair enough. As an additional fact food can also be a killer as well as being essential. And in the most part taking some currently illegal drugs occaisonally does you no more 'damage' than excessive drinking, smoking, eating loads of cakes and many other things we do as humans which the body can handle.

I am not saying taking drugs is healthy that is abusrd, but I do not think the example of someone with a destroyed nose is a fair portrayal of your average cocaine user.
it is an answer to those people here who have been saying it does no harm - no more no less, a picture speaks a thousand words. I am aware that people can kill themselves with food if they try hard enough - but food is still essential and your comparison void.

I say legalise the lot and tax it, control people being on it at work the same way as people wouldn't be allowed to be drunk at work, I have seen people high on this stuff in work and my ears have had to suffer their inflated egos. Were it legal I might be spared their boring and tedious company.
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  #84  
Old 17.05.2011, 18:42
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Re: Swiss nabbed at Phuket with 4kg cocaine

Most regular users who have plenty of cash use the same sellers all the time who sells the 'good' stuff to keep them happy ad coming back for more though.
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  #85  
Old 17.05.2011, 18:44
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Re: Swiss nabbed at Phuket with 4kg cocaine

You can live without drugs, alcohol, fags.

You cannot live without food.

False argument MikeB.
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  #86  
Old 17.05.2011, 18:47
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Re: Swiss nabbed at Phuket with 4kg cocaine

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Most if not all airlines flying to SE Asia give clear warnings ahead ( airports there also have clear notices ) to the effect that death is the penalty for drug trafficking. It is hard to plead ignorance - ignorantia legis neminem excusat
Yeap, undoubtedly, he is guilty as sin. Death penalty laws in certain SE Asian countries are very clear - at our immigration checkpoints, on immigration cards and even on planes - what a great welcome sometimes when you are about to land. Singapore, Malaysia and Thailand have never prevaricated about the penalties for drug trafficking.

Due to the proximity of these countries are to the Golden Triangle, drug fields and drug barons of Myanmar, they are all in an especially vulnerable position to prevent drugs from reaching their shores, but evidence is clear that the mandatory death penalty doesnt contribute the fight to do so because for every man caught and executed in the name of justice, the drug barons will find another ten desperate, despairing suckers.

To execute them doesnt solve the problem but to abolish the death penalty, will enlighten the tone of these countries judicial systems deep into the ranks of the civilised nations of our world - especially those 139 who've already abolished it.

Sounds like the royal pardon from the King is this man's only way out - it has been done before:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...on-707038.html
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  #87  
Old 17.05.2011, 18:56
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Re: Swiss nabbed at Phuket with 4kg cocaine

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Most regular users who have plenty of cash use the same sellers all the time who sells the 'good' stuff
Perhaps. But all that tells you is that rich, recreational users aren't the ones being exploited by the street gangs.
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  #88  
Old 17.05.2011, 18:58
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Re: Swiss nabbed at Phuket with 4kg cocaine

I am inclined to think that "diplomatic efforts" with the Thai government will secure him from the hangman's noose eventually. This might not be possible with say Malaysia or Singapore though with their tough stance.
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Old 17.05.2011, 19:31
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Re: Swiss nabbed at Phuket with 4kg cocaine

At least he wasn't caught in Singapore, with that amount he would be killed ten times over.

Personal point of view: each person has the right to screw his life in any way he chooses to. You want to drink 10 bottles per day? you get a discount. You want to sniff all the coke and flour in your city? be my guest. I would make everything legal and get a good chunk in taxes.

You mess with somebody else? That's a different story and I will bring the hammer down with my own hands.
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  #90  
Old 17.05.2011, 21:18
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Re: Swiss nabbed at Phuket with 4kg cocaine

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You raise an important comparison here Mike. Everybody says "Oh but food, alcohol,tobacco and prescription drugs are also dangerous." This is true. Almost anything can be abused. Even vitamins can do you harm if taken in excessive quantities.

But the difference is that the production and sale of food, tobacco, alcohol and prescription drugs are extremely tightly regulated in terms of labeling, purity, quality, additives, recommended dosage etc. The same standards of quality control aren't in place for the sale of illicit street drugs. We're talking about something that's produced illegally and trafficked illegally by unscrupulous suppliers and middlemen out to make maximum profit for themselves and who are answerable to no-one.

By the time these illicit drugs hit the street, users have no idea of how strong the dosage is or the level of impurities and adulteration with undesirable additives.
Agree completely. Full legalization, taxation and product control would be a massive step forward.
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  #91  
Old 17.05.2011, 21:38
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Re: Swiss nabbed at Phuket with 4kg cocaine

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it is an answer to those people here who have been saying it does no harm - no more no less, a picture speaks a thousand words. I am aware that people can kill themselves with food if they try hard enough - but food is still essential and your comparison void.

I say legalise the lot and tax it, control people being on it at work the same way as people wouldn't be allowed to be drunk at work, I have seen people high on this stuff in work and my ears have had to suffer their inflated egos. Were it legal I might be spared their boring and tedious company.
It has nothing to do with food being essential, I do not know where you are getting this from. It is to do with not taking any substance be it food, drink, drugs or anything to excess. And is entirely correct, although I doubt we will ever agree.
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Old 17.05.2011, 21:42
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Re: Swiss nabbed at Phuket with 4kg cocaine

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You can live without drugs, alcohol, fags.

You cannot live without food.

False argument MikeB.
Misses the point completely. It has nothing whatsoever to do with sustenance.
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Old 17.05.2011, 21:45
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Re: Swiss nabbed at Phuket with 4kg cocaine

Agreed. But it is possible to keep away from drugs or alcohol - but you can't keep away from food. the young person I know who was addicted to cocaine had to totally sever her links to all the friends she shared her addiction with to succeed in giving her new life a chance.
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Old 17.05.2011, 21:53
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Re: Swiss nabbed at Phuket with 4kg cocaine

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Um... Are you saying smoking is worse?

If so, think again and check some facts. Smoking is a boon for governments - more taxes, less cost (vs what smokers pay on taxes, a better ROI, if you will), die younger. Win-lose in favour of society. Unless you are a smoker.
So people in society are reduced to how much money can be made off them.? A society that encourages people to die earlier is not better off. There are health risks due to smoking that affect not only smokers but also,non smokers and the environment.
So Chuck,your argument is illogical.
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Old 17.05.2011, 21:54
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Re: Swiss nabbed at Phuket with 4kg cocaine

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Agree completely. Full legalization, taxation and product control would be a massive step forward.
How would that affect the black market, which exists even though tobacco is legal
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Old 17.05.2011, 21:55
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Re: Swiss nabbed at Phuket with 4kg cocaine

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Agreed. But it is possible to keep away from drugs or alcohol - but you can't keep away from food. the young person I know who was addicted to cocaine had to totally sever her links to all the friends she shared her addiction with.
Christ I give up. It has nothing to do with eating food. How much clearer can I make it ?

It is to do with abuse of substance versus relative light consumption of substance. Forget I said food. Pick something else, let's say alcohol because it's simpler. Drink one unit a week your fine. Drink 50 and your liver will eventually fail. Is that any better ?
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Old 17.05.2011, 21:59
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Re: Swiss nabbed at Phuket with 4kg cocaine

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It has nothing to do with food being essential, I do not know where you are getting this from. It is to do with not taking any substance be it food, drink, drugs or anything to excess. And is entirely correct, although I doubt we will ever agree.
I am taking issue with people saying that a certain substance is harmless - my view is an educated one and therefore I don't have to try to compare it to food or anything else, I can be objective and talk about the facts. I don't care if people want to delude themselves, but then why not do it quietly and not make such claims on a public forum, surely truth is worth more than that?
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Old 17.05.2011, 22:00
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Re: Swiss nabbed at Phuket with 4kg cocaine

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The comparison is that in your previous analogy (a once beautiful nose..) this is someone who has grossly over indulged in cocaine which has destroyed her nose. I am demonstrating that by taking far more of any substance, even as harmless as food, you will destroy yourself.

if you snort cocaine every day I am sure you will eventually hurt yourself, however if you have the odd occasional recreational line, I doubt you would. The point being that cocaine, (or a raft of other 'deadly' drugs) actually dont do that much harm if taken in moderation - the best example being MDMA which is taken by god knows how many young people at weekends all of whom remain solidly 'normal' I'm afraid.
What about harm to others that happens in the drug trade itself. Do users have no responsibility there? The drug can't be taken as if nothing happened in the process of getting the drug to the user. So it affects a lot of other people besides the user.
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Old 17.05.2011, 22:01
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Re: Swiss nabbed at Phuket with 4kg cocaine

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Christ I give up. It has nothing to do with eating food. How much clearer can I make it ?

It is to do with abuse of substance versus relative light consumption of substance. Forget I said food. Pick something else, let's say alcohol because it's simpler. Drink one unit a week your fine. Drink 50 and your liver will eventually fail. Is that any better ?
very, very slightly - but I have to point out that you were the person that made the comparison with food, if it now sounds silly to you then good!

Why compare it to anything when it can be taken at face value?
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Old 17.05.2011, 22:01
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Re: Swiss nabbed at Phuket with 4kg cocaine

Don't get angry- I said I agreed that it didn't have anything to do with food, eg that it is about quantities- and food having somehow become more than just, normal, food, for some people. What I am saying is that people with an addiction often have to keep away from the cause of addiction, for some time, forever. It is possible to cut yourself away from the people and places where cocaine, or even alcohol, is consumed- but this is much more complicated with food, as food is everywhere, and we need to eat some to survive. You don't need to be near coke, and to have some coke, to live, do you?

Some people with an addiction can't do just a little, just a sensible amount - that is the whole point.
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