Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Swiss politics/news  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 24.05.2011, 18:59
herc82's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,624
Groaned at 10 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 975 Times in 605 Posts
herc82 has a reputation beyond reputeherc82 has a reputation beyond reputeherc82 has a reputation beyond reputeherc82 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: SVP's latest initiative on migration threatens EU agreements

Quote:
View Post
I wonder what is the response from SVP regarding this:
http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/politics...l?cid=30304170

400'000 people short...SVP - hate to break your bubble but it's time to get real! ...but please continue with your foreigner hating propaganda, and please don't mention that the foreigners makes this country tick...
Yeah, because those are "real" numbers I bet that banking will have been outsourced from Switzerland by then...!
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 24.05.2011, 19:00
OSueco's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Aargau
Posts: 1,466
Groaned at 317 Times in 193 Posts
Thanked 1,265 Times in 624 Posts
OSueco has a reputation beyond reputeOSueco has a reputation beyond reputeOSueco has a reputation beyond reputeOSueco has a reputation beyond repute
Re: SVP's latest initiative on migration threatens EU agreements

Quote:
View Post
But this is exactly the point.
All those extra people are going to have to live somewhere and send their children to school somewhere and will need transport and hospitals and what have you. For you and me that means higher rents, more congestion, more pollution, higher food prices, less green space etc. So the legitimate question is, is that projected growth really good news, or should policy makes be seeking ways of permitting the economy to prosper without calling for population growth (independently of where those people are coming from and whether or not they can or should integrate etc).

Or else can Switzerland maybe buy a piece of France or Germany to grow into?
It's the market that regulates the whole thing, you can't stop growth, impossible...Switzerland acted way too slow in the past...and now they have to deal with it...so...selber schuld!!!

It's time for the housewives to go to work...
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 24.05.2011, 19:01
OSueco's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Aargau
Posts: 1,466
Groaned at 317 Times in 193 Posts
Thanked 1,265 Times in 624 Posts
OSueco has a reputation beyond reputeOSueco has a reputation beyond reputeOSueco has a reputation beyond reputeOSueco has a reputation beyond repute
Re: SVP's latest initiative on migration threatens EU agreements

Quote:
View Post
Yeah, because those are "real" numbers I bet that banking will have been outsourced from Switzerland by then...!
probably not, but it's an indication/trend...the IT sector claims that they have a shortage of 35'000...how many IT eng. do Switzerland graduate each year? 150...200? Good luck with that one...but please SVP make it harder for Indians to come here...morons...
Reply With Quote
This user groans at OSueco for this post:
  #44  
Old 24.05.2011, 19:04
OSueco's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Aargau
Posts: 1,466
Groaned at 317 Times in 193 Posts
Thanked 1,265 Times in 624 Posts
OSueco has a reputation beyond reputeOSueco has a reputation beyond reputeOSueco has a reputation beyond reputeOSueco has a reputation beyond repute
Re: SVP's latest initiative on migration threatens EU agreements

Quote:
View Post
So: Why change it then?
Ask SVP that...
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 24.05.2011, 19:04
evilshell's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: UK, formerly Basel
Posts: 3,347
Groaned at 97 Times in 81 Posts
Thanked 3,093 Times in 1,341 Posts
evilshell has a reputation beyond reputeevilshell has a reputation beyond reputeevilshell has a reputation beyond reputeevilshell has a reputation beyond reputeevilshell has a reputation beyond reputeevilshell has a reputation beyond repute
Re: SVP's latest initiative on migration threatens EU agreements

Not only will it be an issue for foreigners in Switzerland should this nonsense pass, but also for Swiss citizens living in the EU. I wonder how the SVP feels about them - wanting them to come home, or perhaps glad they're gone?
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 24.05.2011, 19:09
OSueco's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Aargau
Posts: 1,466
Groaned at 317 Times in 193 Posts
Thanked 1,265 Times in 624 Posts
OSueco has a reputation beyond reputeOSueco has a reputation beyond reputeOSueco has a reputation beyond reputeOSueco has a reputation beyond repute
Re: SVP's latest initiative on migration threatens EU agreements

Quote:
View Post
It's only the SP, SVP and Greens that really make their agenda crystal clear in Switzerland, it's time for the others to step up to the plate if they want my vote this fall.
SVP only makes clear what they do NOT want, they seldom come with anything constructive...for instance how are SVP going to solve the incredible shortage of work force? what is their plan? Say "NO" to everything...yes that is progress...

They were morons, they are morons and they will always continue to be...
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank OSueco for this useful post:
  #47  
Old 24.05.2011, 19:11
OSueco's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Aargau
Posts: 1,466
Groaned at 317 Times in 193 Posts
Thanked 1,265 Times in 624 Posts
OSueco has a reputation beyond reputeOSueco has a reputation beyond reputeOSueco has a reputation beyond reputeOSueco has a reputation beyond repute
Re: SVP's latest initiative on migration threatens EU agreements

Quote:
View Post
Not only will it be an issue for foreigners in Switzerland should this nonsense pass, but also for Swiss citizens living in the EU. I wonder how the SVP feels about them - wanting them to come home, or perhaps glad they're gone?
like they care....
I heard that 700'000 Swiss are living abroad...that could solve the problem with the shortage of work force, but they probably left for a reason...
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 24.05.2011, 19:25
evilshell's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: UK, formerly Basel
Posts: 3,347
Groaned at 97 Times in 81 Posts
Thanked 3,093 Times in 1,341 Posts
evilshell has a reputation beyond reputeevilshell has a reputation beyond reputeevilshell has a reputation beyond reputeevilshell has a reputation beyond reputeevilshell has a reputation beyond reputeevilshell has a reputation beyond repute
Re: SVP's latest initiative on migration threatens EU agreements

Quote:
View Post
like they care....
I heard that 700'000 Swiss are living abroad...that could solve the problem with the shortage of work force, but they probably left for a reason...
Ah, but the Swiss abroad can - and do - vote, so the SVP should care about them.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 24.05.2011, 19:38
Lejoker's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 576
Groaned at 20 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 285 Times in 181 Posts
Lejoker has no particular reputation at present
Re: SVP's latest initiative on migration threatens EU agreements

Quote:
View Post
Ah, but the Swiss abroad can - and do - vote, so the SVP should care about them.
More foreigners flock here than do the Swiss out of here...so that should negligible.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 24.05.2011, 19:39
OSueco's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Aargau
Posts: 1,466
Groaned at 317 Times in 193 Posts
Thanked 1,265 Times in 624 Posts
OSueco has a reputation beyond reputeOSueco has a reputation beyond reputeOSueco has a reputation beyond reputeOSueco has a reputation beyond repute
Re: SVP's latest initiative on migration threatens EU agreements

Quote:
View Post
Ah, but the Swiss abroad can - and do - vote, so the SVP should care about them.
... the word care and SVP in the same sentence...
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 24.05.2011, 19:39
Lejoker's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 576
Groaned at 20 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 285 Times in 181 Posts
Lejoker has no particular reputation at present
Re: SVP's latest initiative on migration threatens EU agreements

Quote:
View Post
probably not, but it's an indication/trend...the IT sector claims that they have a shortage of 35'000...how many IT eng. do Switzerland graduate each year? 150...200? Good luck with that one...but please SVP make it harder for Indians to come here...morons...
Who claims the 35'000 shortage, can you quote?

Btw, we're having the same debate in the US...
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 24.05.2011, 19:45
OSueco's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Aargau
Posts: 1,466
Groaned at 317 Times in 193 Posts
Thanked 1,265 Times in 624 Posts
OSueco has a reputation beyond reputeOSueco has a reputation beyond reputeOSueco has a reputation beyond reputeOSueco has a reputation beyond repute
Re: SVP's latest initiative on migration threatens EU agreements

Quote:
View Post
Who claims the 35'000 shortage, can you quote?

Btw, we're having the same debate in the US...
I saw it on TV, but I found this article:

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/business...l?cid=28833064
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 24.05.2011, 20:40
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 18,978
Groaned at 332 Times in 257 Posts
Thanked 11,715 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
View Post
yes its tough on the progressives. But Switzerland is doing quite well compared to its neighbours, therefore it must be doing something right.
Switzerland is doing right a lot of things, in spite of the SVPler declaring otherwise. This is where they contradict themselves. The complain about Switzerland doing everything wrong in the morning and then say in the afternoon that Switzerland is doing everything right.

Switzerland is doing right thanks to the mix of political forces. This is tough on the SVPlers. They for example dislike the fact that the SP has two members in the federal government and they just one. But they most likely will get a second seat in the next Federal Council elections which most likely will result in the ousting of Widmer-Schlumpf and the entry of a second SVPler(in) .

Quote:
View Post
But this is exactly the point.
All those extra people are going to have to live somewhere and send their children to school somewhere and will need transport and hospitals and what have you. For you and me that means higher rents, more congestion, more pollution, higher food prices, less green space etc. So the legitimate question is, is that projected growth really good news, or should policy makes be seeking ways of permitting the economy to prosper without calling for population growth (independently of where those people are coming from and whether or not they can or should integrate etc).

Or else can Switzerland maybe buy a piece of France or Germany to grow into?
Well, I am strictly in favour of Switzerland renting the Southern Alsace for 499 years and Southern Baden-Württemberg for the same time Jokes aside, many Swiss people while still working at the same place as before have their lodgings in neighbouring "Euroland"

Quote:
View Post
I honestly don't know why we stay in a country that makes it very clear they want us out.

i think i'm going to ask my employer for a transfer and leave this place very soon.
This country has not declared anything thelike. Just look at what the Swiss Economics Minister Schneider-Ammann declared right yesterday at a speech in Zurich.

Quote:
View Post
Yeah, because those are "real" numbers I bet that banking will have been outsourced from Switzerland by then...!
You are not up-do-date. Banking started to get outsourced in the 1980ies.

What matters in Switzerland is the export-industry (NOT the heavy industry which is gradually disappearing) and the inbound-tourism. And the various parts of the "service-industry" (transports, hotels, restaurant, conference-centres, insurance-companies, etc).

Quote:
View Post
It's the market that regulates the whole thing, you can't stop growth, impossible...Switzerland acted way too slow in the past...and now they have to deal with it...so...selber schuld!!!

It's time for the housewives to go to work...
Sorry, but the housewives have gone to work 30 years ago. Here in this apartment-block the only "housewives" not going working are above 65 years of age

Quote:
View Post
probably not, but it's an indication/trend...the IT sector claims that they have a shortage of 35'000...how many IT eng. do Switzerland graduate each year? 150...200? Good luck with that one...but please SVP make it harder for Indians to come here...morons...
The number of "graduates" is declining for the simple reason that the population is declining. AND

A) the "babyboomers", which means people born between 1945 and 1965 are now gradually entering retirement age, which means that a vast bulk of the population in 10 years will be retirees
B) the generation born AFTER 1965 is far smaller in numbers and so hardly can replace the outgoing generation
C) the SVPlers talk about that "the Swiss" ought to have more children, but fail to explain why their party members have less than two children or none at all

Quote:
View Post
More foreigners flock here than do the Swiss out of here...so that should negligible.
-
This is true, HOWEVER the Swiss-abroad are important in all elections and votes, and therefore courted by all parties.

Quote:
View Post
Who claims the 35'000 shortage, can you quote?

Btw, we're having the same debate in the US...

as outlined above, the question is not whether it is 7000 or 12000 or 25000 or 35000 or even 40000, the point is that the change of generation within the coming two decades means a sharp reduction of the workforce by numbers

Last edited by jrspet; 24.05.2011 at 21:11. Reason: Merging of successive posts
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Wollishofener for this useful post:
  #54  
Old 24.05.2011, 21:45
Lex's Avatar
Lex Lex is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Zug
Posts: 312
Groaned at 8 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 257 Times in 138 Posts
Lex has a reputation beyond reputeLex has a reputation beyond reputeLex has a reputation beyond reputeLex has a reputation beyond repute
Re: SVP's latest initiative on migration threatens EU agreements

Quote:
View Post
probably not, but it's an indication/trend...the IT sector claims that they have a shortage of 35'000...how many IT eng. do Switzerland graduate each year? 150...200? Good luck with that one...but please SVP make it harder for Indians to come here...morons...
there is NO shortage - yes certain skills in niche areas without a doubt, some other areas also, but thats it. Those numbers are just plucked from the air then put through computer models by academics justifying their existence. The politicians then ask the media to latch on to it, so that crazy policies can be put through with little to no debate.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Lex for this useful post:
This user groans at Lex for this post:
  #55  
Old 24.05.2011, 21:50
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Brussels, former Geneva area
Posts: 320
Groaned at 24 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 328 Times in 140 Posts
belgo has an excellent reputationbelgo has an excellent reputationbelgo has an excellent reputationbelgo has an excellent reputation
Re: SVP's latest initiative on migration threatens EU agreements

UDC is very good in playing on people's fear of foreigners and I am growing a bit tired of it. It would not be bad if someone would come out saying something positive about foreigners for a change. At the end of the day, in my humble opinion, Switzerland's success is based to a large extent on its capacity in attracting qualified foreigners to do all kinds of job needed in Switzerland. Without foreigners, Switzerland can close its hospitals, restaurants, public transport, and a lot of its companies tomorrow if they were not able to tap on these resources. Yes we come here because it's attractive to work but it would even be nicer to feel a bit welcome. I don't want to have to worry in future whether they will renew my permit as an EU citizen.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank belgo for this useful post:
  #56  
Old 24.05.2011, 21:55
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 32,512
Groaned at 2,578 Times in 1,840 Posts
Thanked 39,650 Times in 18,688 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: SVP's latest initiative on migration threatens EU agreements

Quote:
View Post
housewives have gone to work 30 years ago. Here in this apartment-block the only "housewives" not going working are above 65 years of age
Or live in Ticino.

Most families here are single income.

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 24.05.2011, 23:40
OSueco's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Aargau
Posts: 1,466
Groaned at 317 Times in 193 Posts
Thanked 1,265 Times in 624 Posts
OSueco has a reputation beyond reputeOSueco has a reputation beyond reputeOSueco has a reputation beyond reputeOSueco has a reputation beyond repute
Re: SVP's latest initiative on migration threatens EU agreements

Quote:
View Post
there is NO shortage - yes certain skills in niche areas without a doubt, some other areas also, but thats it. Those numbers are just plucked from the air then put through computer models by academics justifying their existence. The politicians then ask the media to latch on to it, so that crazy policies can be put through with little to no debate.

maybe I can't tell, I just reported from infoswiss, do not how you can be so sure though? Is it your opinion or you have some source?

I think comments like yours is the reason why Switzerland is not self-supported in terms of sufficient qualified labor...

Anyhow, I work in a quite big global company, and we definitely having problem finding qualified labor...the demand is really huge...and I guess an IT engineer does not have to justify his existence, its their time of age...
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 24.05.2011, 23:45
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 18,978
Groaned at 332 Times in 257 Posts
Thanked 11,715 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: SVP's latest initiative on migration threatens EU agreements

Quote:
View Post
UDC is very good in playing on people's fear of foreigners and I am growing a bit tired of it. It would not be bad if someone would come out saying something positive about foreigners for a change. At the end of the day, in my humble opinion, Switzerland's success is based to a large extent on its capacity in attracting qualified foreigners to do all kinds of job needed in Switzerland. Without foreigners, Switzerland can close its hospitals, restaurants, public transport, and a lot of its companies tomorrow if they were not able to tap on these resources. Yes we come here because it's attractive to work but it would even be nicer to feel a bit welcome. I don't want to have to worry in future whether they will renew my permit as an EU citizen.
Do you have a problem with grammar ? Why "would" ? It has been in the news all over the place
http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/zuerich/...story/24809432
http://www.appenzellerzeitung.ch/imp...119548,2571788
http://www.limmattalerzeitung.ch/lim...rern-108556290
Zürich City President Corine Mauch declares
- Zürich profits from immigration
- She thanked, in a speech in the government building of the City of Zurich, the first generation of immigrants from Italy and Spain for their performance
- She made it clear that a good part of the quality of life in Zurich, of the economic strength of Zürich, and of the vitality of Zürich is thanks to those people who more than 40 years ago immigrated to Zürich from Italy and Spain
- She remarked that these immigrants now are a well integrated and appreciated part of society
- She told the invited guests of Italian and Spanish origin "We eat better, have nicer clothes, spend more time outdoors, are more creative and know now how to celebrate thanks to you. Zürich has become a more lively place thanks to you" culminating in the statement "Siamo tutti Zurighesi"


> Whether a city president in about 2025 will say the same about the immigrants from ex-Yugoslavia cannot yet be said, BUT is most likely, sure is that the City President in 2025 WILL say the same about the Tamils.

Last edited by Wollishofener; 25.05.2011 at 00:08.
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 24.05.2011, 23:50
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 18,978
Groaned at 332 Times in 257 Posts
Thanked 11,715 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: SVP's latest initiative on migration threatens EU agreements

Quote:
View Post
Or live in Ticino.

Most families here are single income.

Tom
The Ticino is romantic ! and a bit of oldworldliness
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Wollishofener for this useful post:
  #60  
Old 25.05.2011, 00:05
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 18,978
Groaned at 332 Times in 257 Posts
Thanked 11,715 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: SVP's latest initiative on migration threatens EU agreements

Quote:
View Post
maybe I can't tell, I just reported from infoswiss, do not how you can be so sure though? Is it your opinion or you have some source?

I think comments like yours is the reason why Switzerland is not self-supported in terms of sufficient qualified labor...

Anyhow, I work in a quite big global company, and we definitely having problem finding qualified labor...the demand is really huge...and I guess an IT engineer does not have to justify his existence, its their time of age...
Switzerland for decades "produced" more qualified labour than non-qualified labour, but if you realize that Zurich, Basel and Geneva together with even including outsuburbs less than 3 mio. people combined have MORE corporate HQs than Paris, you will realize that Switzerland needs foreigners also on the top. And the IT industry grew enormously exactly at a time when the number of young people started to decline, to decline seriously.

Your company may be big and global, but it for sure did not come to Switzerland due to millions of people out of jobs. In other words, should the SVP with an initiative succeed in heavily curtailing immigration, your company had no alternative than to shift activities to elsewhere.

Once again, I work in a small company where we three years ago, as no CH successor was around, sold a part of our activities to Britain. And then had to start to reorganize the other parts, which is not so easy. And when we will be through and up again, we in the end will have to sell out, possibly to one of the German companies active here around. Lack of qualified people ? Not really no, but A) qualified people find easier and more profitable activities .... and B) qualified people after 1955-60 simply were not born. You cannot employ people NOT born ! People NOT born cannot take over small companies !
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Wollishofener for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Please support SVP's Volkabefragung, (questionnaire) Panther Swiss politics/news 43 18.08.2010 16:59
Reciprocal agreements- A Farce? pino32 Complaints corner 21 09.07.2010 09:02
Leaseback Agreements Ed Pummelon Finance/banking/taxation 12 03.03.2010 09:04
old man threatens to hit my 3 year old! twiglet Complaints corner 106 16.11.2008 12:43
Venezuela threatens to cut US oil Castro International affairs/politics 3 02.03.2008 22:48


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 23:54.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0