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Old 23.05.2011, 21:14
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SVP's latest initiative on migration threatens EU agreements

Toni Brunner said that the SVP wanted to achieve controlled migration ie along the lines of "control, limit, select".

Immigrants would thus have a job offer from Switzerland, can secure their own existence and be capable of integration. At the legislative level, the SVP could introduce a points system, as suggested by Lukas Reimann SVP-National with a parliamentary motion even though any restriction of immigration is contrary to free movement agreements with the EU.

More Swissinfo DE / Suedostschweiz DE

Crude EN translations here and here respectively

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Old 23.05.2011, 23:40
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Re: SVP's latest initiative on migration threatens EU agreements

It's exactly what it says...just talk.
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Old 24.05.2011, 00:07
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Re: SVP's latest initiative on migration threatens EU agreements

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It's exactly what it says...just talk.
I don't think so.

It has been for a while on their agenda to work towards a popular vote on the 'Personenfreizuegigkeit' (free movement of people in EU).

We will see after the elections in autumn, if they have the electoral backup to take things further.

Unfortunately, I think that's where it is heading to.
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Old 24.05.2011, 00:26
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Re: SVP's latest initiative on migration threatens EU agreements

As the EU and eurozone head towards 'toast', expect more attention on these initiatives. More than just talk IMO.
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Old 24.05.2011, 00:42
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Re: SVP's latest initiative on migration threatens EU agreements

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I don't think so.

It has been for a while on their agenda to work towards a popular vote on the 'Personenfreizuegigkeit' (free movement of people in EU).

We will see after the elections in autumn, if they have the electoral backup to take things further.

Unfortunately, I think that's where it is heading to.
Well, I do believe in democracy and thus in the freedom for people to choose what's best for them.
If they think that EU migrant workers bring more harm than good, then so be it!
Let the Romans decide for Rome :-(
Nonetheless, I don't see what they're going to replace this huge influx of EU migrants with?!? Asylum seekers?!?
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Old 24.05.2011, 00:48
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Re: SVP's latest initiative on migration threatens EU agreements

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Well, I do believe in democracy and thus in the freedom for people to choose what's best for them.
If they think that EU migrant workers bring more harm than good, then so be it!
Let the Romans decide for Rome :-(
Nonetheless, I don't see what they're going to replace this huge influx of EU migrants with?!? Asylum seekers?!?
Well, if it'll end up anything like the "Ausschaffungsinitiative" they will win the vote but things will be so complex legally beyond that that there will never be a full implementation.
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Old 24.05.2011, 00:49
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Re: SVP's latest initiative on migration threatens EU agreements

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Well, I do believe in democracy and thus in the freedom for people to choose what's best for them.
If they think that EU migrant workers bring more harm than good, then so be it!
Let the Romans decide for Rome :-(
Nonetheless, I don't see what they're going to replace this huge influx of EU migrants with?!? Asylum seekers?!?
there are highly qualified people on the Asian/North-American labour market who don't get in due to current quota restrictions...
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Old 24.05.2011, 01:24
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Re: SVP's latest initiative on migration threatens EU agreements

I think it's a classic trade-off situation.
Economic growth/progress/gov. budget/AHV financing vs. housing prices/overcrowding/lacking infrastructure/salary pressure/environment and so on...
Regardless whether people agree or disagree with the notion of controlling immigration these trade-offs are real and will only get more pressing as immigration accelerates. Switzerland grows very rapidly at the moment, this has advantages and disadvantages.

From a purely subjective point of view the development is great: More international job opportunities for me, lower taxes (due to high qualifications and therefore salaries of recent immigrants), more international cities, more bars/entertainment/cafés etc.... And yet I agree with the notion that Switzerland is a small country that cannot continue to grow at this pace forever.

I am not sure where I stand with this, but I'd avoid labeling such ideas as populist or even xenophobic, it's just a political decision of which above mentioned factors you prioritize.
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Old 24.05.2011, 01:29
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Re: SVP's latest initiative on migration threatens EU agreements

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there are highly qualified people on the Asian/North-American labour market who don't get in due to current quota restrictions...
I am pretty sure that the SVP does not want more Asians in Switzerland. Or anybody else who looks or talk differently.

The trick is simple: The SVP will start a campaign. The vote will be on a suggestion that is impossible to implement while staying part of Schengen.

What happens?
1) The SVP wins the vote.
1a) the law will not really be implemented based on some loopholes in the unclear text of the Vorlage - some thing that will for example happen with the Swiss German for Kindergarden vote in Zurich.
Result: The SVP can for years point at the political enemy and call them undemocratic. I personally believe that the text for the Kindergarden stuff was weak ON PURPOSE...

1b) it will be implemented and the Schengen treaty cancelled. Many foreigners loser their jobs, the Swiss economy will decrease, many Swiss will lose their jobs, taxes go up, real estate bubble bursts. Which in turn makes more people vote for populists.
Result: The SVP wins and can fingerpoint at the others in power for not being "economy-friendly" and have caused the troubles. Typically especially the SP.

2) The SVP loses the vote
2b) In order to make them lose the vote do the other parties make a rubbish counter offer that does something else "against foreigners".
Result: The SVP can point at it and say "we finally made the others acknowledge that foreigners are a problem". They win.
2c) they simply lose.

I'd say the chances that the result will be good for the power hungry SVP politicians is fairly high. So high that they might use this as their main theme for the upcoming parliamentary elections...
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Old 24.05.2011, 02:33
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Re: SVP's latest initiative on migration threatens EU agreements

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I
I'd avoid labeling such ideas as populist or even xenophobic, it's just a political decision of which above mentioned factors you prioritize.
I totally agree; a growing number of voters are ethnically mixed Swiss (like my family). I will do my best to ensure that we use our vote purely to prioritize what is politically correct for Switzerland. Switzerland is for those who commit to the Swiss ideal of culturally enhanced profit, support for tradition of neutrality and defense of human rights. Das Boot is Voll. I think that perhaps the Swiss should limit immigration while simultaneously awarding everyone born in Switzerland with Swiss nationality. Then they should bring the naturalization regulations into line with the rest of Europe.

Until such time, Switzerland will never curb their import of expertise, or desist from stemming the flow of unprofitable immigrants. It is not populist or xenophobic- it's just politics!
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Old 24.05.2011, 02:43
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Re: SVP's latest initiative on migration threatens EU agreements

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Das Boot is Voll.
Do you actually know the entire meaning of this statement? Not just the literal translation, but the values it carries?

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Das_Boot_ist_voll

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082095/

In short:
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Old 24.05.2011, 03:42
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Re: SVP's latest initiative on migration threatens EU agreements

Take your pick I picked it up in Switzerland about 20 years ago discussing immigration with a Swiss. But I think the saying goes way back...

Here for instance:

http://repository.forcedmigration.or...p?pid=fmo:1262

"Das Boot ist Voll" September 1994
302839098

Quote:
The problems of asylum in Germany today reflect the changes to the situation which
have occurred since the war and especially in the last ten years. The post war situation
was a reflection of the right to asylum granted in Article 16a of the original
Grundgesetz and the way in which the flow of asylum-seekers into Germany was not
properly controlled , so that when the numbers increased dramatically from the late
1980s the Government was unable to cope with the huge influx .
It was in the context of the flooding of Germany by asylum-seekers that the
Government took action. In 1993 the Basic Right to asylum was qualified in an
attempt to reduce the numbers of asylum-seekers in Germany without altering the
principle that the politically persecuted should find asylum in Germany. Together with
the Law governing the asylum process which had been passed in 1992 and the newly
reformed Aliens Law, a new law concerning asylum-seeker benefit was introduced to
complete the new framework . The framework is designed to save the Government
money and to prevent economic immigrants gaining residence permits by becoming
asylum-seekers.
You see it's just economics! Isn't it?
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Old 24.05.2011, 03:52
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Re: SVP's latest initiative on migration threatens EU agreements

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Do you actually know the entire meaning of this statement? Not just the literal translation, but the values it carries?

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Das_Boot_ist_voll

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082095/

In short:
Thanks for the recommendation---that film is going on my Netflix queue.
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Old 24.05.2011, 04:00
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Re: SVP's latest initiative on migration threatens EU agreements

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Until such time, Switzerland will never curb their import of expertise, or desist from stemming the flow of unprofitable immigrants. It is not populist or xenophobic- it's just politics!
“democracy operates so that politicians who simply want to hold public office end up by doing things the people want” Tullock, G. (2006), The Vote Motive
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Old 24.05.2011, 05:25
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Re: SVP's latest initiative on migration threatens EU agreements

for those who don't get my sarcasm I had better reveal myself fully for fear of becoming labelled as a dwarf or troll or whatever.
Yes, I saw the film years ago thank goodness for Swiss like writer Haesler. He also wrote about Frontismus during the second world war- a movement which I think got 26% vote in Schaffhausen during WWII. (which is of course Blocher's kanton).

I don't blame the Swiss for complaining that Switzerland has had its share of foreigners, but so has every other country. To me Switzerland is just the last of many countries to go through the motions.

I think that most Swiss aim to balance economic prosperity with humanitarian responsibilities. But to me Blocher is just a manipulator, he uses scare tactics to maintain economic control, not for the ordinary Swiss person, but for himself and his ilk. Blocher is still the party strategist.
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Old 24.05.2011, 10:29
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Re: SVP's latest initiative on migration threatens EU agreements

Two things folks:

1) Swiss people get to vote on what we want as our laws and not what any specific political party feels like spearheading their electoral campaigns with.

2) In case no one had noticed, Switzerland remains independent and not a part of the EU whatever bilaterals have been signed.

Seems to me that many on this thread are looking for a groovy new anti-SVP argument when there really isn't anything new to be bitter about. I'd rather read something about how the other parties like the CVP and FDP are going to step up to the challenge and start bringing some real policies to the table rather than waffling confusion and fielding charisma lacking politicians. It's only the SP, SVP and Greens that really make their agenda crystal clear in Switzerland, it's time for the others to step up to the plate if they want my vote this fall.
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Old 24.05.2011, 10:54
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Re: SVP's latest initiative on migration threatens EU agreements

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for those who don't get my sarcasm I had better reveal myself fully for fear of becoming labelled as a dwarf or troll or whatever.
Yes, I should ignore you. But this is not sarcasm, it is ignorance: "Das Boot ist voll" stands for a not so nice part of Swiss history - In 1942 was the government apparently well aware what was happening to Jews in Germany. They still decided to block Jewish refugees from entering Switzerland. They allowed "political refugees" to come, but if your only reason was "racial", you were refused. (Except of Geneva, where the citizens apparently did not give a lot about the politics made in Berne). The only ones who use the term today are pretty hardcore neonazis. Using the term right next to the Swiss value of human rights is... probably not really funny for many survivors or their families.

I know that I cannot really change you, but anyway: Being German, I try my best to be a bit careful and not hurt someones feelings in the area. I know when I can make a Nazi joke and when not. You are yourself from an immigration background and from one where your ex-government today threatens Israel with "extinction". Maybe you should think a bit more before posting ignorant shit like that as well. But I guess you will rather reply with a collection of completely off-topic youtube links...
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Old 24.05.2011, 10:55
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Re: SVP's latest initiative on migration threatens EU agreements

Interesting is that today a study on Security in Switzerland has been published. The research was done by ETHZ center for security.
Main findings:
- only 37% of Swiss want a closer political partnership with EU
- only 19% think Switzerland should join EU
- 77% want more economical collaboration with EU
- 77% think that Switzerland should be more politically and economically independent.

So SVP is surfing on the right wave for sure. What I really don't understand is why SVP people like Freysinger need to invite people like Gert Wilders in the Wallis for a deep discussion on Islam in Europe? They plan to show his "movie" Fitna. I am sorry to see how he traps people with such manipulations.
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Old 24.05.2011, 10:57
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Re: SVP's latest initiative on migration threatens EU agreements

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Two things folks:

1) Swiss people get to vote on what we want as our laws and not what any specific political party feels like spearheading their electoral campaigns with.

2) In case no one had noticed, Switzerland remains independent and not a part of the EU whatever bilaterals have been signed.

Seems to me that many on this thread are looking for a groovy new anti-SVP argument when there really isn't anything new to be bitter about. I'd rather read something about how the other parties like the CVP and FDP are going to step up to the challenge and start bringing some real policies to the table rather than waffling confusion and fielding charisma lacking politicians. It's only the SP, SVP and Greens that really make their agenda crystal clear in Switzerland, it's time for the others to step up to the plate if they want my vote this fall.
From today's newspapers it looks like the FDP are going to follow the same boring route as the SVP with anti Ausländer initiatives. Would be nice to find a party that has positive policies rather than simply wanting to ban stuff.......
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Old 24.05.2011, 11:45
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Re: SVP's latest initiative on migration threatens EU agreements

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It's only the SP, SVP and Greens that really make their agenda crystal clear in Switzerland
The Lega does too, but they are only in Ticino.

Tom
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