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  #421  
Old 03.06.2015, 12:46
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Re: Mr Joseph Sepp Bellend Blatter - FIFA corruption

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I imagine it would be easier, and more certain, to extradite the criminals from Zurich to the USA, than from other countries where there is no treaty,

so there are quite a few countries where millionaires are safe from US justice.
I don't think it was just a case of having an extradition treaty with the US, which is obviously important. Having as many in one place as possible means that they should be extradited as a group. This must make things a lot easier than having to deal with several separate countries, some which could be very difficult.
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  #422  
Old 03.06.2015, 13:29
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Re: Mr Joseph Sepp Bellend Blatter - FIFA corruption

The one and only original Blatter trough waiting to be filled!

Last edited by marton; 13.11.2020 at 21:45.
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  #423  
Old 03.06.2015, 13:59
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Re: Mr Joseph Sepp Bellend Blatter - FIFA corruption

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The one and only original Blatter trough waiting to be filled!
Nice one. It looks like it is compatible with all currencies! :-)


So the SAFA paid $10 million to assist the Caribbean as it has more Disaporan African people than anywhere out side of Africa hmmm okay I can sort of buy that but the reason given that it was specifically to Jack Warner and not CONCACAF was because he (JW) was president of two similar football organisations which made it simpler.


In the SA conference Q&A the Sport's Minister just let slip that FIFA's French secretary general Jerome Valcke is married to a South African woman and so he also has SA citizenship. Hmmm intriguing.
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  #424  
Old 03.06.2015, 14:09
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Re: Mr Joseph Sepp Bellend Blatter - FIFA corruption

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So the SAFA paid $10 million to assist the Caribbean ...
Why are people making a fuss about such trivial amounts? $10 million wouldn't buy you many votes in the USA.

Crisis? What is crisis?
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  #425  
Old 03.06.2015, 14:18
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Re: Mr Joseph Sepp Bellend Blatter - FIFA corruption

Still haven't heard what crime Blatter committed, but that's fine. I understand he resigned because he's become a distraction. Great, now FIFA should be able to restructure unencumbered, one would think.

I think a huge part of the problem here is FIFA's non-Profit status. Many other non-Profits run into these conundrum. To think that all that money goes untaxed, and they built up what they call a "reserve", which is really profit.

I think FIFA should just restructure as a profit corporation with shareholders, pay taxes, and so they can properly manage all these dealings. Otherwise, they'll be back to their old tricks anyway.
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  #426  
Old 03.06.2015, 15:13
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Re: Mr Joseph Sepp Bellend Blatter - FIFA corruption

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Still haven't heard what crime Blatter committed, but that's fine. I understand he resigned because he's become a distraction. Great, now FIFA should be able to restructure unencumbered, one would think.

I think a huge part of the problem here is FIFA's non-Profit status. Many other non-Profits run into these conundrum. To think that all that money goes untaxed, and they built up what they call a "reserve", which is really profit.

I think FIFA should just restructure as a profit corporation with shareholders, pay taxes, and so they can properly manage all these dealings. Otherwise, they'll be back to their old tricks anyway.
As if for-profit had no corruption issues

However, I agree that their "Verein" status should be revoked - FIFA acts like a for-profit organisation, thus should be treated as such.

In my mind it doesn't matter at this point if Blatter actually is clean or not. He's been president for 16 years now, more than enough time to implement structures that at least inhibit corruption. Yet it seems to only get worse.

He either failed or is active part of the problem. Time for him to assume responsibility and to leave.
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  #427  
Old 04.06.2015, 01:26
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Re: Mr Joseph Sepp Bellend Blatter - FIFA corruption

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..
Hi Loz,

Sorry to nit pick, but the chart you posted on construction worker deaths during World Cup preparations said 4,000.
But if you had bothered to simply double check those facts with the Qatari organisation authorities you could have easily found out that the actual number is actually ZERO! Yes ...zero:

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/q...03-ghfjy1.html

It is certainly an overlooked element of bid criteria. I hope this Domenico Scala ethics guy picks up on this kind of terrible thing and not just the executive committee replacement, finances, bribery etc.

Maybe until further notice football/soccer should be known as 'Racket Ball'
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  #428  
Old 04.06.2015, 07:54
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Re: Mr Joseph Sepp Bellend Blatter - FIFA corruption

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Hi Loz,

Sorry to nit pick, but the chart you posted on construction worker deaths during World Cup preparations said 4,000.
But if you had bothered to simply double check those facts with the Qatari organisation authorities you could have easily found out that the actual number is actually ZERO! Yes ...zero:

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/q...03-ghfjy1.html

It is certainly an overlooked element of bid criteria. I hope this Domenico Scala ethics guy picks up on this kind of terrible thing and not just the executive committee replacement, finances, bribery etc.

Maybe until further notice football/soccer should be known as 'Racket Ball'
Come again?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...eath-toll-doha

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-...950088/?no-ist

And these reports were last year. Funny how Qata only reacted when the Washington Post said exactly the same thing.
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  #429  
Old 04.06.2015, 08:24
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Re: Mr Joseph Sepp Bellend Blatter - FIFA corruption

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Suzy Levine, the US ambassador in Bern, has praised the Zurich police for the excellent help in arresting the sinning seven.

That won't go down at all well at FIFA. Blatter is seeing a conspiracy between the USA & UK to get even with FIFA, as they lost out on the bid to Russia.
Some political commentators even in the USA are thinking along these lines. IMO extending the (undeclared) cold war would be the only logical reason why Washington would even bother about football.
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  #430  
Old 04.06.2015, 13:01
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Re: Mr Joseph Sepp Bellend Blatter - FIFA corruption

Apart from the laws being broken in their country you mean, Spalebärg?
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  #431  
Old 04.06.2015, 13:19
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Re: Mr Joseph Sepp Bellend Blatter - FIFA corruption

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Hi Loz,

Sorry to nit pick, but the chart you posted on construction worker deaths during World Cup preparations said 4,000.
But if you had bothered to simply double check those facts with the Qatari organisation authorities you could have easily found out that the actual number is actually ZERO! Yes ...zero:

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/q...03-ghfjy1.html

It is certainly an overlooked element of bid criteria. I hope this Domenico Scala ethics guy picks up on this kind of terrible thing and not just the executive committee replacement, finances, bribery etc.

Maybe until further notice football/soccer should be known as 'Racket Ball'
You're correct, the table has been amended now. Before it said "Qatar World Cup deaths", now it's beem amended in the press to state "Migrant deaths since 2010". Quite a big difference, but still disgusting non the less.

There was an excellent German documentary showing just how terrible the conditions are for migrant workers in Qatar. I can't find it at the moment, but perhaps someone else may have a link.
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  #432  
Old 04.06.2015, 13:52
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Re: Mr Joseph Sepp Bellend Blatter - FIFA corruption

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There was an excellent German documentary showing just how terrible the conditions are for migrant workers in Qatar. I can't find it at the moment, but perhaps someone else may have a link.
It was/is just as bad in Dubai.

Why anyone here would want to go to a place built with slave labour is beyond me.

Different mindset I expect.
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  #433  
Old 04.06.2015, 16:44
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Re: Mr Joseph Sepp Bellend Blatter - FIFA corruption

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Some political commentators even in the USA are thinking along these lines. IMO extending the (undeclared) cold war would be the only logical reason why Washington would even bother about football.
I thought the trigger was when a US media company was asked to pay a huge bribe by Fifa people some years ago, they reported it to the FBI.
Even when US companies were not directly involved the US banks were, the 10 million for Jack Warner went through a New York bank which would anyway be checked for possible money laundering.

BTW, Warner is now reported as claiming Sepp interfered in the Trinidad and Tobago govt. Elections.
Hard to know why he would?
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  #434  
Old 05.06.2015, 10:49
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Re: Mr Joseph Sepp Bellend Blatter - FIFA corruption

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You're correct, the table has been amended now. Before it said "Qatar World Cup deaths", now it's beem amended in the press to state "Migrant deaths since 2010". Quite a big difference, but still disgusting non the less.

There was an excellent German documentary showing just how terrible the conditions are for migrant workers in Qatar. I can't find it at the moment, but perhaps someone else may have a link.
While I don't know how CH construction workplace safety compares internationally, it seems fair to assume they are at least OK. So let's try to gain some perspective on the Qatar numbers.

A brochure of the Baumeisterverband says
- 300'000 jobs in Switzerland in the construction sector
- in recent years 30-70 deaths annually (I'll use 50 below)
- 150 deaths in 1995 on 300k jobs
- 420 deaths in 1975 [number of jobs unknown])
With 2 million jobs that would mean 320 deaths a year based on current standards, about 2'200 deaths by 2022 (7 years).

Death toll in Qatar should be expected to be considerably higher than here because:
- availability of medical care is probably considerably below swiss standards, even if Qatar tried their best
- buildings are higher, risk of a deadly fall much higher
- heat causes much more stress

Plus, perhaps, lower standards on work safety. If they had the swiss standards present in 1995 it would mean 7000 deaths

In this light, 4000 deaths really don't look really horrible, and definitely not as bad as the ITUC report underlying the WP article make it seem to be. Granted, one would wish the toll was lower, but some things can't be prevented. In my mind the outcry with respect to the death toll seems quite overblown.

Another thing are general working conditions and freedom of movement, perhaps human rights in general. But people seem to not care much about those, they're barely mentioned in the respective articles and posts.
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  #435  
Old 05.06.2015, 11:05
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Re: Mr Joseph Sepp Bellend Blatter - FIFA corruption

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I thought the trigger was when a US media company was asked to pay a huge bribe by Fifa people some years ago, they reported it to the FBI.
Hmmmm and FIFA television rights (for USA, Canada and Asia at least) are organised by Infront Media in Zug, which coincidentally was owned and run by Philippe Blatter, nephew of Sepp. I read somewhere a while ago that Sepp said it was a family matter when questioned about dealings with Infront media.
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Old 05.06.2015, 11:17
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Re: Mr Joseph Sepp Bellend Blatter - FIFA corruption

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It was/is just as bad in Dubai.

Why anyone here would want to go to a place built with slave labour is beyond me.

Different mindset I expect.

The Pyramids of Giza, the Great Wall of China, Duomo in Florence, H&M, Zara, Apple Store, the United States, etc..
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Old 05.06.2015, 11:30
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Re: Mr Joseph Sepp Bellend Blatter - FIFA corruption

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It was/is just as bad in Dubai.

Why anyone here would want to go to a place built with slave labour is beyond me.

Different mindset I expect.
Holier than thou mindset perhaps?
If you ever read any migrant labour report you'd know that dreadful working conditions/slave labour cases have been documented all over Western Europe, not only in "those" places. You wouldn't go anywhere many stadiums probably, wouldn't eat anything from Spain, Italy etc.
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  #438  
Old 05.06.2015, 11:34
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Re: Mr Joseph Sepp Bellend Blatter - FIFA corruption

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The Pyramids of Giza, the Great Wall of China, Duomo in Florence, H&M, Zara, Apple Store, the United States, etc..
Well discounting the first three as a time when we just didn't know any better, when considering the others, "slave" labour is generally forced labour, and not just labour with poor conditions, such as with Apple factories.

Read Mischa Glenny's MacMafia to give you more of an insight.

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  #439  
Old 05.06.2015, 11:42
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Re: Mr Joseph Sepp Bellend Blatter - FIFA corruption

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Well discounting the first three as a time when we just didn't know any better, when considering the others, "slave" labour is generally forced labour, and not just labour with poor conditions, such as with Apple factories.

Read Mischa Glenny's MacMafia to give you more of an insight.

So how is the Qatar situation forced labour? They travel from their countries for this work.
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  #440  
Old 05.06.2015, 12:04
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Re: Mr Joseph Sepp Bellend Blatter - FIFA corruption

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So how is the Qatar situation forced labour? They travel from their countries for this work.
Generally, they get promised a certain wage and travel to the Middle East with that wage in mind. Out of this they need to pay their travel expenses.

But, when they arrive, their passports are taken away and they get paid a tiny fraction of what they were promised.
They spend most of their time trying to pay back their travel expenses to the criminals organising their work and travel and are trapped having neither the finance or passport to travel home.
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