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-   -   Swiss women earn 41 percent less than men (https://www.englishforum.ch/swiss-politics-news/115404-swiss-women-earn-41-percent-less-than-men.html)

Nil 31.05.2011 23:44

Swiss women earn 41 percent less than men
 
Swiss women earn 41 percent less than men


Quote:

Women in Switzerland earn 41 percent less than men, according to the Swiss Federation of Trade Unions (SGB). Wage discrimination has even increased over the past few years, the group said on Friday.



Source

This is even worse that I could imagine! :eek:

31.05.2011 23:49

Re: Swiss women earn 41 percent less than men
 
You have lies, damn lies and statistics Nil

If you look past the punchy headline:

'Rechsteiner said that wage discrimination was a serious problem in Switzerland, and that women generally earned about 10 percent less than men for equal work.'

I'm not sure what difference there is in other countries but I'd imagine it would be around equal. I'm not saying 10% is okay...I'm just saying it's not as bad as 40%

The 41% figures seems to be collating ALL the mens salaries and taking a mean and comparing all the women's salaries and taking a mean. It doesn't say if the women are working part time or what? It's a very vague article and doesn't really tell us much to be honest.

st2lemans 31.05.2011 23:49

Re: Swiss women earn 41 percent less than men
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nil (Post 1214054)
Swiss women earn 41 percent less than men


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Source

This is even worse that I could imagine! :eek:

Yes, but they are not doing the same jobs!

Women work at lower paid jobs, is what the article states, and they work less hours.

What employer would pay a man more to do the EXACT same job if they could pay a woman 40% less?

Tom

Nil 31.05.2011 23:50

Re: Swiss women earn 41 percent less than men
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by porsch1909 (Post 1214063)
You have lies, damn lies and statistics Nil

If you look past the punchy headline:

'Rechsteiner said that wage discrimination was a serious problem in Switzerland, and that women generally earned about 10 percent less than men for equal work.'

I'm not sure what difference there is in other countries but I'd imagine it would be around equal. I'm not saying 10% is okay...I'm just saying it's not as bad as 40%

The 41% figures seems to be collating ALL the mens salaries and taking a mean and comparing all the women's salaries and taking a mean. It doesn't say if the women are working part time or what? It's a very vague article and doesn't really tell us much to be honest.

Hey, I found this news from this forum, It is The Local!

If they say it, it most be true!

;)

31.05.2011 23:55

Re: Swiss women earn 41 percent less than men
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nil (Post 1214067)
Hey, I found this news from this forum, It is The Local!

If they say it, it most be true!

;)

They do earn 40% less than men I'm sure, but what Porschie's saying is that they often work part time or in more menial jobs or a combination of these. This isn't taken into consideration.

31.05.2011 23:58

Re: Swiss women earn 41 percent less than men
 
I'm not paying a woman 6k per month to make me a sammich...jeez....

01.06.2011 00:01

Re: Swiss women earn 41 percent less than men
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by porsch1909 (Post 1214077)
I'm not paying a woman 6k per month to make me a sammich...jeez....

It's the only way that sammich's gonna get made mate.

Nil 01.06.2011 00:03

Re: Swiss women earn 41 percent less than men
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by economisto (Post 1214075)
They do earn 40% less than men I'm sure, but what Porschie's saying is that they often work part time or in more menial jobs or a combination of these. This isn't taken into consideration.

It is true, it also says that woman have more insecure jobs and yes, in case of seperations or divorces, they are more often the one in financial trouble.

Still sad indeed. Because even with 2 persons; a man and a woman, with the same work experience, diplomas, etc. the woman is still going to earn less than the man.

Still lot of work to do on that topic.

01.06.2011 00:05

Re: Swiss women earn 41 percent less than men
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nil (Post 1214080)
It is true, it also says that woman have more insecure jobs and yes, in case of seperations or divorces, they are more often the one in financial trouble.

Still sad indeed. Because even with 2 persons; a man and a woman, with the same work experience, diplomas, etc. the woman is still going to earn less than the man.

Still lot of work to do on that topic.

A lot of it is because they want to or at least decide to earn less. Oftentimes they choose to prioritise children over a career and then their eventual work/wage expectations are reduced.

Nil 01.06.2011 00:08

Re: Swiss women earn 41 percent less than men
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by economisto (Post 1214084)
A lot of it is because they want to or at least decide to earn less. Oftentimes they choose to prioritise children over a career and then their eventual work/wage expectations are reduced.

Don't forget that society still expect the women to do that sacrifice more than the men.

Choice isn't always an option. If a woman work her a$$ off to get far in her career and studied like crazy to get where she is, I am not sure she'll be happy to see her work value being less than a man for the same job.

MusicChick 01.06.2011 00:12

Re: Swiss women earn 41 percent less than men
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by economisto (Post 1214075)
They do earn 40% less than men I'm sure, but what Porschie's saying is that they often work part time or in more menial jobs or a combination of these. This isn't taken into consideration.

I am not sure if they necessarily want to work more part time/more menial jobs than guys. The child care situation here and school hours don't really help it, either.

W-Maximus 01.06.2011 00:14

Re: Swiss women earn 41 percent less than men
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nil (Post 1214088)
Don't forget that society still expect the women to do that sacrifice more than the men.

Choice isn't always an option. If a woman work her a$$ off to get far in her career and studied like crazy to get where she is, I am not sure she'll be happy to see her work value being less than a man for the same job.

If men could breast-feed, would they burn their bras ?

01.06.2011 00:14

Re: Swiss women earn 41 percent less than men
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MusicChick (Post 1214092)
I am not sure if they necessarily want to work more part time/more menial jobs than guys. The child care situation here and school hours don't really help it, either.

Nothing says women have to take care of the kids while the men go to work. It's the woman's problem if they choose to concede to social norms, this isn't Saudi Arabia. If you're in a position to choose, and you choose to have kids and have them with a guy who believes women take care of the kids/work part time, then that's the choice you've made.

MusicChick 01.06.2011 00:22

Re: Swiss women earn 41 percent less than men
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by economisto (Post 1214097)
Nothing says women have to take care of the kids while the men go to work. It's the woman's problem if they choose to concede to social norms, this isn't Saudi Arabia. If you're in a position to choose, and you choose to have kids and have them with a guy who believes women take care of the kids/work part time, then that's the choice you've made.

Many people are not in the position to chose. Event the kids vs loss of the income/career dilemma is a luxury for some. The one earning less will get the kids and chaperon them over lunch break, will keep them when family has no cash for creche, etc. In a way, it is still Saudi Arabia for a lot of the women I know.

If men could breastfeed? There have been cases of guys lactating, yes. I really do not want to think about it. But for those who aren't lactating, there still are freezers full of their wives' expressed milk.

Bras are too pretty to burn, anyways. :)

Upthehatters2008 01.06.2011 00:30

Re: Swiss women earn 41 percent less than men
 
Sounds about right...

01.06.2011 00:35

Re: Swiss women earn 41 percent less than men
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MusicChick (Post 1214101)
Many people are not in the position to chose. Event the kids vs loss of the income/career dilemma is a luxury for some. The one earning less will get the kids and chaperon them over lunch break, will keep them when family has no cash for creche, etc. In a way, it is still Saudi Arabia for a lot of the women I know.

If men could breastfeed? There have been cases of guys lactating, yes. I really do not want to think about it. But for those who aren't lactating, there still are freezers full of their wives' expressed milk.

Bras are too pretty to burn, anyways. :)

Not feeling you can say no and not being able to say no are really worlds apart. I can assure you remarkably few women in Switzerland truly have no choice when it comes to their lives.

Upthehatters2008 01.06.2011 00:45

Re: Swiss women earn 41 percent less than men
 
Given the choice...staying at home looking after the kids is a luxury...

W-Maximus 01.06.2011 00:48

Re: Swiss women earn 41 percent less than men
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Upthehatters2008 (Post 1214111)
Given the choice...staying at home looking after the kids is a luxury...

Try it once..and you will be begging to go back to work for a rest...

MusicChick 01.06.2011 00:49

Re: Swiss women earn 41 percent less than men
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by economisto (Post 1214107)
Not feeling you can say no and not being able to say no are really worlds apart. I can assure you remarkably few women in Switzerland truly have no choice when it comes to their lives.

The situations I have watched were often about not knowing what to do, being afraid of daring, conservatism caused by just following the route moms and grannies did, society maybe expecting certain roles, etc. that's true, but often also about costs, creche costs, and prioritizing the one with reliable work with higher income that will tie the family over the rough times, etc. I wouldn't say that these days it's a reasonably equal ride, with the costs attached here and other obstacles, but loads of people share, also. Some can't. I wouldn't say the one who decides to stay at home because it helps the family budget, gives up career, later takes whatever comes, a part time job here and there and slowly builds it back up, has no control over her life. Of course there is prioritizing and decision making, but sometimes some people have less room to decide themselves.

01.06.2011 00:49

Re: Swiss women earn 41 percent less than men
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Upthehatters2008 (Post 1214111)
Given the choice...staying at home looking after the kids is a luxury...

dont be bloody stupid, I'd rather take out a loan for a nanny.


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