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  #21  
Old 03.06.2011, 22:28
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Re: Why the Swiss don't like "the welfare state"?

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You wouldn't be taxed so much if you would only stop generating so much trash!
That's his point: in Switzerland, one is taxed according to one's use of a particular service.

In the United Kingdom, on the other hand, one gets taxed the same rate regardless of how much of a service you use, and how good that service actually is.
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Old 03.06.2011, 22:42
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Re: Why the Swiss don't like "the welfare state"?

Taking Norway as an example for comparison is not fair as Norway earns quite a lot from gas and oil production per capita. They try to invest the profits wisely but still a lot sinks into pampering the society.
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Old 03.06.2011, 22:54
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Re: Why the Swiss don't like "the welfare state"?

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That's his point: in Switzerland, one is taxed according to one's use of a particular service.

In the United Kingdom, on the other hand, one gets taxed the same rate regardless of how much of a service you use, and how good that service actually is.
Yes I know.

I was trying to be funny suggesting he make works of art out of his trash and sell them for big money to banks who buy art as investments....


No sense of humor these Brits.... grummble...
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Old 04.06.2011, 00:52
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Re: Why the Swiss don't like "the welfare state"?

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...like the Scandinavians?
the Swiss population, in an endless number of public votes, union-wide, cantonal and municipal, have quite clearly endorsed the WELFARE STATE.

You compare it with Scandinavia and Britain. But in Switzerland, the Social Democratic Party never had an absolute majority in parliament. And few Swiss would have wanted to go as far as Scandinavia.

Comparisons are difficult anyway. For example, the man who in Germany started the "Social Market Economy" was not a Socialist but clearly right of centre Konrad Adenauer

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Old 04.06.2011, 00:56
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Re: Why the Swiss don't like "the welfare state"?

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But you have to work to get the insurance? As apposed to the UK where anyone can get it
No, much of it is paid via the taxes, and so is free-of-charge to the recipients. But while in Britain, Clement Attlee at war-end won a majority in Westminster and pushed through his changes, the Swiss Social Democrats had to take the road via endless public votes on union, Canton and municipal level. That they won and tend to win most of such votes shows that the social welfare state is appreciated, at least as long as it is within acceptable limits

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Switzerland vs Norway...both have mountains, lots of rifles at home, problems with languages and dialects, but the 2nd scores a lot better when it comes to welfare (and not only that).

- Why the Swiss prefer to have their health managed by greedy private insurance firms, rather than by the state?

- Why women get only 12 weeks of paid maternity leave? 12 WEEKS! For God's sake! Is that how they think they can convince Swiss people to have more babies?
You don't want immigrants? Fine, but then you must provide a lot more incentives for women to have children, and not resort only to the backward idea (typically Swiss) "a women with children should stay at home for the rest of her life"! We are in 2011, you know...
Let's not even talk about other Norwegian "women-friendly" economic policies, otherwise the shame for Switzerland becomes astronomic...

- In Norway there is an SVP-like party, the "Progress party", with similar percentages to the SVP (and the same lack of shame in their communication strategies)...but at least they have the decency to have integrated immigrants among their ranks...and a woman as the head of the party.
One of the worst SVPler is first-generation Italian immigrant Mr Bortoluzzi

12 weeks ? this is mightily generous by Swiss standards !!

who wants more babies ?

who does not want to have immigrants ?

the rest of her life ? the mother can when the child reaches age 5 or six and starts to go Kindergarten re-start
part-time and a few years later go working full time. Parents of young children get financial support (Kindergeld) from the state (Canton) for each child, to compensate


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Move to Ticino, we (at least where I live) don't have them.

Tom
Possibly not yet. When looking through
http://www.lugano.ch/tools/search.cf...=20&quartieri=
I due to my weak Italian get a bit confused, but in essence, my conclusion is that the Canton of Ticino will devise a system to charge ALL TI inhabitants for the waste-disposal before too long

Last edited by Wollishofener; 04.06.2011 at 01:32.
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Old 04.06.2011, 19:44
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Re: Why the Swiss don't like "the welfare state"?

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was not a Socialist but clearly right of centre
Most of them (if not all!) are socialists in disguise.

At least with SP, you know you get socialism.
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  #27  
Old 04.06.2011, 20:10
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Re: Why the Swiss don't like "the welfare state"?

Just that you know: The three scandinavian countries DK,NO,SE are quite different in some aspects. Please do not use ever the expression "Scandinavian system" or related generalizations that do not relate to any defined single reality. Thank you.
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Old 04.06.2011, 20:30
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Re: Why the Swiss don't like "the welfare state"?

This is actually the main difference between Norway and just about every country in the world... Norway has two IMMENSE Gov't pension/sovereign wealth funds that have been capitalized with oil money for 40 years. With a relatively small population, every CITIZEN is well taken care of.

I only wish I had a Norwegian passport. And my Mother's family came from there, but a few generations back... no love for me!

fduvall

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Taking Norway as an example for comparison is not fair as Norway earns quite a lot from gas and oil production per capita. They try to invest the profits wisely but still a lot sinks into pampering the society.
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Old 04.06.2011, 20:33
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Re: Why the Swiss don't like "the welfare state"?

I had migrants in Finland and Sweden visit CH, and from the little I understood, it seems that the Finnish KELA and Social Security in Sweden with a PUT ( Residence Permit ) was much more generous than in CH.
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  #30  
Old 04.06.2011, 21:22
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Re: Why the Swiss don't like "the welfare state"?

ignorance is a bliss!
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  #31  
Old 04.06.2011, 23:37
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Re: Why the Swiss don't like "the welfare state"?

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Most of them (if not all!) are socialists in disguise.

At least with SP, you know you get socialism.
tell this to Mrs Merkel
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  #32  
Old 04.06.2011, 23:41
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Re: Why the Swiss don't like "the welfare state"?

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I had migrants in Finland and Sweden visit CH, and from the little I understood, it seems that the Finnish KELA and Social Security in Sweden with a PUT ( Residence Permit ) was much more generous than in CH.
You understood correctly. In both countries, the Socialists for many years were in political power and took the opportunity to establish a rather extreme "welfare state". In Switzerland, the Social Democrats had to push through any social reform first in the two houses of parliament and then through a federal public vote
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Old 05.06.2011, 00:11
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Re: Why the Swiss don't like "the welfare state"?

Stop this Scandinavia chat, pleeeeeeeeeeeeeease!! The conservative did as much for the system called socialist in this forum. Ask Schlüter, Bild, Bondevik and the whole right wing club there!! Even Fogh Rasmussen has been pleading against tax reductions in order to maintain the financing of the flexisecurity system. And those people admire Thatcher, Adenauer and the IMF. The cultural filter just makes it a different political product at the other end of the chain, but that does not make them socialist, as scandinavian socialists fight them at every elections. Seen from outside, one may not see the difference, but it doesn't mean there isn't one.

Cultural filter is everything. One own and other's.
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  #34  
Old 05.06.2011, 18:33
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Re: Why the Swiss don't like "the welfare state"?

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And those people admire Thatcher, Adenauer and the IMF.
Is that the same IMF as the one run previously by socialist DSK?
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  #35  
Old 05.06.2011, 18:38
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Re: Why the Swiss don't like "the welfare state"?

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Possibly not yet. When looking through
http://www.lugano.ch/tools/search.cf...=20&quartieri=
I due to my weak Italian get a bit confused, but in essence, my conclusion is that the Canton of Ticino will devise a system to charge ALL TI inhabitants for the waste-disposal before too long

Where, exactly?

All I could find is stuff about Lugano itself, but I live 8km away, and what the Luganese do is not my problem!

Tom
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Old 05.06.2011, 19:13
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Re: Why the Swiss don't like "the welfare state"?

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Is that the same IMF as the one run previously by socialist DSK?
Have you followed the IMF doings in southern America in the 90ies and 2000ies ? It takes a real conservative to admire that. But I guess a one liner with name dropping is more important to you than the actual topic.
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Old 05.06.2011, 20:23
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Re: Why the Swiss don't like "the welfare state"?

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Have you followed the IMF doings in southern America in the 90ies and 2000ies ? It takes a real conservative to admire that. But I guess a one liner with name dropping is more important to you than the actual topic.

I was merely stating a one lined fact, so dont get sensitive.

Of course i know of the dealings of the IMF, hence why i felt compelled to reply to an 'error'. Although i admit, I am no expert like you may be. The IMF is an engine that doesnt just run on one idealogy, nor was it created as such.
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Old 05.06.2011, 23:31
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Re: Why the Swiss don't like "the welfare state"?

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I was merely stating a one lined fact, so dont get sensitive.

Of course i know of the dealings of the IMF, hence why i felt compelled to reply to an 'error'. Although i admit, I am no expert like you may be. The IMF is an engine that doesnt just run on one idealogy, nor was it created as such.
As you state it here yourself, your oneliner was NOT a "fact" but very simply WRONG, wrong in regard to how the IMF works and wrong in regard to DSK




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Is that the same IMF as the one run previously by socialist DSK?
DSK was and is a member of the Socialist Party. Whether he really ever was a Socialist is a different question

Last edited by Wollishofener; 05.06.2011 at 23:42.
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Old 05.06.2011, 23:38
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Re: Why the Swiss don't like "the welfare state"?

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Where, exactly?

All I could find is stuff about Lugano itself, but I live 8km away, and what the Luganese do is not my problem!

Tom
Answer : I don't know, as all those lengthy texts look like lots of hot air. But this is how the merger of some neighbouring villages into the City of Lugano came about. It apparently is the way of politics in Ticino in general and Lugano in particular. But I expect it to go similar ways as in Zürich. Where such programs first take place in cities and towns but NOT in villages a bit outside

BUT, things DO spread and may reach you within a few years
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Old 05.06.2011, 23:47
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Re: Why the Swiss don't like "the welfare state"?

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Stop this Scandinavia chat, pleeeeeeeeeeeeeease!! The conservative did as much for the system called socialist in this forum. Ask Schlüter, Bild, Bondevik and the whole right wing club there!! Even Fogh Rasmussen has been pleading against tax reductions in order to maintain the financing of the flexisecurity system. And those people admire Thatcher, Adenauer and the IMF. The cultural filter just makes it a different political product at the other end of the chain, but that does not make them socialist, as scandinavian socialists fight them at every elections. Seen from outside, one may not see the difference, but it doesn't mean there isn't one.

Cultural filter is everything. One own and other's.
On global scale "all" parties are "socialists" in Scandinavia...
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