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Old 03.06.2011, 19:26
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Why the Swiss don't like "the welfare state"?

...like the Scandinavians?
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  #2  
Old 03.06.2011, 19:31
economisto
 
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Re: Why the Swiss don't like "the welfare state"?

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...like the Scandinavians?
They do, they love it, they've just rebranded it as "insurance".
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Old 03.06.2011, 19:33
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Re: Why the Swiss don't like "the welfare state"?

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They do, they love it, they've just rebranded it as "insurance".
But you have to work to get the insurance? As apposed to the UK where anyone can get it
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Old 03.06.2011, 19:36
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Re: Why the Swiss don't like "the welfare state"?

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...like the Scandinavians?
Compare Swedish tax rates and Swiss ones. Any other questions?
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Old 03.06.2011, 19:39
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Re: Why the Swiss don't like "the welfare state"?

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But you have to work to get the insurance? As apposed to the UK where anyone can get it
Nah, it just seems like you do. Work for two years, pay 5% unemployment insurance then become voluntarily fired and collect 70% of my previous wage for another 2 years. If my starting salary was 60k per year, that's a payment of 6000 in insurance and a collection of 84000. Net welfare benefit of 78000 over two years.

So it's like the UK, the hard workers pay for everyone else, except there isn't an unemployed person in the UK taking £30000 per year in benefits, in spite of what the Daily Mail would have you believe.
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Old 03.06.2011, 19:39
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Re: Why the Swiss don't like "the welfare state"?

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...like the Scandinavians?
Because they'd rather be self-sufficient than stealing from other people who are?

Edit: referring to the subject (why don't Swiss like the welfare state), not Scandinavians.
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Old 03.06.2011, 19:40
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Re: Why the Swiss don't like "the welfare state"?

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Compare Swedish tax rates and Swiss ones. Any other questions?
Again, Swiss tax is high, it's just taken differently (the amount I spend on Zuri-sacs...)

Like in Dubai - no income tax but loads of charges etc.
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Old 03.06.2011, 19:45
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Re: Why the Swiss don't like "the welfare state"?

A UK article of July 2010, titled Swiss welfare runs like clockwork

http://www.spectator.co.uk/essays/al...lockwork.thtml

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The boom in lone and unmarried parenting is one of the ways in which our own welfare state has harmed our society — not only the children involved but also the women and men...
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Old 03.06.2011, 21:01
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Re: Why the Swiss don't like "the welfare state"?

Switzerland vs Norway...both have mountains, lots of rifles at home, problems with languages and dialects, but the 2nd scores a lot better when it comes to welfare (and not only that).

- Why the Swiss prefer to have their health managed by greedy private insurance firms, rather than by the state?

- Why women get only 12 weeks of paid maternity leave? 12 WEEKS! For God's sake! Is that how they think they can convince Swiss people to have more babies?
You don't want immigrants? Fine, but then you must provide a lot more incentives for women to have children, and not resort only to the backward idea (typically Swiss) "a women with children should stay at home for the rest of her life"! We are in 2011, you know...
Let's not even talk about other Norwegian "women-friendly" economic policies, otherwise the shame for Switzerland becomes astronomic...

- In Norway there is an SVP-like party, the "Progress party", with similar percentages to the SVP (and the same lack of shame in their communication strategies)...but at least they have the decency to have integrated immigrants among their ranks...and a woman as the head of the party.
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Old 03.06.2011, 21:34
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Re: Why the Swiss don't like "the welfare state"?

You know it is actually very simple. It is because swiss are swiss and norwegians are norwegians. Different people, ideas, thoughts, values, perspective, etc. Different strokes for different folks. That's a beautiful thing.
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Old 03.06.2011, 21:34
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Re: Why the Swiss don't like "the welfare state"?

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Switzerland vs Norway...both have mountains, lots of rifles at home, problems with languages and dialects, but the 2nd scores a lot better when it comes to welfare (and not only that).

- Why the Swiss prefer to have their health managed by greedy private insurance firms, rather than by the state?

- Why women get only 12 weeks of paid maternity leave? 12 WEEKS! For God's sake! Is that how they think they can convince Swiss people to have more babies?
You don't want immigrants? Fine, but then you must provide a lot more incentives for women to have children, and not resort only to the backward idea (typically Swiss) "a women with children should stay at home for the rest of her life"! We are in 2011, you know...
Let's not even talk about other Norwegian "women-friendly" economic policies, otherwise the shame for Switzerland becomes astronomic...

- In Norway there is an SVP-like party, the "Progress party", with similar percentages to the SVP (and the same lack of shame in their communication strategies)...but at least they have the decency to have integrated immigrants among their ranks...and a woman as the head of the party.
You just have to accept that different nations take different approaches -- and none is perfect.

I don't know about Norway's system, but I do know about the UK's, where the welfare system is extremely well-intended but very badly abused.

The problem that no one has solved there is how to provide a service that is generous enough to be genuinely useful, but not so generous that large swathes of the population milk it for everything they can get.

Here in Switzerland, they prefer to put money into a system where young people learn apprenticeships rather than into one where the kids can choose to live off the state indefinitely, being paid more with every child they create. On balance, I prefer the Swiss way.

As for women being paid for 'only' 12 weeks, I totally disagree with your complaint. As a Swiss taxpayer and worker. I'm happy to help finance the first few months, but I don't see why I should be obliged to bankroll new parents indefinitely. If you choose to have kids, good for you -- but it is your decision. Why should you feel entitled to other people's money if you have children?
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Old 03.06.2011, 21:36
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Re: Why the Swiss don't like "the welfare state"?

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...like the Scandinavians?
Does ANYONE like it?

Tom
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Old 03.06.2011, 21:38
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Re: Why the Swiss don't like "the welfare state"?

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Again, Swiss tax is high, it's just taken differently (the amount I spend on Zuri-sacs...)
Move to Ticino, we (at least where I live) don't have them.

Tom
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Old 03.06.2011, 21:40
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Re: Why the Swiss don't like "the welfare state"?

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...like the Scandinavians?
lol compared to America they do. It is all a matter of perspective.
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Old 03.06.2011, 21:41
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Re: Why the Swiss don't like "the welfare state"?

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Switzerland vs Norway...both have mountains, lots of rifles at home, problems with languages and dialects, but the 2nd scores a lot better when it comes to welfare (and not only that).
Yes, and all my Norwegian friends and relatives (working similar jobs) always ask how it is possible to support a family with only one income in Switzerland?

Tom

P.S. I spend an average of two weeks/year in Norway.
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Old 03.06.2011, 21:53
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Re: Why the Swiss don't like "the welfare state"?

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- Why the Swiss prefer to have their health managed by greedy private insurance firms, rather than by the state?
And this surprises you, why?

At least there is some sort of single payer system unlike here in the USA.
Talk about greedy private insurance firms...
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Old 03.06.2011, 22:01
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Re: Why the Swiss don't like "the welfare state"?

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Move to Ticino, we (at least where I live) don't have them.

Tom
I'm not complaining! I like the way I'm taxed here. I don't think I'm taxed little, but I like the relative transparency and the metered access to services you get here. Living in Scandinavia (as many members of my family do) would be an absolute nightmare for me because of the tax situation. Certainly, I'd rather pay for Zuri sacs than pay UK Council Tax and have the council come to me and say they're doing one collection of one bin per week and if I need more then tough.
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Old 03.06.2011, 22:18
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Re: Why the Swiss don't like "the welfare state"?

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- Why the Swiss prefer to have their health managed by greedy private insurance firms, rather than by the state?
They are greedy. But they are not allowed to make profits from the basic coverage. They make their money with the additional coverage they sell.
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Old 03.06.2011, 22:22
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Re: Why the Swiss don't like "the welfare state"?

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I'm not complaining! I like the way I'm taxed here. I don't think I'm taxed little, but I like the relative transparency and the metered access to services you get here. Living in Scandinavia (as many members of my family do) would be an absolute nightmare for me because of the tax situation. Certainly, I'd rather pay for Zuri sacs than pay UK Council Tax and have the council come to me and say they're doing one collection of one bin per week and if I need more then tough.
Um, I would tend to agree now more than I used to do.

My trash bill here in the US is very expensive compared to what I had to pay in Vaud. My family and I do not have much waste material that cannot be recycled so the cost here is relatively high.
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Old 03.06.2011, 22:22
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Re: Why the Swiss don't like "the welfare state"?

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I'm not complaining! I like the way I'm taxed here. I don't think I'm taxed little, but I like the relative transparency and the metered access to services you get here. Living in Scandinavia (as many members of my family do) would be an absolute nightmare for me because of the tax situation. Certainly, I'd rather pay for Zuri sacs than pay UK Council Tax and have the council come to me and say they're doing one collection of one bin per week and if I need more then tough.
You wouldn't be taxed so much if you would only stop generating so much trash! Make some works of art and sell them to the bank as an investment.
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