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Old 11.06.2011, 15:29
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Re: World's Most Expensive Cities 2011

The thing that gets me, is the extraordninary price you pay here for the lack of choices and inferior quality of products and services. Being pricey is one thing...but being price and have nothing to offer is definitely a negative aspect of this country.
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  #22  
Old 11.06.2011, 17:02
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Re: World's Most Expensive Cities 2011

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Wollishofener;1225398]Their WEBsite
http://www.mars.com/global/global-brands/unclebens.aspx
tells a different story
They aren't going to tell the world about their little brand problem down under

I think it must be a different company with "of Australia" on the end.
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Old 11.06.2011, 17:57
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Re: World's Most Expensive Cities 2011

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You are giving them right. The prices you said are the prices in dollars.

I am a Portuguese working here at one month, and after you do not feel that the prices are high due to high salary.

But the problem is what you describe as lunch. In Switzerland, Netherlands, Germany a sand, thai food and a beer is a lunch.

In Portugal, you pay 6 chf and you have starters, soup, main dish (and a main dish is twice the food here) and desert.

So you have to reference as a quick lunch for portuguese, brasilian, spanish and others.

If i bring my parents here and a pizza and a orange juice costs 24 chf (i paid in another day in zurich) for a lunch menu they will go crazy.

You pay 3 chf in Portugal. See what i mean. Is not only the price...is the culture. Pay for water is not normal there. Always free or almost free.

So i understand the studies.
No. I don't see what you mean. It has nothing to do with culture. The survey is not relevant to you who used to make Euro & now makes CHF as it's based on the buying power of the US$.

In Portugal the salaries are much lower as well. That's what I said above. What % of your income are you spending your housing, food, clothes, car/transport, etc. THAT is more important to understand.

And those lunches you describe in Portugal are not "quick".
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Old 11.06.2011, 18:52
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Re: World's Most Expensive Cities 2011

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The thing that gets me, is the extraordninary price you pay here for the lack of choices and inferior quality of products and services. Being pricey is one thing...but being price and have nothing to offer is definitely a negative aspect of this country.
It is also the inventive but costly ways they like to charge you, here is an example: Upgrade the tiles we have in the two bathrooms, so you expect the cost to be the difference between the cost of the tiles?

Oh, no, there is cement (glue) + storage of the tiles + labour, so like were the orignal tiles not going to be laid or glued to the walls?

Without blinking they respond, oh this is standard and we gave you a discount, so what is this bit about 300CHF for preperation?

Oh, that is because it is not standard and we have to think about it

Heck, I did the thinking, I choose the dam tiles, crikey.
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Old 11.06.2011, 21:01
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Re: World's Most Expensive Cities 2011

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Eggs ARE expensive in most places except ALDI and some Turkish stores where you can get NON-Swiss eggs for less than 5.-- per dozen.
Is that chicken still up for adoption on the EF?

Oh, wait, I think it was a "he", not a "she". Darn.
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  #26  
Old 11.06.2011, 21:39
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Re: World's Most Expensive Cities 2011

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The ranking is based on the conversion of selected prices into US dollars, so it's strongly biased against countries with currencies that are currently strong against the US dollar. Hence the finding that six of Australia's cities (heck, there are only six cities to speak of in the whole country!) are in the top 30, while there wasn't one in the top 100 two years ago.

In other words, the table is simply a list of places that Americans (and anyone else holding US dollars) would find expensive. The world comprises many people who aren't American. As others have pointed out, a ranking of spending power (earnings vs cost of goods) using the home country's currency for both factors would be much more useful.
22 yards has it right. This article is bad news for US citizens who want to have vacation time in these cities, but says nothing of significance about how expensive it is for residents. In fact, Zurich, Geneva and Bern appear in this "10 most expensive" list but also figure in the top 10s for quality of life.

Sure, a beer in a bar here is almost twice what I paid in the UK, but my salary is double what I earned in the UK, and I no longer pay 40% tax. We all know the arguments.

What the article is essentially saying is that the US dollar is toilet paper at the moment. It says nothing of value about what it means to live and work in Zurich or Geneva, earning local money.
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  #27  
Old 11.06.2011, 21:41
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Re: World's Most Expensive Cities 2011

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Switzerland (Zurich, Geneva, Bern) again with three of the most expensive cities to live in the world, no surprise.....

Fuccing stupid list. Kinshasa, for a Western quality meal etc, is twice as expensive as Luanda. Same with Goma. For a shitty hotel room its $500 per night, all because NGO's and UN wankers bid up the prices for everything. Ive never spent less that $50 for a real meal there. If you spend less than $50 you end up getting deep fried monkey hands or chicken feathers in hot sauce. For an ice-cream bar its $10. I highly doubt Business Week actually went to every city in the world and compared.
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  #28  
Old 11.06.2011, 22:50
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Re: World's Most Expensive Cities 2011

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22 yards has it right. This article is bad news for US citizens who want to have vacation time in these cities, but says nothing of significance about how expensive it is for residents. In fact, Zurich, Geneva and Bern appear in this "10 most expensive" list but also figure in the top 10s for quality of life.
Based on what? The garbage mercer study?
You have to be a fool to believe that Swiss cities really top the list in terms of living standard. Do you think that people who conduct these studies have actually every lived in either city mentioned in the study? I doubt it!
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  #29  
Old 11.06.2011, 23:07
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Re: World's Most Expensive Cities 2011

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Based on what? The garbage mercer study?
You have to be a fool to believe that Swiss cities really top the list in terms of living standard. Do you think that people who conduct these studies have actually every lived in either city mentioned in the study? I doubt it!
Agree. I read a study a year ago that ranked Switzerland as top 5 for friendliest place for expats. These lists are based on some sort of statistical criteria and not real research most of the time.

Although I will say it seems the US$ is cheap if we were to really compare the stats. The US is still the cheapest place for a large, good quality meal. What other westernized country can you get a 3 bedroom, 2 bathroom in a gated community for under $100,000?

I think these rankings have more to do with the undervalued US$ than the actual standard of living.
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Old 11.06.2011, 23:26
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Re: World's Most Expensive Cities 2011

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Switzerland (Zurich, Geneva, Bern) again with three of the most expensive cities to live in the world, no surprise.....
I think that it is partly due to the ever-rising CHF.
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  #31  
Old 11.06.2011, 23:31
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Re: World's Most Expensive Cities 2011

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I wonder New York and London are not even on the list
New York is in the USA, which uses American dollars as its currency. London is in the UK, where British pounds are the currency. Both currencies may currently be found at the bottom of the global financial toilet.

This is the point I made earlier in this thread.

You'll also note that there aren't too many Euro-zone cities high in the rankings. That's because the Euro is keeping close company with the USD and GBP. The Swedes and the Norwegians, on the other hand, are doing just fine (at least in the context of this survey) against the US dollar.
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  #32  
Old 11.06.2011, 23:32
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Re: World's Most Expensive Cities 2011

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Agree. I read a study a year ago that ranked Switzerland as top 5 for friendliest place for expats. These lists are based on some sort of statistical criteria and not real research most of the time.

Although I will say it seems the US$ is cheap if we were to really compare the stats. The US is still the cheapest place for a large, good quality meal. What other westernized country can you get a 3 bedroom, 2 bathroom in a gated community for under $100,000?

I think these rankings have more to do with the undervalued US$ than the actual standard of living.
I think it had more to do with Switzerland being the world's laundromat (and I don't mean dirty linen).
Take Zurich for example...a complete lack of available apartments. If you do manage to get an apartment, you can expect to pay an absurd amount of money for it....in exchange you have the luxury of having an assigned wash day (most likely every 2 weeks), no a/c and most likely no parking space either. Which brings me to the next category...traffic. None of these studies measure traffic per capita. Somehow Zurich always manages to get clogged up...back in the days, when I used to drive, I took me more than 1 hour to get into town..and for a city this size, it is simply inexcusable. Another thing is the complete lack of choices pertaining to any product/service. I find it even outrageous, that certain establishments charge 20%? extra if your purchase food after 10pm. I could go on with this...my point is, these studies are heavily skewed and certainly don't represent reality.

Last edited by lost_inbroad; 11.06.2011 at 23:44.
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  #33  
Old 11.06.2011, 23:35
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Re: World's Most Expensive Cities 2011

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Another thing is the complete lack of choices pertaining to any product/service.
If I understand you correctly, it seems you feel that Switzerland offers below-par choice/product range. Have you considered starting a thread on EF to discuss this situation?
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  #34  
Old 11.06.2011, 23:43
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Re: World's Most Expensive Cities 2011

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If I understand you correctly, it seems you feel that Switzerland offers below-par choice/product range. Have you considered starting a thread on EF to discuss this situation?
The thought had crossed my mind...but I ultimately refrained from it.
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  #35  
Old 12.06.2011, 00:20
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Re: World's Most Expensive Cities 2011

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The thing that gets me, is the extraordninary price you pay here for the lack of choices and inferior quality of products and services. Being pricey is one thing...but being price and have nothing to offer is definitely a negative aspect of this country.
Here you go again ! Jumping to TWO wrong conclusions :
A) to link high or low prices with choice
B) to link high prices with quality
Neither has to do ANYTHING with the other !!! NONE / ZERO / NADA

Prices for consumer products in the CH of the 1950ies were far higher than now, because relatively small shops dominated. In our vicinity we had a greengrocer, Mr Casiraghi, who had an immense choice, the butcher, Mr König, who tried to give the best possible service, small but expensive Denner (not yet self-service ! ), LVZ (small and not self-service, predecessor of COOP !), a milk-shop (who until the early 60ies each morning provided fresh milk), about three bakeries (Bäckerei/Konditorei) within some 300 meters. Some USEGO shops around. Actually, the only self-service shops were Migros, the pioneering discounter of those days.
--- The choices were clearly a bit better BUT at a price. The entrance of Lidl and Aldi came at a good time to reduce the MI-CO duopoly which over the years had become the plague. Not least when EPA became victim of a "Swiss solution"

In the furniture business, the entrance of companies like Conforama, MI-Casa, Top-Tip, etc brought the prices down in a tremendous way.

In the 1960ies, Eschenmoser and Photo-Hobby brought down the prices for photographic material. And so, I in London in late 72 was shocked that prices for photographic materials in London were about 200% of the same stuff in Zurich. Did this mean that either the choice or quality was better there ? Sure not.

Services ? You may specify what "services" you have in mind as inferior
Products ? You may specify what "products" are of lower quality
Lack of choices ? Are we talking about various sorts of brown sugar
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  #36  
Old 12.06.2011, 00:48
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Re: World's Most Expensive Cities 2011

Let's keep on topic. If anyone wants to discuss inferior product and service range and quality at inflated prices, they can create a new thread. Or maybe there's already one (hundred, or more) knocking around somewhere on EF.
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Old 12.06.2011, 00:55
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Re: World's Most Expensive Cities 2011

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I think it had more to do with Switzerland being the world's laundromat (and I don't mean dirty linen).
Take Zurich for example...a complete lack of available apartments. If you do manage to get an apartment, you can expect to pay an absurd amount of money for it....in exchange you have the luxury of having an assigned wash day (most likely every 2 weeks), no a/c and most likely no parking space either. Which brings me to the next category...traffic. None of these studies measure traffic per capita. Somehow Zurich always manages to get clogged up...back in the days, when I used to drive, I took me more than 1 hour to get into town..and for a city this size, it is simply inexcusable. Another thing is the complete lack of choices pertaining to any product/service. I find it even outrageous, that certain establishments charge 20%? extra if your purchase food after 10pm. I could go on with this...my point is, these studies are heavily skewed and certainly don't represent reality.
> no it had nothing to do with "die Schweiz wäscht weisser". The criteria of those studies in no way referred to the chance to "wash" your money
> I have two lists of former school-mates. We all lived inside the political city of Zürich, but NOW, most of us live in "suburbia"
> no, I have at least one washing time per week, and some multi-member families have up to three washing times per week, and this in a house with 22 apartments
> Zurich and Geneva are narrrow cities by geography and as a result of the local mentalities. So that the two cities in regard to private transport are increasingly at their end is obvious and clear.
> "a city of this size" ? what size do you mean ? Size is a minor thing, the more important thing is geography and topography. Sure, to drive from Paddington to LHR does not take you more time than to drive from Wollishofen to ZRH, which is ridiculous in a way. But you possibly are aware that there were plans for a tunnel below the lake in order to reduce traffic congestion
>>>> and so, why did you not use public transport ? I might accept your argument, were you at least 75 years old
> there are establishments who charge more after 22.00 or 23.00 or 24.00 . While I do not welcome this or appreciate it, I have seen this elsewhere and regard it as fairly normal.
> Choice of products ? Ever realized that Switzerland in total has the size of Greater London or Greater Paris ? Ever realized that the "choice" par-arrondissment in Paris is not exactly impressive ? Ever realized that the choice in the NottingHillGate/Queensway-Bayswater/Paddington area has its clear limits ?
> Service ? What service exactly do you have in mind ? In regard to trucking, you have dozens of trucking companies. In regard to airfreight, you have more than 250 aircargo-forwarders. In regard to seafreight, you have more than 100 seafreight-forwarders at hand. For the transport of households you have dozens of specialists around. Dozens of computer companies try to get your preference. The same in regard to cleaning. Lots of hotels try to get you as a customer. Where is the lack ?
> and finally to these studies. The problems are that
A) they can only be based on criteria fixed by somebody
B) they are done by people living in the centre of the company in question who again have to base their data on info delivered by correspondents
C) they take things as absolutes. I mean, while rice is THE predominant foodstuff in many areas of the world, it may not be so elsewhere. Please go to some Olten restaurants and check who eats rice !?! Not so many customers in fact. And this is representative for German speaking Switzerland
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Old 12.06.2011, 01:03
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Re: World's Most Expensive Cities 2011

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Although I will say it seems the US$ is cheap if we were to really compare the stats. The US is still the cheapest place for a large, good quality meal. What other westernized country can you get a 3 bedroom, 2 bathroom in a gated community for under $100,000?
THat would assume you would want to live where this place exists. I'm guessing it's not in any city I'd want to live it. But I could be wrong.


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I...my point is, these studies are heavily skewed and certainly don't represent reality.
No. They don't represent your reality and your criteria. Those were not used in the survey. They used other criteria.
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Old 12.06.2011, 01:25
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Re: World's Most Expensive Cities 2011

But surely one measure of some place being expensive or cheap is the quality or amount of any particular good or service you get for a given price. Of course I have no idea (and can't be bothered to read at this time of night) how the original survey arrived at their conclusion.

The poster from Portugal made a fairly good point - for example what do you class as a "quick lunch"? In CH, a lot of people have their main meal at lunchtime - at least where I work. In the UK, most people grab a sandwich. It's all relative in the end.

Cheers,
Nick

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Let's keep on topic. If anyone wants to discuss inferior product and service range and quality at inflated prices, they can create a new thread. Or maybe there's already one (hundred, or more) knocking around somewhere on EF.
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Old 12.06.2011, 01:29
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Re: World's Most Expensive Cities 2011

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THat would assume you would want to live where this place exists. I'm guessing it's not in any city I'd want to live it. But I could be wrong.
.
Miami... Not everyones first choice but we managed to get a nice 2 bd 2 bth HOUSE (as apposed to an apartment) for $55k for my parents in a retirement community.
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