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  #41  
Old 12.06.2011, 00:33
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Re: World's Most Expensive Cities 2011

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THat would assume you would want to live where this place exists. I'm guessing it's not in any city I'd want to live it. But I could be wrong.
If you wish to cover the topic of cheap houses in places no one wants to live you could always go here. If this house were in Switzerland it would go for about 5mn CHF...

http://www.trulia.com/property/30081...troit-MI-48202

All black neighborhoods are famous for this kind of value in the States.
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Old 12.06.2011, 00:35
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Re: World's Most Expensive Cities 2011

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Based on what? The garbage mercer study?
You have to be a fool to believe that Swiss cities really top the list in terms of living standard. Do you think that people who conduct these studies have actually every lived in either city mentioned in the study? I doubt it!


Eh?

No, I don't believe the people who conduct the studies actually go and live in all the cities. That would be a nonsensical way to conduct any survey. I don't understand your point, and I don't much like being called a fool for no reason.

We all know how these studies are compiled. They have an index of factors they think make up life quality. Stuff like crime rate, political stability, disposable income, economy, health, education, housing, likelihood of earthquakes etc.

I'm not saying these are the right criteria, but it's what they choose, and they don't seem that unreasonable to me. They then collect data from public sources based on these things.

You're famously whiney about Switzerland but most of us seem to appreciate that this is a pretty high quality environment. I can't say I've lived in a lot of countries but compared with the last 3 places I've lived -- London, Hong Kong, Scotland, this place wins hands down.




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  #43  
Old 12.06.2011, 00:38
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Re: World's Most Expensive Cities 2011

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The poster from Portugal made a fairly good point - for example what do you class as a "quick lunch"? In CH, a lot of people have their main meal at lunchtime - at least where I work. In the UK, most people grab a sandwich. It's all relative in the end.
I looked for the criteria on what a "quick lunch" is but couldn't find it. Maybe someone else will have better luck. I just can't imagine a 3 course meal in a sit down restaurant is considered a "quick lunch". But who knows.
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Old 12.06.2011, 00:51
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I looked for the criteria on what a "quick lunch" is but couldn't find it. Maybe someone else will have better luck. I just can't imagine a 3 course meal in a sit down restaurant is considered a "quick lunch". But who knows.
Maybe they were referring to fast food? (i.e. Big Mac Index) My brother inlaw is a down-home American and when he saw the prices at the local Zurich Burger King he had a heart attack. The prices are 5x as expensive in CH according to him. I dont know if its that bad. But Im sure its not as expensive as the US.

But I agree. A "quick lunch" seems like a sandwich from coop and a drink.
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Old 12.06.2011, 01:52
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Re: World's Most Expensive Cities 2011

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I looked for the criteria on what a "quick lunch" is but couldn't find it. Maybe someone else will have better luck. I just can't imagine a 3 course meal in a sit down restaurant is considered a "quick lunch". But who knows.
That is not what i meant. Not the definition of a quick lunch but:

There is no such thing as quick meal in Portugal. Nobody eats a sandwich at lunch.

At least 2 course meal. I lived there 29 years in 4 cities.
You always have soup, bread, meal and sometimes desert (it is called lunch menu).

I just want to say that we can not compare expensive or not. Americans are used to refills.

We can compare cost of things but not the cost of style of living. They say: In roma be roman.

But there are things i think you do not want to change when you move.

For example, for me it is important to define a hapiness index. In my experience, in Zurich you can buy things (purchase power) but i do not see happiness all around.
In the daily life i prefer spain (ibiza, mallorca), Portugal, Brasil for happiness even without power purchase. The quality comes from the spirit of people not the purchase power.
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  #46  
Old 12.06.2011, 05:49
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Re: World's Most Expensive Cities 2011

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That is not what i meant. Not the definition of a quick lunch but:
I don't think I was replying to you there. But anyway, there has to be some sort criteria/definition for what the survey intends as a "quick lunch". If anyone finds it let me know.

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There is no such thing as quick meal in Portugal.
Of there is. There are plenty of bakeries, counters, snacks, cafe/tea rooms type places where you can pop in and have sometimes quick pretty much any time of the day if you are on the run or don't have lots of money. You don't even need to sit down in some of them.

Regardless, no city in Portugal made the cut for most expensive city so it's not really important what a 'quick lunch' in Portugal consist of.

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For example, for me it is important to define a hapiness index. In my experience, in Zurich you can buy things (purchase power) but i do not see happiness all around.
This is probably not the survey for you. You may be more interested in a different survey. There are plenty of them around.
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Old 12.06.2011, 06:40
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Re: World's Most Expensive Cities 2011

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This is probably not the survey for you. You may be more interested in a different survey. There are plenty of them around.
The idea that you could have a quality of life survey and dismiss that it makes no mention of people's happiness says perhaps the most about Switzerland of all. What is quality of life without the measure of happiness ?
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Old 12.06.2011, 06:42
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Re: World's Most Expensive Cities 2011

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I'd rather be poor, bills all paid, in Switzerland. Those mountains are free.
Difficult to know really until you are poor. Then things look rather a lot different.
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Old 12.06.2011, 07:45
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Re: World's Most Expensive Cities 2011

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You're famously whiney about Switzerland but most of us seem to appreciate that this is a pretty high quality environment. I can't say I've lived in a lot of countries but compared with the last 3 places I've lived -- London, Hong Kong, Scotland, this place wins hands down.
...but this is what I don't get. How can you call this a high quality environment? Please tell me, why you think Switzerland is better than Hong Kong?
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Old 12.06.2011, 08:01
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Re: World's Most Expensive Cities 2011

I normally buy a pack of ham slices and a bread roll at the Migrolino on the way to work. A large bread roll is about SFr1.50, the ham about SFr5 - and this is enough for a few days. I just buy a fresh bread roll each day. The Turkish shop next to Migrolino has fruit - so I buy something there too. So I can manage lunch for less than SFr5 per day.

Cheers,
Nick

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Maybe they were referring to fast food? (i.e. Big Mac Index) My brother inlaw is a down-home American and when he saw the prices at the local Zurich Burger King he had a heart attack. The prices are 5x as expensive in CH according to him. I dont know if its that bad. But Im sure its not as expensive as the US.

But I agree. A "quick lunch" seems like a sandwich from coop and a drink.
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  #51  
Old 12.06.2011, 10:08
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Re: World's Most Expensive Cities 2011

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The idea that you could have a quality of life survey and dismiss that it makes no mention of people's happiness says perhaps the most about Switzerland of all. What is quality of life without the measure of happiness ?

Mercer is American
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Old 12.06.2011, 10:22
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Re: World's Most Expensive Cities 2011

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In Portugal, you pay 6 chf and you have starters, soup, main dish (and a main dish is twice the food here) and desert.
I used to eat out quite often in the US: 2-3 times per week. But dining out in CH is ungodly expensive. The total cost of a dinner for 2 in an average restaurant is somewhere at or above 100CHF. So, I eat at home a lot more. Dining out just isn't a pleasurable experience here.

P.S. IMHO, No "most expensive city" list is complete without the average cost of renting and utilities for a 100m2 apartment in the center of town. Housing costs are the biggest factor influencing disposible income.
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  #53  
Old 12.06.2011, 11:05
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Re: World's Most Expensive Cities 2011

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So, I eat at home a lot more. Dining out just isn't a pleasurable experience here.
Aint that the truth! I like my food and there are only so many freaking schnitzels I can stomach before I want some real variety. The restaurant scene in Bern is pretty lame.

PS comment about the survey. If Brisbane (read BrisBANALITY, Brisneyland, Brisvegas - these last two are of course sarcasms) can jump from nowhere to 21 you know its ALL EXCHANGE rate driven. London?
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Old 12.06.2011, 11:28
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Re: World's Most Expensive Cities 2011

At least São Paulo and Rio and VERY expensive, and I've heard that from British, Canadians and Swiss. I guess you'd be surprised if you ever visited.
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Old 12.06.2011, 11:50
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Re: World's Most Expensive Cities 2011

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Aint that the truth! I like my food and there are only so many freaking schnitzels I can stomach before I want some real variety. The restaurant scene in Bern is pretty lame.
To begin with, I'd suggest these Restaurants:

Casa Novo, Scala, Schosshalde, Dr Süder, Brasserie Bärengraben, Bellevue-Palace, Büner, Flo’s Restaurant, Meridiano, Metzgerstübli, Mille Sens, La Tavola Pronta, Veranda, Waldheim,Wein & Sein, Zimmermania Le Bistro, Eiger, Landhaus, Mosspinte, Auszeit, Kornhauskeller, Verdi, Haberbüni…
If you eat Schnitzel in these places, it is actually your fault...
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Old 12.06.2011, 12:34
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Re: World's Most Expensive Cities 2011

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...but this is what I don't get. How can you call this a high quality environment? Please tell me, why you think Switzerland is better than Hong Kong?
I'll start my answer with 6 crucial words:

For me and for my needs, Switzerland is a high quality environment. In my experience, the living accommodation is excellent; things usually get done efficiently and well; I feel no tension or fear of crime, even late at night in Zurich; the public transport system is extensive, well-priced, and rarely overcrowded; from my windows I see the lake and the mountains; the schools are good; the politics and politicians don't get in my way; food is good quality; the attitude towards recycling and sustainability aligns with my own; at the weekend we can be in the mountains in minutes on well-marked trails. And so on. Overall, there is an overwhelming sense of a nation in control of itself, and I like this.

Yes, if you are buying everything with US dollars, the place will seem incredibly expensive. But if you're paying with CHF, things are about the same price as I paid in the UK, or even cheaper (given that my salary has just about doubled, and taxes are much lower).

As for Hong Kong, I love many things about the place, but in terms of quality of life, it comes nowhere near Switzerland for me. HK is overcrowded, noisy and for the periods of the year I was there, the climate was unpleasant -- too hot, humid, sticky, and too much rain. Life on the islands and on the beaches could be great but unfortunately I was always working and living in the crazy places.

I can see that if I was in my early 20s and unmarried, I might be happier in somewhere less peaceful than Switzerland, but that's not my situation. I'm looking for quality of life, not social mania.

Life isn't perfect anywhere on the planet, and it follows that life isn't perfect here. But you have to be grown-up enough to work out a strategy for dealing with the shortcomings of any place. Maybe I used to have a choice of 20 breakfast cereals in the UK and have only 10 here. But if that sums up the worst problem with living here.... well, I reckon I'll learn to cope somehow.
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Old 12.06.2011, 12:40
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Re: World's Most Expensive Cities 2011

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That is not what i meant. Not the definition of a quick lunch but:

There is no such thing as quick meal in Portugal. Nobody eats a sandwich at lunch.

At least 2 course meal. I lived there 29 years in 4 cities.
You always have soup, bread, meal and sometimes desert (it is called lunch menu).

I just want to say that we can not compare expensive or not. Americans are used to refills.

We can compare cost of things but not the cost of style of living. They say: In roma be roman.

But there are things i think you do not want to change when you move.

For example, for me it is important to define a hapiness index. In my experience, in Zurich you can buy things (purchase power) but i do not see happiness all around.
In the daily life i prefer spain (ibiza, mallorca), Portugal, Brasil for happiness even without power purchase. The quality comes from the spirit of people not the purchase power.
I see. So that my godfather in Geneva would have been an acceptable Portuguese. He at lunch always first had a soup (from the Schaffhausen/Stein-am-Rhein area as he was from S-a-R), followed by a first course with salad (from the Romandie) and as maincourse something with Paprika (as his wife was Hungarian). I can assure you, good old aunt Clara was NOT in the "baby-paprika" business . And that was followed by a nice dessert.
-
You do not see happiness all around ? Sorry, but you look around in vain. German-speakers trendwise are NOT "in pursuit of happiness" but active in pursuit of reasons to complain and to whine There even are "returnees" who mostly are exceedingly conservative and so will always tell stories about this or that having been so much better there and overthere, and are seriously out of their mind when you tell them that you know this or that place, and enquire about details.
---- so sorry, but if you have come to Zurich in the quest to see people moved by happiness, you are a tiny bit OFF-target
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Old 12.06.2011, 12:59
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Re: World's Most Expensive Cities 2011

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I'll start my answer with 6 crucial words:

For me and for my needs, Switzerland is a high quality environment. In my experience, the living accommodation is excellent; things usually get done efficiently and well; I feel no tension or fear of crime, even late at night in Zurich; the public transport system is extensive, well-priced, and rarely overcrowded; from my windows I see the lake and the mountains; the schools are good; the politics and politicians don't get in my way; food is good quality; the attitude towards recycling and sustainability aligns with my own; at the weekend we can be in the mountains in minutes on well-marked trails. And so on. Overall, there is an overwhelming sense of a nation in control of itself, and I like this.

Yes, if you are buying everything with US dollars, the place will seem incredibly expensive. But if you're paying with CHF, things are about the same price as I paid in the UK, or even cheaper (given that my salary has just about doubled, and taxes are much lower).

As for Hong Kong, I love many things about the place, but in terms of quality of life, it comes nowhere near Switzerland for me. HK is overcrowded, noisy and for the periods of the year I was there, the climate was unpleasant -- too hot, humid, sticky, and too much rain. Life on the islands and on the beaches could be great but unfortunately I was always working and living in the crazy places.

I can see that if I was in my early 20s and unmarried, I might be happier in somewhere less peaceful than Switzerland, but that's not my situation. I'm looking for quality of life, not social mania.

Life isn't perfect anywhere on the planet, and it follows that life isn't perfect here. But you have to be grown-up enough to work out a strategy for dealing with the shortcomings of any place. Maybe I used to have a choice of 20 breakfast cereals in the UK and have only 10 here. But if that sums up the worst problem with living here.... well, I reckon I'll learn to cope somehow.


Couldn't agree more with the above. The original survey (as all surveys/reports are) is skewed to reflect the point the author's (or whoever commissioned the survey) own points, so they're bound to provide you the highest cost for things they could find. Average is average, extremes are sensational, which is kind of what the list is trying to highlight (I think?). What the report doesn't (and probably can't) reflect is the value of everything, the whole package, but that's a different subject.

What you pay for here, like anywhere, completely depends on where you get it and what you want. If, for example you want to drink a pint of famous dark ale from Dublin over here, then by God you pay for it! Life is expensive here, there's no doubting that, but in general and from what I've worked out in my 4 months here is that it's all relative to what people earn. You generally get what you pay for in life and you get out what you put in. I knew that before I came out here and I chose to come out here with work, so if I don't like it - tough. I earn more now than I did in the UK, but I also pay more here for things here. Compared to what I would have back in the UK and what I now have in terms of "value of life", I would much rather pay for more for things here without hesitation.
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Old 12.06.2011, 17:04
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Re: World's Most Expensive Cities 2011

I've had this survey bookmarked for a while now.
You might have fun with it.
http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/
You can rate each criteria and then get the country best for you.


I can't find a newer survey. This one is from 2006 & I KNOW we talked about it at the time. Anyone have a newer one?
Happiness:

The 20 happiest nations in the World are:
1. Denmark
2. Switzerland
3. Austria
4. Iceland
5. The Bahamas
6. Finland
7. Sweden
8. Bhutan
9. Brunei
10. Canada
11. Ireland
12. Luxembourg
13. Costa Rica
14. Malta
15. The Netherlands
16. Antigua and Barbuda
17. Malaysia
18. New Zealand
19. Norway
20. The Seychelles

Other notable results include:
23. USA
35. Germany
41. UK
62. France
82. China
90. Japan
125. India
167. Russia

The three least happy countries were:
176. Democratic Republic of the Congo
177. Zimbabwe
178. Burundi
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Old 12.06.2011, 20:38
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Re: World's Most Expensive Cities 2011

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I've had this survey bookmarked for a while now.
You might have fun with it.
http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/
You can rate each criteria and then get the country best for you.


I can't find a newer survey. This one is from 2006 & I KNOW we talked about it at the time. Anyone have a newer one?
Happiness:

The 20 happiest nations in the World are:
1. Denmark
2. Switzerland
So, how does this work out with the extremely high suicide rate of this country?
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