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  #81  
Old 13.06.2011, 19:24
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Re: World's Most Expensive Cities 2011

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Whether they are old or new has nothing to do with how expensive they are ...

Munich, London, Edinburgh, Barcelona, Rome, Madrid, Stockholm all have great old centres to them - even though many were bombed heavily - ok , not Paris, as they surrendered at the first sound of pistols being taken out of holsters ....
The only issue here is the current currency issues - the yen and the CHF are stupidly high - hence the cities are the most expensive. Hardly a shock TBH.
CH is very expensive to live in. TBH quality of life can be good, but it is about as much fun as a morgue ! Whilst the Swiss revel in the CHF getting stronger , how long will it be before it affects exports and tourism ... and the financial sector. Sure everyone was happy to move money here ... but not when it is worth pish all against the CHF....

Obviously true. I wasn't trying to make a comment on world economics and currency exchanges via city infrastructure age.

I just noticed that the used pictures of sleek high-rise sky lines for most of the cities where Zurich jumps in with essentially no high-rises at all.

Again--not saying that sleek high-rises means a city is expensive. Just throwing an observation out there.
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  #82  
Old 13.06.2011, 19:47
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Re: World's Most Expensive Cities 2011

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Obviously true. I wasn't trying to make a comment on world economics and currency exchanges via city infrastructure age.

I just noticed that the used pictures of sleek high-rise sky lines for most of the cities where Zurich jumps in with essentially no high-rises at all.

Again--not saying that sleek high-rises means a city is expensive. Just throwing an observation out there.
Yeah, but your observation bares a critical point. Whilst most other cities managed to advance and modernize, we still battle with laundry cycles and other backwards infrastructure.
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Old 13.06.2011, 20:11
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Re: World's Most Expensive Cities 2011

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It's a shame you're so miserable here. What is the real root of your dissatisfaction? If we can safely assume that Switzerland will not change to help you, have you considered how you can try to change to accommodate this barbaric nation?
What is my beef with this place? Hmm, where do I start....for one, nothing seems to work. The pathetic approach of Switzerland trying to sell products for instance. This must be the only place on earth, where a country is telling the customer when to purchase its products/services. Here some few examples...most likely, you haven't really thought about this..but I urge you to run it through your head and give me an honest feedback. The case of Listerine. Listerine is the number one mouthwash (in the world). You can purchase Listerine at any gas station in India, Jamaica, Canada, Mexico....right across the border in Marktkauf, they're available in 4-5? different flavors at a fraction of the cost which regular, weak mouthwash costs in Switzerland. Where can you get Listerine here? Only at a few chosen pharmacies for a terribly inflated price. This falls into the category of "availability of goods and services". Another example, cough syrup. Regular, simple cough syrup. You cannot purchase it outside of a pharmacy because of the stupid monopolistic approach to everything. Now, I know somebody who was in dire need of some cough syrup..and there are no 24h pharmacies in Olten..she had to go to the emergency room to get some. Again "availability of goods and services". I was in need of a plunger on a Saturday evening...I had to wait until Monday to buy one. Felix cat food on the box displays 6 magnificent different flavors that are available. In Switzerland, I only managed to come across 2 and in big boxes at that. Marktkauf right across the border sells all 6 flavors in various sizes. See my point? By no means, could you classify this lack of products/service as first world; if in third world places, I had everything readily available. I could go on about this...just the other day, I was at the Migrolino in Grenchen, right by the trainstation..I thought I'd pick up some snacks...they had Dorito chips (the ones to dip)..but no dip. It is oh so typical. How the ferk can you sell chips to dip without the dip? As I said, I can keep on going with this...the big restaurant right by the lake in Zug. Naturally, Sundays are very busy days for touristy places...therefore, the restaurant came up with the wonderful ideal of serving dessert only during the week. On weekends you're supposed to get up and go to the "dessert buffet" yourself (a table with the grand choice of 3 cakes ). Mind you, Zug is not a cheap place...and the desserts weren't cheap either..but I could expect not having to get up of my seat to get some. As I said, I could go on. Mind you, I don't care to pay for premium prices, if I get a premium product/service in return..but this clearly isn't the case in Switzerland. For everything you have to wait a horrendous long time and the prices being charged for it are astronomical.

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  #84  
Old 13.06.2011, 21:40
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Re: World's Most Expensive Cities 2011

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What is my beef with this place? Hmm, where do I start....for one, nothing seems to work. The pathetic approach of Switzerland trying to sell products for instance. This must be the only place on earth, where a country is telling the customer when to purchase its products/services. Here some few examples...most likely, you haven't really thought about this..but I urge you to run it through your head and give me an honest feedback. The case of Listerine. Listerine is the number one mouthwash (in the world). You can purchase Listerine at any gas station in India, Jamaica, Canada, Mexico....right across the border in Marktkauf, they're available in 4-5? different flavors at a fraction of the cost which regular, weak mouthwash costs in Switzerland. Where can you get Listerine here? Only at a few chosen pharmacies for a terribly inflated price. This falls into the category of "availability of goods and services". Another example, cough syrup. Regular, simple cough syrup. You cannot purchase it outside of a pharmacy because of the stupid monopolistic approach to everything. Now, I know somebody who was in dire need of some cough syrup..and there are no 24h pharmacies in Olten..she had to go to the emergency room to get some. Again "availability of goods and services". I was in need of a plunger on a Saturday evening...I had to wait until Monday to buy one. Felix cat food on the box displays 6 magnificent different flavors available. In Switzerland, I only managed to come across 2 and in big boxes at that. Marktkauf right across the border sell all 6 flavors in various sizes. See my point? By no means, could you classify this lack of products/service as first world; if in third world places, I had everything readily available. I could go on about this...just the other day, I was at the Migrolino in Grenchen, right by the trainstation..I thought I'd pick up some snacks...they had Dorito chips (the ones to dip)..but not dip. It is oh so typical. How the ferk can you sell chips to dip without the dip? As I said, I can keep on going with this...the big restaurant right by the lake in Zug. Naturally, Sundays are very busy days for touristy places...therefore, the restaurant came with a wonderful ideal oh serving dessert only during the week. On weekends you're supposed to get up yourself and go to the "dessert buffet" (a table with the grand choice of 3 cakes ). Mind you, Zug is not a cheap place...and the desserts weren't cheap either..but I could expect not having to get up of my seat to get some. As I said, I could go on. Mind you, I don't care to pay for premium prices, if I get a premium product/service in return..but this clearly isn't the case in Switzerland. For everything you have to wait a horrendous long time and the prices being charged for it are astronomical.
Switzerland is a nation of 7 million people. You can't expect them to have megastore supermarkets everywhere with dozens of different flavours of your favourite cat food.

I'll have to take your word for it that you can buy Listerine at any Indian or Jamaican gas station, but tell me -- how many flavours of Felix or Doritos would you find in the average Indian or Jamaican or Mexican high street?

This is what exasperates me: you ignore all the massive pleasures of Switzerland, just as you ignore all the massive life-quality problems with India and Jamaica and Mexico. Instead, all you really submit in evidence is your miserable Doritos and catfood, and other trivialities.

Have you ever actually written to Migros and asked them to stock Listerine? They won't know there is a demand unless you tell them.

Suck it up, old chap. Eating a bag of Doritos without the dip is really not a reason to get a downer on an entire nation. And Migrolino are the small convenience stores, aren't they? They never have a full range of goods available.

You seem to have allowed very minor inconveniences to become some sort of hairshirt that you love to show off in public. To be honest, it's a little bit boring, like having someone on your team at work who is always pessimistic and complaining about everything.

You've mentioned the washing facilities in apartment blocks a couple of times. For me, this is a perfectly good system that allows me to avoid carting over my washing machine from the UK and having to get it plumbed in. So while I see it as an advantage, you manage to turn it into something else to have a moan about. Maybe you're living in a particularly bad place but for me, and most people I know here, we can do our washing pretty much when we want, using a well-maintained communal facility. If I don't like it, I can make my own arrangements. Not a big deal.

Why not try dealing with these terrible problems you relate? If you think there is a market for Listerine, why not import and sell it?

Or, second possibility is that you come up with a way of coping with these cat food hammer blows by changing your own attitude. It's what most of us do. I can't tell you how much I miss a decent pint of English bitter. But I don't go around moaning about how terrible Switzerland is because it doesn't sell what this expat likes most. It's not a negative reflection on them that they don't sell cask-conditioned dark ale. It's just how it is. It was part of the equation when deciding whether to come here or not. The way I dealt with it was to decide to learn something about Swiss and German beer, and Swiss wine -- and a very enjoyable diversion it's been too.

A third option, and one I fear you will take -- is to do nothing but carry on moaning about how awful Switzerland is, and how much better life in India and Jamaica is because their gas stations sell Listerine.
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  #85  
Old 13.06.2011, 21:40
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Re: World's Most Expensive Cities 2011

What he said haha it is so true.
I was just thinking about all the monopolies they got here.
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  #86  
Old 13.06.2011, 22:55
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Re: World's Most Expensive Cities 2011

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Good ! The suiciders are not UNhappy but gone, and no longer count
Many suicide victims were terminally ill not just plain old "unhappy".


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What is my beef with this place? snip
I want to be understanding. I really really do. I get you don't like it in CH and I went through a bit of that when I first signed up here back in '06/'07. Not nearly as severe. But I just can't imagine my happiness being determined by the # of cat food flavors or availability of Listerine. I'd bet money that's not what really is making you unhappy. But it could be. What do I know.

I could go on to suggest what I think you should do. But I'll refrain. If you want my opinion on that, let me know.
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Old 13.06.2011, 23:11
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Re: World's Most Expensive Cities 2011

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Whether they are old or new has nothing to do with how expensive they are ...

Munich, London, Edinburgh, Barcelona, Rome, Madrid, Stockholm all have great old centres to them - even though many were bombed heavily - ok , not Paris, as they surrendered at the first sound of pistols being taken out of holsters ....
The only issue here is the current currency issues - the yen and the CHF are stupidly high - hence the cities are the most expensive. Hardly a shock TBH.
CH is very expensive to live in. TBH quality of life can be good, but it is about as much fun as a morgue ! Whilst the Swiss revel in the CHF getting stronger , how long will it be before it affects exports and tourism ... and the financial sector. Sure everyone was happy to move money here ... but not when it is worth pish all against the CHF....
A) While some of those cities mentioned were bombarded, Barcelona, Madrid, Rome and Stockholm were not
B) Paris ? The government did not surrender at all but tried to defend against the onslaught. That their Supreme Commander surrendered, having had the big battles of WW-I in his mind, is a different chapter.
C) Fun ? What cities are "fun" ?
Milano ? Lyon ? Stuttgart ? Strassburg ? Konstanz ? Torino ?
D) No, the Swiss do not revel in the CHF getting out of control. It already HAS already effected industry and inbound-tourism quite disastrously. Switzerland already has invested many billions of CHF into the Euro. The effect was around, but far from what was desired. Switzerland, both by loss-making industries and by loss-making touristic places already is badly hit.
D-2) while the SVP has launched a program to wreck the Bilaterals (again) all the present developments are likely to result in the end of the CHF, as a currency which cannot be controlled by the National Bank but is in the hands of some outside-speculators is a completely hopeless case and ought to be dropped, the sooner the better
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Old 13.06.2011, 23:12
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Re: World's Most Expensive Cities 2011

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Good ! The suiciders are not UNhappy but gone, and no longer count
Why do you need to come out with comments like these?
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  #89  
Old 13.06.2011, 23:18
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Re: World's Most Expensive Cities 2011

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Yeah, but your observation bares a critical point. Whilst most other cities managed to advance and modernize, we still battle with laundry cycles and other backwards infrastructure.
Zürich, and some other cities in CH, HAVE advanced and modernized and improved their infrastructures. While the traffic infrastructure of Zurich in the 1960ies and 70ies was backward, it now is among the top in Europe.
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Old 13.06.2011, 23:20
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Re: World's Most Expensive Cities 2011

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Zürich, and some other cities in CH, HAVE advanced and modernized and improved their infrastructures. While the traffic infrastructure of Zurich in the 1960ies and 70ies was backward, it now is among the top in Europe.
Bloody hell, a German saying the Swiss are good. A first mybe!!
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Old 13.06.2011, 23:21
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Re: World's Most Expensive Cities 2011

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What is my beef with this place? Hmm, where do I start....for one, nothing seems to work. The pathetic approach of Switzerland trying to sell products for instance. This must be the only place on earth, where a country is telling the customer when to purchase its products/services. Here some few examples...most likely, you haven't really thought about this..but I urge you to run it through your head and give me an honest feedback. The case of Listerine. Listerine is the number one mouthwash (in the world). You can purchase Listerine at any gas station in India, Jamaica, Canada, Mexico....right across the border in Marktkauf, they're available in 4-5? different flavors at a fraction of the cost which regular, weak mouthwash costs in Switzerland. Where can you get Listerine here? Only at a few chosen pharmacies for a terribly inflated price. This falls into the category of "availability of goods and services". Another example, cough syrup. Regular, simple cough syrup. You cannot purchase it outside of a pharmacy because of the stupid monopolistic approach to everything. Now, I know somebody who was in dire need of some cough syrup..and there are no 24h pharmacies in Olten..she had to go to the emergency room to get some. Again "availability of goods and services". I was in need of a plunger on a Saturday evening...I had to wait until Monday to buy one. Felix cat food on the box displays 6 magnificent different flavors that are available. In Switzerland, I only managed to come across 2 and in big boxes at that. Marktkauf right across the border sells all 6 flavors in various sizes. See my point? By no means, could you classify this lack of products/service as first world; if in third world places, I had everything readily available. I could go on about this...just the other day, I was at the Migrolino in Grenchen, right by the trainstation..I thought I'd pick up some snacks...they had Dorito chips (the ones to dip)..but no dip. It is oh so typical. How the ferk can you sell chips to dip without the dip? As I said, I can keep on going with this...the big restaurant right by the lake in Zug. Naturally, Sundays are very busy days for touristy places...therefore, the restaurant came up with the wonderful ideal of serving dessert only during the week. On weekends you're supposed to get up and go to the "dessert buffet" yourself (a table with the grand choice of 3 cakes ). Mind you, Zug is not a cheap place...and the desserts weren't cheap either..but I could expect not having to get up of my seat to get some. As I said, I could go on. Mind you, I don't care to pay for premium prices, if I get a premium product/service in return..but this clearly isn't the case in Switzerland. For everything you have to wait a horrendous long time and the prices being charged for it are astronomical.

Anyplace that makes Helsinki look worldly and cheap, seriously needs to re-evaluate it's relevance in the EU. Also, any burger king that makes me wait more than 10 minutes for a whopper doesn't under-fing stand what fast food means. Hello, switzerland, Imatalkintoyou.
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Old 13.06.2011, 23:26
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Re: World's Most Expensive Cities 2011

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What is my beef with this place? Hmm, where do I start....for one, nothing seems to work.
-
Nothing seems to work ? Everything seems to work here. But I of course lack the experience of the Solothurnese Prairies !


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The pathetic approach of Switzerland trying to sell products for instance. This must be the only place on earth, where a country is telling the customer when to purchase its products/services.
-
Paris therefore is no place ? Folks there clearly tell you where you are to purchase things, ehmmm even VERY clearly !


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Here some few examples...most likely, you haven't really thought about this..but I urge you to run it through your head and give me an honest feedback. The case of Listerine. Listerine is the number one mouthwash (in the world). You can purchase Listerine at any gas station in India, Jamaica, Canada, Mexico....right across the border in Marktkauf, they're available in 4-5? different flavors at a fraction of the cost which regular, weak mouthwash costs in Switzerland. Where can you get Listerine here? Only at a few chosen pharmacies for a terribly inflated price. This falls into the category of "availability of goods and services". Another example, cough syrup.
-
I never purchased "Listerine", so what ? and mouthwash ? I have my toothpaste and my toothbrush and this is what I need


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Regular, simple cough syrup. You cannot purchase it outside of a pharmacy because of the stupid monopolistic approach to everything. Now, I know somebody who was in dire need of some cough syrup..and there are no 24h pharmacies in Olten..she had to go to the emergency room to get some.
-
Cough syrup is availabe in places like Migros etc. And there are two 24hrs pharmacies at Bellevue in Zürich .... and Basel apparently http://www.notfallapothekebasel.ch/oeffnungszeiten.html also has such a place ... so what


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Again "availability of goods and services". I was in need of a plunger on a Saturday evening...I had to wait until Monday to buy one.
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such special services on weekends in most places are scarce. If you now want to tell me about Western places where this is different I simply refuse to accept the story


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Felix cat food on the box displays 6 magnificent different flavors that are available. In Switzerland, I only managed to come across 2 and in big boxes at that. Marktkauf right across the border sells all 6 flavors in various sizes. See my point?
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Marktkauf across the border is catering largely for a Swiss clientele. And how many kilometers is it from Olten to the border ? And why does it have to be "Felix" ?


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By no means, could you classify this lack of products/service as first world; if in third world places, I had everything readily available. I could go on about this...just the other day, I was at the Migrolino in Grenchen, right by the trainstation..I thought I'd pick up some snacks...they had Dorito chips (the ones to dip)..but no dip. It is oh so typical. How the ferk can you sell chips to dip without the dip?
-
A) what has all this to do with "first world" and "third world" ? Many places in the so-called "third-world" have some really tremendous shops
B) what you encountered at Migrolino simply was as mistake .... but aren't you with their competitioner by chance ???



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As I said, I can keep on going with this...the big restaurant right by the lake in Zug. Naturally, Sundays are very busy days for touristy places...therefore, the restaurant came up with the wonderful ideal of serving dessert only during the week. On weekends you're supposed to get up and go to the "dessert buffet" yourself (a table with the grand choice of 3 cakes ). Mind you, Zug is not a cheap place...and the desserts weren't cheap either..but I could expect not having to get up of my seat to get some. As I said, I could go on.
-
the lack of service of those restaurants in Zug on the lake is almost "traditional". My parents for years in the 70ies and 80ies loved to go to two restaurants there on Sunday but somewhere in the 80ies stopped going there, giving lousy service and deteriorating quality as their reason. That places like Rapallo and St. Tropez are similar is not an excuse but shows the problem


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Mind you, I don't care to pay for premium prices, if I get a premium product/service in return..but this clearly isn't the case in Switzerland. For everything you have to wait a horrendous long time
-
And here you go again ! "Premium prices" have nothing to do with either "premium service" or "premium products".
-
And no, I usually have NOT to wait a horrendous long time
-

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Old 13.06.2011, 23:56
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Re: World's Most Expensive Cities 2011

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Why do you need to come out with comments like these?
Because this is the reality !!

A) Many "suiciders" are NOT Swiss nationals anyway but foreigners who travel to Switzerland to be helped OUT
B) People who do suicide no longer participate in opinion polls
C) Whomever commits suicide no longer can be UNhappy
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Old 14.06.2011, 00:52
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Re: World's Most Expensive Cities 2011

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C) Fun ? What cities are "fun" ?
Milano ? Lyon ? Stuttgart ? Strassburg ? Konstanz ? Torino ?
emm.... NYC (Meatpacking district, SoHo, BK), Rio, Miami, Cancun, Barcelona, San Diego, even Zurich (Langstrasse) can be a lot of fun.
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Old 14.06.2011, 02:12
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Re: World's Most Expensive Cities 2011

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emm.... NYC (Meatpacking district, SoHo, BK), Rio, Miami, Cancun, Barcelona, San Diego, even Zurich (Langstrasse) can be a lot of fun.
Sure, even Konstanz, Strassburg, Torino and Milano can be lot of fun, but most cities in the world in most places are not really
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Old 14.06.2011, 02:26
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Bloody hell, a German saying the Swiss are good. A first mybe!!
A what?!......
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Old 14.06.2011, 07:17
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Re: World's Most Expensive Cities 2011

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-
Nothing seems to work ? Everything seems to work here. But I of course lack the experience of the Solothurnese Prairies !



-
Paris therefore is no place ? Folks there clearly tell you where you are to purchase things, ehmmm even VERY clearly !



-
I never purchased "Listerine", so what ? and mouthwash ? I have my toothpaste and my toothbrush and this is what I need



-
Cough syrup is availabe in places like Migros etc. And there are two 24hrs pharmacies at Bellevue in Zürich .... and Basel apparently http://www.notfallapothekebasel.ch/oeffnungszeiten.html also has such a place ... so what



-
such special services on weekends in most places are scarce. If you now want to tell me about Western places where this is different I simply refuse to accept the story



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Marktkauf across the border is catering largely for a Swiss clientele. And how many kilometers is it from Olten to the border ? And why does it have to be "Felix" ?



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A) what has all this to do with "first world" and "third world" ? Many places in the so-called "third-world" have some really tremendous shops
B) what you encountered at Migrolino simply was as mistake .... but aren't you with their competitioner by chance ???




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the lack of service of those restaurants in Zug on the lake is almost "traditional". My parents for years in the 70ies and 80ies loved to go to two restaurants there on Sunday but somewhere in the 80ies stopped going there, giving lousy service and deteriorating quality as their reason. That places like Rapallo and St. Tropez are similar is not an excuse but shows the problem



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And here you go again ! "Premium prices" have nothing to do with either "premium service" or "premium products".
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And no, I usually have NOT to wait a horrendous long time
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Wolli, once again you completely missed the point.




I took you to school in "Backwards Switzerland" and won't hesitate to do it again on this thread.

Last edited by lost_inbroad; 14.06.2011 at 08:15.
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Old 14.06.2011, 08:31
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Re: World's Most Expensive Cities 2011

About the cleanliness thing...

Recently we took a holiday in France, driving through the Burgundy and Rhône-Alps regions, then back into Switzerland at Geneva.

The French highways were just about pristine; well signed for directions and points of interest, and amazingly clean and green.

And then we crossed over the border. The contrast was quite a shock - it struck me for the first time how very dingy and dirty Switzerland has become, at least from a drive-through perspective. Graffitti everywhere along the roads - this wasn't Banksy-esqe art, this was vandalism/tagging pure and simple. And the litter!

Wow - France shiny clean, Switzerland looking rather unsavory - what is the world coming to?
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