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  #21  
Old 04.07.2011, 14:20
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Re: integration brochure

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On a second note: For a country that continuously complains that there are so many foreigners here who do everything wrong all the time... why don't they use the moment you immigrate better to inform the newcomers?

When I moved to the Netherlands, I did not get some ten page brochure, but a massive book with easy explanations on pretty much all topics that turn up on EF repeatedly:
- all permit laws explained
- am I allowed to work? basics on employment regulations...
- taxes
- health insurances
- banking
- property laws (how does renting a flat work...)
- basics on many cultural pitfalls

The book was full of advertisement targeted at newcomers, from phone companies over health insurances to banks, so I guess they did not need much tax money to produce it.
Also the NL has a webpage which is also in English www.ind.nl for immigration services...
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  #22  
Old 04.07.2011, 14:23
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Re: integration brochure

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On a second note: For a country that continuously complains that there are so many foreigners here who do everything wrong all the time... why don't they use the moment you immigrate better to inform the newcomers?
.
Because they actually enjoy telling you that you're doing everything wrong? With the hope that foreigners will eventually get tired of this and go back to wherever they came from...
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  #23  
Old 04.07.2011, 15:11
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Re: integration brochure

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On a second note: For a country that continuously complains that there are so many foreigners here who do everything wrong all the time... why don't they use the moment you immigrate better to inform the newcomers?

When I moved to the Netherlands, I did not get some ten page brochure, but a massive book with easy explanations on pretty much all topics that turn up on EF repeatedly:
- all permit laws explained
- am I allowed to work? basics on employment regulations...
- taxes
- health insurances
- banking
- property laws (how does renting a flat work...)
- basics on many cultural pitfalls

The book was full of advertisement targeted at newcomers, from phone companies over health insurances to banks, so I guess they did not need much tax money to produce it.
Put on your generalization cap today? All the Swiss are, Germany does, all French have....

I have to agree to the entire rest of your post, though.
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  #24  
Old 04.07.2011, 15:33
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Re: integration brochure

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Put on your generalization cap today? All the Swiss are, Germany does, all French have....

I have to agree to the entire rest of your post, though.
Well, I do not generalize about the people, but I can in this case generalize about the Swiss media: I do actually read the papers that tend to the political left, but even they piss me off daily when it comes to "Ausländer". And reading their forums below articles just make me shake my head.

Simple example: No German could give a thing that Ackermann (CEO of Deutsche Bank) is Swiss. They judge him by his actions, not his passport. UBS is currently looking for a new president of its board and the management suggests one of the best candidates one can think of. The Swiss media does report excessively about the fact that he is GERMAN (!)... (and since the UBS already has a GERMAN CEO, this is clearly a takeover...). Seriously 90% of the articles are exclusively about his nationality and the stock options and cash he would receive - there is hardly a word on his track record (which is btw pretty good). I talked about it with my Swiss colleagues at lunch, who knew exactly how much he would earn but have not the slightest clue what this man did previously (they mixed up Deutsche Bundesbank and Deutsche Bank...).

I can come up with five more examples - every single bloody day.

Journalists tend to write what their editors ask them to. Editors typically choose topics that sell papers... so yes, it is a topic here and my Swiss colleagues and friends love to discuss "foreigner topics" all the time. How about you?
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  #25  
Old 04.07.2011, 15:52
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Re: integration brochure

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Being a long time member here I can assure you that the stories from other people on the Internet are sure entertaining, but surely not more objective than this brochure. Most expats have close to zero understanding of the Swiss political system and throw around a lot of half-knowledge and hearsay on anything from migration to taxes. I personally prefer entertaining to factual when coming on here, but a newcomer is probably better off with factual information from the government.
it's a different how "they" (government) see it, and how it is...that's why I like personal stories better in the beginning because they tell you how to deal with issues rather than give you an illusion...

I still see the broschure as quite "non-saying"...nothing in the broschure would have changed any of the issues that I had in the beginning, maybe "they" should have checked more with foreigners what kind of information that would have been more helpful...
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  #26  
Old 04.07.2011, 16:18
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Re: integration brochure

I still agree with you, Treverus, but that's the media and of course quite a portion of the population, but it's not the "country," as you put it. I am part of this country too, for instance, and I don't see me represented in your description.
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  #27  
Old 04.07.2011, 16:37
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Re: integration brochure

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quite a portion of the population
Well, you are the odd one then

If you mean by "portion" the SVP lot I actually don't agree - They surely do, but even mild mannered Swiss who are very open to foreigners, say Bertrand or Simon think that nationality is something terribly important:
suggestion : country name [to be noted on every post]?
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  #28  
Old 05.07.2011, 00:20
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Re: integration brochure

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Simple example: The Swiss media does report excessively about the fact that he is GERMAN (!)... (and since the UBS already has a GERMAN CEO, this is clearly a takeover...). Seriously 90% of the articles are exclusively about his nationality and the stock options and cash he would receive - there is hardly a word on his track record (which is btw pretty good). I talked about it with my Swiss colleagues at lunch, who knew exactly how much he would earn but have not the slightest clue what this man did previously (they mixed up Deutsche Bundesbank and Deutsche Bank...).

I can come up with five more examples - every single bloody day.

boyo, i am rolling on the floor wetting myself laughing! exactly, precesily that!
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  #29  
Old 05.07.2011, 00:45
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Re: integration brochure

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Well, I do not generalize about the people, but I can in this case generalize about the Swiss media: I do actually read the papers that tend to the political left, but even they piss me off daily when it comes to "Ausländer". And reading their forums below articles just make me shake my head.

Simple example: No German could give a thing that Ackermann (CEO of Deutsche Bank) is Swiss. They judge him by his actions, not his passport. UBS is currently looking for a new president of its board and the management suggests one of the best candidates one can think of. The Swiss media does report excessively about the fact that he is GERMAN (!)... (and since the UBS already has a GERMAN CEO, this is clearly a takeover...). Seriously 90% of the articles are exclusively about his nationality and the stock options and cash he would receive - there is hardly a word on his track record (which is btw pretty good). I talked about it with my Swiss colleagues at lunch, who knew exactly how much he would earn but have not the slightest clue what this man did previously (they mixed up Deutsche Bundesbank and Deutsche Bank...).

I can come up with five more examples - every single bloody day.

Journalists tend to write what their editors ask them to. Editors typically choose topics that sell papers... so yes, it is a topic here and my Swiss colleagues and friends love to discuss "foreigner topics" all the time. How about you?

You just reminded me of a Swiss man i got introduced to last week:
  • First question: where are you from?
  • Second question: what brought you to Switzerland?
  • Third question: when are you planning to return to your home country?

.....i just turned my back and went away
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  #30  
Old 05.07.2011, 07:43
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Re: integration brochure

What language was it in, this amazing techni-coloured dream book of yours?

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On a second note: For a country that continuously complains that there are so many foreigners here who do everything wrong all the time... why don't they use the moment you immigrate better to inform the newcomers?

When I moved to the Netherlands, I did not get some ten page brochure, but a massive book with easy explanations on pretty much all topics that turn up on EF repeatedly:
- all permit laws explained
- am I allowed to work? basics on employment regulations...
- taxes
- health insurances
- banking
- property laws (how does renting a flat work...)
- basics on many cultural pitfalls

The book was full of advertisement targeted at newcomers, from phone companies over health insurances to banks, so I guess they did not need much tax money to produce it.
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  #31  
Old 05.07.2011, 08:11
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Re: integration brochure

English, German, French, Arabic, Turkish, amongst others....
rumour has it, it's even available in Dutch.....

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What language was it in, this amazing techni-coloured dream book of yours?
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  #32  
Old 05.07.2011, 08:14
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Re: integration brochure

Then it truely is a magical book! Wish I had me one.

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English, German, French, Arabic, Turkish, amongst others....
rumour has it, it's even available in Dutch.....
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  #33  
Old 05.07.2011, 08:58
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Re: integration brochure

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You just reminded me of a Swiss man i got introduced to last week:
  • First question: where are you from?
  • Second question: what brought you to Switzerland?
  • Third question: when are you planning to return to your home country?
.....i just turned my back and went away
Yup, exactly the same questions I get asked each and every time I enter the USA. Unfortunately I can't just turn my back and walk away in the line, with all the cameras and heavy muscled security guys.

Besides that, I always get asked the very same questions in Greece too, but by ordinary people. It's just their way of making first contact. Next questions usually are, "How many children do you have?" and "Why not more?" I don't have the slightest problem with that.
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  #34  
Old 05.07.2011, 10:50
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Re: integration brochure

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Yup, exactly the same questions I get asked each and every time I enter the USA. Unfortunately I can't just turn my back and walk away in the line, with all the cameras and heavy muscled security guys.

Besides that, I always get asked the very same questions in Greece too, but by ordinary people. It's just their way of making first contact. Next questions usually are, "How many children do you have?" and "Why not more?" I don't have the slightest problem with that.
Well, no. There is a difference if the customs/immigration ask you this or any normal person on the street. "Where are you from?" is obviously ok, just as "how long have you been here?" is the standard question at any EF drink. But "When will you go home again?" is different : It basically tells you that you are expected to leave again at some point. That's the opposite of integration.

You will not be able to talk us into believing that Switzerland is as open as other countries - it simply isn't.

Short example: I am currently in the process of moving to Singapore. As we want to keep it an option to come back here, I am dealing with some of our permit questions (I have a C while the wife still has a B...). Because she is married to a EU guy, she gets the far simpler process: After only five years and a ton of papers (Betreibungsauskunft, statement that you didn't take Sozialhilfe, Criminal record,...) can she get a permanent residency! In half the time of the ten years others have to wait... without the stric record on fluency in German and other stuff others have to bring on top. How generous of them.
The Singaporean counterparts had a look at our situation: education, income, financials. They offer us a permanent residency after six months (and consider to make it even three months!). And no, the country is neither some poor third world hole that throws passports at anyone who brings money nor are we some super rich.
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  #35  
Old 05.07.2011, 22:18
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Re: integration brochure

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On a second note: For a country that continuously complains that there are so many foreigners here who do everything wrong all the time... why don't they use the moment you immigrate better to inform the newcomers?

.
A) just to put the records straight, this country has never complained that there are so many foreigners
B) this country has never said that foreigners do everything wrong all the time
C) to inform immigrants is basically a responsiblity of Cantons and Communities

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  #36  
Old 05.07.2011, 22:26
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Re: integration brochure

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Well, I do not generalize about the people, but I can in this case generalize about the Swiss media: I do actually read the papers that tend to the political left, but even they piss me off daily when it comes to "Ausländer". And reading their forums below articles just make me shake my head.

Simple example: No German could give a thing that Ackermann (CEO of Deutsche Bank) is Swiss. They judge him by his actions, not his passport. UBS is currently looking for a new president of its board and the management suggests one of the best candidates one can think of. The Swiss media does report excessively about the fact that he is GERMAN (!)... (and since the UBS already has a GERMAN CEO, this is clearly a takeover...). Seriously 90% of the articles are exclusively about his nationality and the stock options and cash he would receive - there is hardly a word on his track record (which is btw pretty good). I talked about it with my Swiss colleagues at lunch, who knew exactly how much he would earn but have not the slightest clue what this man did previously (they mixed up Deutsche Bundesbank and Deutsche Bank...).

I can come up with five more examples - every single bloody day.

Journalists tend to write what their editors ask them to. Editors typically choose topics that sell papers... so yes, it is a topic here and my Swiss colleagues and friends love to discuss "foreigner topics" all the time. How about you?

Very sorry, I also read CH newspapers and the nationality of the successor is Faaar behind the point that
A) he is proposed by Mr Villiger
B) that he gets millions just to start
C) the choice of colleagues is up to you --- my colleagues and relatives do NOT talk about "foreigners topics" all the time
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  #37  
Old 06.07.2011, 01:08
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Re: New Official «Welcome to Switzerland» Brochure

I skimmed through the brochure and was liked the stories of the different immigrants who came to Switzerland. I was particularly impressed with the story of Samba Kebbeh, the Gambian who studied German intensely for an entire year to become fluent and eventually became a train conductor. If he's a conductor, then even if he's never on a train that travels to the Swiss Romande or Ticino, he probably has to be familiar with more different Swiss dialects than somebody who stays in one city, like Zurich or Basel. (His story is particularly humbling when compared to people who are only looking for English-speaking jobs.)

That being said, I'm not in Switzerland. The brochure paints a pretty picture, but I'll leave it to you guys to determine how accurate that picture is, or how useful the information in the brochure really is to people moving to Switzerland.
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  #38  
Old 06.07.2011, 01:17
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Re: New Official «Welcome to Switzerland» Brochure

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I skimmed through the brochure and was liked the stories of the different immigrants who came to Switzerland. I was particularly impressed with the story of Samba Kebbeh, the Gambian who studied German intensely for an entire year to become fluent and eventually became a train conductor. If he's a conductor, then even if he's never on a train that travels to the Swiss Romande or Ticino, he probably has to be familiar with more different Swiss dialects than somebody who stays in one city, like Zurich or Basel. (His story is particularly humbling when compared to people who are only looking for English-speaking jobs.)

That being said, I'm not in Switzerland. The brochure paints a pretty picture, but I'll leave it to you guys to determine how accurate that picture is, or how useful the information in the brochure really is to people moving to Switzerland.
Some of the train conductors that I have encountered seem unsure which language they are speaking. On more than one occasion I have been aske for my ticket in German/Swiss German. When producing an English 'Swiss Pass' I have been thanked with "merci"
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  #39  
Old 06.07.2011, 02:18
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Re: New Official «Welcome to Switzerland» Brochure

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Some of the train conductors that I have encountered seem unsure which language they are speaking. On more than one occasion I have been aske for my ticket in German/Swiss German. When producing an English 'Swiss Pass' I have been thanked with "merci"
Wolli can correct me on this, but "merci" might not necessarily be a mistake for someone speaking Swiss-German. Isn't "merci" or "merci velmal (?)" also used by German speakers in Switzerland?
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  #40  
Old 06.07.2011, 08:18
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Re: New Official «Welcome to Switzerland» Brochure

Absolutely, just like "äxgüsi" (= "excusez") and many others.
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