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  #21  
Old 02.07.2011, 00:59
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Re: Switzerland world's most innovative country?

Inventions fair Zurich I would love to go- I would find it hilarious.

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  #22  
Old 02.07.2011, 09:33
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Re: Switzerland world's most innovative country?

[QUOTE=LondonAlThe US probably has thousands of patents based on 'how best to get the morbidly obese person who weighs over half a tonne out of their house and into hospital'
[/QUOTE]
A patent to get a patient?
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  #23  
Old 02.07.2011, 09:42
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Re: Switzerland world's most innovative country?

How about innovation levels in nonconcrete items? Social services, for example? Or education provisions? Flexi working hours? etc

I have been surprised at how inflexible childcare services seem to be, for working parents, coupling that with the inflexible demands of employers who do not allow for much m(p)aternity leave, nor flexi or part time opportuities for parents of babies or young children.

Also, although I am impressed with the general level and breadth of education, including the high number of subjects taken at the gynasiums and the apprentice schemes on offer, it seems to me that there is a lack of innovation in choices available, when they are available and how those choices can be implemented, tieing one into one system from early on.
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  #24  
Old 02.07.2011, 09:48
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Re: Switzerland world's most innovative country?

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(....)
Ideas are everything hence patents - but ideas without purpose.....

It's a combination of the two. I could own 2 thousand patents but none would be profit worthy -

(...)
That's why there is a difference between innovation and invention.

An innovation is an invention that was transformed into a product or service that meets the needs of a market.
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  #25  
Old 02.07.2011, 10:08
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Re: Switzerland world's most innovative country?

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Silicon Valley has more in its pinky than the rest of Europe combined. ESPECIALLY Switzerland. The Swiss know how to make things better, they dont know how to make from scratch.
Yes because it's only in IT and electrical areas where innovations are made..., but hey what are Siemens, Alstom and ABB compared to GE...or Philips, Ericsson and Nokia compared to...Motorola...? (Apple were never that innovative in terms of technology, but they are a brilliant marketing machine)...or Volvo, Audi, BMW, Mercedes compared to GM, ford....

Many filed patents =/= more innovative....just so you know....
The philosophy of filing patents in US compared to Europe is totally different...

of course...you may wonder where did the brilliant scientists in US come from?

and US companies are famous for buying innovation companies and do optimization and further development....
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  #26  
Old 02.07.2011, 10:24
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Re: Switzerland world's most innovative country?

What is the percentage of population of Switzerland compared to UK. About 12%- and to the US? Silicon Valley is not a country, is it?
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  #27  
Old 02.07.2011, 11:42
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Re: Switzerland world's most innovative country?

It's funny how people immediately doubt a serious research institution when it collides with their stereotypes.
But seriously, get a clue. If you didn't know that Switzerland is an innovative country you better do your homework, esp. after living here for a while.
Switzerland is like Germany, tons of unknown SMEs that are technology leaders in their respective field, and that of course is how Switzerland got its massive trade surplus, not with banks, not with tourism...
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  #28  
Old 02.07.2011, 14:14
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Re: Switzerland world's most innovative country?

1. You're too quick in writing off the banking sector in CH. UBS's assets alone are 3x the size of the Swiss economy.

2. Switzerland's most important export is the CHF. Investors & central bankers around the world love it for its soundness whereas $ & € are crap.

3. Swiss can't mass produce because their labour costs are too high. Instead, they focus on high quality products which need innovation to remain competitive.

4. CH #1 is what I personally cannot swallow not that its not innovative; Sweden listed as #2 discredits the entire list.
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  #29  
Old 02.07.2011, 14:20
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Re: Switzerland world's most innovative country?

I just looked at the PDF file, and I start to see a trend:
These rankings are annual, it shows that Iceland was ranked #1 in 2010 & now it's #11. US was #1 in 2009, now it's #7...who knows, 2012 may have Switzerland listed as #20??
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  #30  
Old 02.07.2011, 14:24
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Re: Switzerland world's most innovative country?

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4. CH #1 is what I personally cannot swallow not that its not innovative; Sweden listed as #2 discredits the entire list.
...you have no clue do you?
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  #31  
Old 02.07.2011, 14:44
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Re: Switzerland world's most innovative country?

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...you have no clue do you?
You must be Swedish
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  #32  
Old 02.07.2011, 15:38
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Re: Switzerland world's most innovative country?

I work as a patent attorney in Bern, and it has constantly surprised me how much technical innovation is going on here, quietly. The amount of investment in Swiss R&D is seriously impressive, but a lot of it isn't glamorous high-profile technology, so most people don't necessarily get to hear about it.

However, there is another effect that this kind of survey often overlooks: there are many international companies which hold their patent portfolios is Switzerland for tax reasons, even if the actual innovation happened in other countries. This distorts the figures and makes the Swiss patent filing figures significantly higher than they would otherwise be.

Some countries (France, Spain, Italy, for example) have tried to stop this kind of thing by legislation - patents on inventions made in these countries must be filed first in the country concerned. Other countries (such as the UK) use a carrot instead of a stick - the UK government is planning to slash corporation tax on profits from patents. The Chinese government is offering massive cash handouts for companies in China to file patents. Chinese patent filings are exploding, but I doubt that the per capita filing numbers will ever compare with those of Switzerland.
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  #33  
Old 02.07.2011, 16:01
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Re: Switzerland world's most innovative country?

How many of those US patents are design patents?

There is no such thing in Switzerland or, as far as I know, in Europe in general. There is not even a German word for it. Granted, there is the Geschmacksmuster, but that is considered to be way below the level of a patent and would never figure in patent statistics, whereas in the USA everone can file for a patent on the colors and / or shape of a sugar candy. And get it. And then figure as a patent holder.
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  #34  
Old 02.07.2011, 16:30
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Re: Switzerland world's most innovative country?

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How many of those US patents are design patents?
Quite right. But I don't suppose they would include design patents if they were talking about innovation.

The other thing I forgot to mention about Swiss patents is that they aren't examined for novelty or inventiveness, so it is a lot easier to get a Swiss patent than, say, a US or European patent. Other countries (eg France) have similar systems - basically it's up to you to make sure that your "invention" really is new and inventive. There is some sense in this approach, because, even if your patent has been examined for inventiveness by a competent patent examiner, you can never really know how strong your patent is until you get to court.
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  #35  
Old 02.07.2011, 16:40
hoppy
 
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Re: Switzerland world's most innovative country?

I just didn't see much innovation when I was in Switzerland- except for gadgets, but then why should I sneer at that, look at the Swiss Army knife, the funky bikes, the jet man, the Swatch watch!
I think that the US environment frees inventors to apply themselves and produce more patents. It just make sense to me that where there is more high-level research there are more patents.

However patents are often used to stifle innovation i.e. Companies patent something that they cannot at present put into production, but do not want others to develop. Many of the US patents are kept secret- related to defence etc.
It angered me that the US were quick to try to patent UK genetic/ DNA discoveries, but then the UK are not exactly innocent in the patent game.
I suppose that while in Switzerland I didn't meet anyone who produced patents- except my husband. Here I meet loads. Perhaps if I had known people in the chemical industry it would have been different.

I think that real evidence of innovation is the number of patents that are put into production. This can be quite frustrating when you partner with other countries who claim to have the technology and then say- can you show us first! China and India come to mind!
I am sure that Switzerland have great infrastructure, but they don't really think out of the box- so there is no real innovation except for that which they import.

Here is something which if true could be quite a changer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haEBmLskfZg
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  #36  
Old 02.07.2011, 16:47
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Re: Switzerland world's most innovative country?

Just to put the whole thing (the actual report) a bit into perspective, the horses mouth (the report) does factor in quite a big set of different indicators:

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The GII is calculated as the simple average of two sub-indices (…). The Innovation Input Sub-Index gauges elements of the national economy that enable innovative activities, grouped in five pillars: (1) Institutions, (2) Human capital and research, (3) Infrastructure, (4) Market sophistication, and (5) Business sophistication. The Innovation Output Sub-Index captures actual evidence of innovation outputs, divided in two pillars: (6) Scientific outputs and (7) Creative outputs. These pillars are divided into 20 sub-pillars, including a total of 80 indicators.

Switzerland comes in at top place in the overall GII 2011 rankings (up from position 4th last year) on the basis of its strong position in both the Input and Output Sub- Indices (3rd and 2nd, respectively). Although the country does not top any individual pillar, it places within the top 5 in three Input pillars (Institutions, Market and Business sophistication) and both Output pillars (Scientific outputs and Creative outputs).
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  #37  
Old 02.07.2011, 17:20
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Re: Switzerland world's most innovative country?

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I just didn't see much innovation when I was in Switzerland- except for gadgets, but then why should I sneer at that, look at the Swiss Army knife, the funky bikes, the jet man, the Swatch watch!
I think that the US environment frees inventors to apply themselves and produce more patents. It just make sense to me that where there is more high-level research there are more patents.
Out of the box thinking 101 for US-Americans: In order to render country comparisons useful, you usually use per capita or per GDP measures.

The Nordic countries and telecommunication technology might be a good starting point.

Unfortunately, for US-Americans, there are many different fields where US is #1 in total numbers, but far from it when you look at it from a per capita perspective.

To use a Chinese example: Compare the number of high net worth individuals in Switzerland and China. Then calculate the number of high net worth individuals per million inhabitants. Then calculate the average household income for both countries.


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I am sure that Switzerland have great infrastructure, but they don't really think out of the box- so there is no real innovation except for that which they import.
You mean like when Johnson&Johnson bought Synthes?
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  #38  
Old 02.07.2011, 17:28
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Re: Switzerland world's most innovative country?

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The other thing I forgot to mention about Swiss patents is that they aren't examined for novelty or inventiveness, so it is a lot easier to get a Swiss patent than, say, a US or European patent.
Correct, but how many patent applications are filed just for Switzerland? I assume that the patent count mentioned above consists of applications filed by persons or companies located in Switzerland, not applications for Swiss patents, i.e. protection against competition on the Swiss market. The latter wouldn't make much sense.

I mean, how many things can you invent that you want to market only and exclusively in Switzerland? And what could that be? Maybe a new valve for a Schwyzerörgeli? Even that might have quite a market in Wisconsin too.
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Old 02.07.2011, 17:30
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Re: Switzerland world's most innovative country?

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Switzerland is the world’s most innovative country and Europe leads the globe according to a report by the French business school Insead.

He refuted suggestions that Switzerland was somehow wrongly placed. “Many people think of Switzerland as only having banks and they don’t do anything else. However if you look at patents on a per GDP basis, it is ranked number one in the world.”


http://blogs.wsj.com/tech-europe/201...ogle_news_blog

Really? I mean really? What do you think?
the number of patents on any basis is neither relevant nor of any real meaning.
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Old 02.07.2011, 17:35
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Re: Switzerland world's most innovative country?

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Well, aren't there a lot of pharmaceutical companies based here? I wonder how many of those patents are for pharmaceuticals...

Not trying to bash Switzerland, but I do know that one thing they have invented is a very dangerous pesticide that is illegal to be used here and in the rest of Europe but is sold to and used widely across the US.
The pharma-industry may have its importance, but you should not forget the engineering industry, and the producers of instruments of many sorts.
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