In short, you don't really understand the system / country / subject at hand Zuger.

I am making the point that considering the current obligatory Swiss curriculum (which on your side of the Rostigraben is called Unterstufe, Mittelstufe and Oberstufe) takes 9 years (6 for Unter and Mittelstufe, 3 for Oberstufe) your assertion (graduating high school at 16) doesn't hold water.

Obligatory curriculum - that only gets you ready to enter high school that takes another four years to graduate. Considering you can start Unterstufe only at age 6, I let you do the math, and tell me how you can graduate high school by age 16 - i'm sure US mathematics allow for that, European ones certainly don't.

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So, on a per capita basis, CH has 4x as many as the US!

And I work in a small (25 people, and that includes manufacturing and 8 engineers, two of which don't do much engineering these days), privately owned company, hardly a "large industrial firm"!

Tom

Great, so how many patents do you guys turn out?

Niether do the Universities in the US. That was my point if you re-read the thread.

Actually, it is, and generally one finishes an apprenticeship at 18-19, not 16!

Tom

Nonsense, none of the universities I considered applying to or attended (and several were Ivy League) required a HS diploma, just sufficient SATs and APs, in fact I considered skipping my senior year, but in the end decided against it.

Tom

Out of the 3 kids I have sent to the US to play college basketball not one met the requirements for a DivI University, academically. When I was playing college basketball we constantly played against REAALLLYYYY talented European players who were sent straight to JC's because they didnt have the academics. Now I am sure everyone is different. But an apprenticeship is the same same as a GED in the US. So you did well on your SAT's.... Good for you.... what about the average European student who has a GED equivalent? ?

But this is all off topic anyway. The point is, there is no proper (agreed upon) way to measure creativity or innovation.

Just to give you something else to argue about, what's the median revenue generation per patent? It would seem a better indicator than 'patents per capita'. That way, it won't matter if the Swiss invent a hundred different types of fondue pots, raclette melters, and coffee pod moisteners if no one buys them.

Agreed. I like the idea of this thread, but lack the motivation to go though the pages of bickering of a pseudo-statistical metric for measuring creativity.

How about listing specific examples (perhaps already done) and comparing those by their creativity, simplicity and impact.

Ive thought of that, but then people will say "That doesnt help humanity"....

For example the most popular TV show in Europe is CSI. Thats an American show. The rights are owned by an American company. It makes LOTS of money. So how can you compare that to say a cancer medication?

Or better yet, how can you compare a revenue generator like viagra to Kaletra (an HIV/Aids drug)?

So its good in theory, but does CSI change the world? Is American Idol innovation (not if you ask "Star Search")..... Its all open to interpretation.

But money is a very good metric, which is why I keep bringing up VC funding. Its just not a perfect metric....

Nothing is, but it doesn't keep you guys from bickering about it. All you've proven is that despite who invented it, 90% of the internet is used for porn, 9% is used for LOLcats, and 1% is used for bickering endlessly on forums.

Erm, Simon Fuller "invented" American Idol aaaaand he is a Brit.

I suggest an ever-shifting metric goalpost. Like, say, high-school graduation at 16. If we don't like it, or doesn't support our argument, we kick it discreetly in a corner.

An awful show like that, could only come from one place...

There is no proof of that. That's just the way you experience the internet.

With respect to 'changing the world', I would definitely put the Haber-Bosch process at the top of the list.

Also arguable, but it has an element of Swiss influence in it

Now I'm completely lost.

Are you just trolling or trying to have a serious discussion about innovation.

I just can't follow the logic to this statement:

Youre a big boy. If you want to discuss the ins and out of GED equivalents for getting into US Universities you should start a thread. You've added nothing to the point of this thread other than trying to change the subject Im afraid.

lies! all lies!

Here is the scientific proof, that internet is indeed for p0rn!