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  #221  
Old 26.07.2011, 11:05
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Re: Swiss Franc Climbs to Record High

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It already DOES damage both the export industry and the inbound tourism, the two most important pillars of the Swiss economy and the two sectors on which this country depends.

20 years ago, Professor Ziegler in his book "La Suisse lavage le plus blanc" / "Die Schweiz wäscht weisser" warned about the unhealthy power of what he named "the Emirs of Zürich and Geneva". He never was more right than right now !
I see a lot of concern about the exchange rate becoming more favorable for holders of CHF, but I don't see anything about deflating prices.

Of course, nobody would want to earn less due to inflation, neither.

Any thoughts there?

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What is this malarky about 'in reality the rate is 1.3'

In reality is the rate not what it actually is today? I don't really care what anyone thinks it should be....the rate is what it is...if I want to change my francs into Euros I will get whatever the rate is today...not what wolli thinks it should be.
I find the whole "what it should be" a bit perplexing, too. 5 years ago, the CHF:USD was 1.25:1.00. Now it's 1.00:1.25. I negotiated my salary based on the actual exchange rate, not "what it should be".

Same with the Yen. It "should be" 120 Yen to the USD. Now it's ~80.

Then there's the Argentine Peso. Should it be what it was 10 years ago? or what it is today?
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  #222  
Old 26.07.2011, 12:04
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Re: Swiss Franc Climbs to Record High

The CHF "should" be valued at whatever the market will pay for it. Simples.

Sorry, Wolli, that's life in the free world.

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... the export industry and the inbound tourism, the two most important pillars of the Swiss economy and the two sectors on which this country depends.
I'd have thought that Switzerland's services sector (like, oh, you know, banking) would be a rather important pillar, if not the foundation, of this once-agrarian nation's success, no?
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  #223  
Old 26.07.2011, 12:10
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Re: Swiss Franc Climbs to Record High

Hey Wolli what's your IBAN. I have 10,000 Euros with your name on it
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  #224  
Old 26.07.2011, 12:57
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Re: Swiss Franc Climbs to Record High

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What you regard as "the market" is just a bunch of criminal speculators. The CHF is NOT worth what the exchange rate may show, but far far far less. To sell the CHF at far less so is reinstating reality. The speculators in reality do with the CHF anyway what they want, and have turned the CHF into a joke and into a speculation currency of the kind of the Reichsmark of the 1920ies. A currency which increasingly serves the interests of the speculators but betrays the interests of its own country and so becomes superfluous.

I therefore join Mr Bodenmann. Let's join the Euro NOW
About "What you regard as "the market" is just a bunch of criminal speculators. "

I do not think so. I am sure there are speculators making money out of the strong franc but also speculators losing money as they bet on other currencies.

I do not see speculators having the means or resources to drive the franc upwards; as an example the SNB spent over 100 billion trying to stop the rise.
Do you think speculators have a lot more than this available to drive the franc up??
UBS announced poor results this morning because of the strong franc; even UBS cannot influence this market.

I think speculators are just riding the elephant; they cannot force it to change direction.
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  #225  
Old 26.07.2011, 12:59
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Re: Swiss Franc Climbs to Record High

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The CHF "should" be valued at whatever the market will pay for it. Simples.

Sorry, Wolli, that's life in the free world.



I'd have thought that Switzerland's services sector (like, oh, you know, banking) would be a rather important pillar, if not the foundation, of this once-agrarian nation's success, no?
No it is NOT. Banking is just a part of the services sector, which includes transportation, tourism, gastronomy and hotellerie. But the foundation of the Swiss economy are the export industry and the inbound tourism. The success of these two sectors were the basis upon which the banks built up their fortunes. Of course, the banks and insurance-companies were necessary. But realize that until 1959/60, international trade was not done by direct payment, but by payments via the national clearing agencies (Verrechnungsstelle). Even exports to Germany had to go through the VS system.

And when you speak about the free markets, you ignore the problem Switzerland has. The country simply is too small to maintain a world currency. This means that the free market does not play, as under the given circumstances, the speculators have far too much power. Such considerations were outlined by Mr Junkers of Luxemburg a while ago in Zürich University as major reasons why Belgium and Luxemburg joined the Euro. Mr Schneider-Ammann recently emphasized that having your own currency needs national independence. Neglecting the reality that it is an independence where a big bank in New York or Tokyo or Sao Paulo at times has more clout in Switzerland than a Federal Minister. Making the CHF into a cartoon of an independent currency.

Do the "speculators" have more money than the SNB ? They do not need more money, because they invest into a small currency while the SNB tried to move up one of the biggest currencies on the planet. But in fact HAVE more money. Do not forget that the SNB is a relatively small central bank by international comparison, and UBS, gigantic by Swiss standards is just in the middle field among banking giants in the world.

Let's be fair about those "gnomes". They do not want to destroy Switzerland. Quite to the contrary, they just want to make as much profit out of the situation as possible. Yes, true, this IS "free market". But the Swiss Franc, in view of the troubles arouned $ and € has become THE reserve-currency of the globe, and this is simply too much. Developments have overrun Switzerland. Another trouble is that when the tide turns and when the Swiss economy starts to go belly up those speculators will withdraw their assets within hours. Alright, free markets ahead but in a way which is disastrous

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  #226  
Old 26.07.2011, 13:00
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Re: Swiss Franc Climbs to Record High

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Hey Wolli what's your IBAN. I have 10,000 Euros with your name on it
I can give you my bank-account if you promise to make the transfer
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  #227  
Old 26.07.2011, 13:03
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Re: Swiss Franc Climbs to Record High

Wolli...no offence...but how is name all that is holy do you know SO MUCH...about everything ???

You should have a username like Mr. Wiki or something.
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  #228  
Old 26.07.2011, 13:10
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Re: Swiss Franc Climbs to Record High

it's just a case of demand and supply.

if somebody wants to buy a franc for euros, then somebody has to sell a franc for euros.

the price is simply determined by where the sellers agree with the buyers on price.

with people fleeing the euro and rushing to the chf as a safe-haven, it is not surprising that people with chfs can demand a higher price.
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  #229  
Old 26.07.2011, 13:12
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Re: Swiss Franc Climbs to Record High

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Wolli...no offence...but how is name all that is holy do you know SO MUCH...about everything ???

You should have a username like Mr. Wiki or something.
You're kidding right?
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  #230  
Old 26.07.2011, 13:56
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Re: Swiss Franc Climbs to Record High

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........................Do not forget that the SNB is a relatively small central bank by international comparison, and UBS, gigantic by Swiss standards is just in the middle field among banking giants in the world......................................

.................................But the Swiss Franc, in view of the troubles arouned $ and € has become THE reserve-currency of the globe, and this is simply too much............................
The Financial Times rates both UBS & CS in the top 15 banks worldwide so hardly the middle field.

The Swiss Franc has not become a reserve currency; there are simply not enough Francs to go around.

It has become a safe haven currency which is rather different.
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  #231  
Old 26.07.2011, 14:29
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Re: Swiss Franc Climbs to Record High

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The Financial Times rates both UBS & CS in the top 15 banks worldwide so hardly the middle field.

The Swiss Franc has not become a reserve currency; there are simply not enough Francs to go around.

It has become a safe haven currency which is rather different.
"Rather different" it technically may be, but worse, I mean worse for Switzerland, it is
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Old 26.07.2011, 14:40
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Re: Swiss Franc Climbs to Record High

UBS slashing jobs as profits halve, why? because the strength of the CHF.

http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/UBS...92856.html?x=0
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  #233  
Old 26.07.2011, 14:53
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Re: Swiss Franc Climbs to Record High

Foreign companies with (some) operations in Switzerland may move out more and more because their "tax haven" is overshadowed by the expensive frank... (speaking from very present experience!)
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  #234  
Old 27.07.2011, 08:39
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Re: Swiss Franc Climbs to Record High

CHF to USD is flirting with 0.79 this morning. Even the Rupee is gaining on the Dollar.

It's going to be an interesting 3 days...
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  #235  
Old 27.07.2011, 09:14
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Re: Swiss Franc Climbs to Record High

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It's going to be an interesting 3 days...
To begin with...
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  #236  
Old 28.07.2011, 12:51
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Re: Swiss Franc Climbs to Record High

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UBS slashing jobs as profits halve, why? because the strength of the CHF.

http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/UBS...92856.html?x=0

I think the strength of the CHF is just an excuse; banks should hedge against currency fluctuations.

I think it is more to do with what was also written in the article "the European cross-border business posted outflows amid tighter scrutiny from tax authorities."

BTW, euro is now at 1.14xx
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  #237  
Old 28.07.2011, 13:07
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Re: Swiss Franc Climbs to Record High

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I think the strength of the CHF is just an excuse; banks should hedge against currency fluctuations.

I think it is more to do with what was also written in the article "the European cross-border business posted outflows amid tighter scrutiny from tax authorities."

BTW, euro is now at 1.14xx

Similar to what it was on Monday. Sales 1.158..

The bad results of UBS + CS show that real investors in the EuroZone no longer have so much money as before. And the relative "stability on a low level" seems to show that also the finance speculators have done the transfers they wanted to do.

Those UBS + CS chaps who now will be disposed of possibly no longer regard the high exchange rate of the CHF as such a good thing, as they aparently did not too long ago

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Old 28.07.2011, 13:11
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Re: Swiss Franc Climbs to Record High

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Similar to what it was on Monday. Sales 1.158..

The bad results of UBS + CS show that real investors in the EuroZone no longer have so much money as before. And the relative "stability on a low level" seems to show that also the finance speculators have done the transfers they wanted to do.

Those UBS + CS chaps who now will be disposed of possibly no longer regard the high exchange rate of the CHF as such a good thing, as they aparently did not too long ago
Yes because poking fun at and using the at someone who has just lost their job and livelihood is HILARIOUS

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  #239  
Old 28.07.2011, 13:27
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Re: Swiss Franc Climbs to Record High

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UBS slashing jobs as profits halve, why? because the strength of the CHF.

http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/UBS...92856.html?x=0
not really. if you RTFA, it doesn't once mention the strength of the CHF as a reason for falling profits.

at this stage, i'd expect banks to lose money due to deleveraging and loans being marked down/written off.
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  #240  
Old 28.07.2011, 13:33
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Re: Swiss Franc Climbs to Record High

A quick question to the specialists, if I may: is the CHF so strong, or are EUR, USD so weak?
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