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Old 25.07.2011, 20:42
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Consequences of the Norway shooting on Switzerland

The decade 2001-2010 was the decade of "The war on (Islamic) Terrorism".
This decade will hopefully be the decade of "The war on the Far-Right (scum, terroristic or not)".

- Will the Swiss people be intelligent enough to kick the SVP and reduce its share of votes at the next elections, realizing that it's part of a wider European problem of a violent, fascist, reactionary far-right, that is spreading like a cancer in almost all European countries, and that it's not very different from the Talibans and Al-Qaeda?

or instead

- Is there the risk of someone trying to emulate that Norwegian idiot in CH, considering also the enormous amount of weapons stocked in Swiss homes?
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Old 25.07.2011, 20:55
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Re: Consequences of the Norway shooting on Switzerland

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- Will the Swiss people be intelligent enough to kick the SVP and reduce its share of votes at the next elections, realizing that it's part of a wider European problem of a violent, fascist, reactionary far-right, that is spreading like a cancer in almost all European countries, and that it's not very different from the Talibans and Al-Qaeda?
or maybe there is another perspective?

this sort of thing hasn't happened in Switzerland. It's been a long time since there was any serious right-wing violence as far as I can remember, except maybe for the occasional case of right-wing thugs killing one-another, but I guess nobody is particularly saddened by that. Maybe the SVP is a safety valve where such people can come to a Stammtisch and rant and then go home satisfied that they have been listened to. Anyway, if indeed there is a militant thuggish faction in the SVP, they have been pretty succesfully reigned in so far. Just a thought.
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Old 25.07.2011, 20:59
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Re: Consequences of the Norway shooting on Switzerland

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... the SVP ... part of a wider European problem of a violent, fascist, reactionary far-right ... not very different from the Talibans and Al-Qaeda
Who's the extremist here?
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Old 25.07.2011, 21:01
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Re: Consequences of the Norway shooting on Switzerland

Tweener, been asking myself the same question.

Amogles, do you really think the 'average' right winger and anti-multiculturalist in Norway had any idea this was going to happen? Do you really believe the UDC, National Front in France or Belgium, etc, or even the English Defence League may not harbour small extremist groups- hell bent on violence? I hope you are right.
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Old 25.07.2011, 21:05
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Re: Consequences of the Norway shooting on Switzerland

Having lived in a Nordic country for a number of years, immediately upon hearing about the bombing I knew that it was a local embittered about foreigners. I was NOT surprised about it being a local with a manifesto. The only difference between this guy and most Nordics, is that he was organised, had a plan and carried out that plan. I'm not sure about which is better, passive hatred which keeps you from integrating or this guy who just bombs you instead. Most Nordics think this way, even if they deny it so... tragic for the victims, tragic for the country as they refuse to acknowledge the resentment towards foreigners of all sorts, not just muslims.
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Old 25.07.2011, 21:25
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Re: Consequences of the Norway shooting on Switzerland

An Algerian I know was walking down Langstr (in ZH), when he was blocked by three blonde men. His immediate thought was that he'd walked into another plain-clothes police control, but they seemed to have a different agenda. He asked them if they were in fact cops at which point the one who had been talking with him (the other two just stood there blocking his path) said he had just been looking for an arabic speaking person to give a dvd to, which my friend innocently took.
It turned out to be a mild propagander film, the underlying theme was that after reading from the Bible, a Muslim man "awoke" and converted to Christianity.
He binned it before I had a chance to check it out but he'll go back and see if he can find them and try to get another one off them for me.
It seems that the sentiment, at least, is already here.
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Old 25.07.2011, 21:40
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Re: Consequences of the Norway shooting on Switzerland

If anyone thinks that this Norwegian mass murderer really had a genuine political motive, then you're just being baffled by media bullshit.

Whilst I don't have any more insight into this incidence than anyone else, his behavior is akin to what I would call mentally disturbed. We all have crazy ideas, some more extreme than others, but what happened in Norway Friday, just as has happened in other massacres carried out by mentally disturbed killers, is that the fantasy didn't stay inside his head. Something short circuited in his brain and he overcame the natural balance that most of us have when dealing with extremes and he actually considered that carrying out his appalling acts was a better option than another course. That's psychotic and really dangerous. Not political, whatever he claims. And now the stupid press are doing him the favor of actually publishing all the crap he was on about; way to go. There should be a news black out about his personal extreme manifesto, you lose the freedom of speech when you slaughter nearly a hundred innocent people for absolutely no reason.

This isn't politics folk, it's mental insanity.
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Old 25.07.2011, 21:48
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Re: Consequences of the Norway shooting on Switzerland

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An Algerian I know was walking down Langstr (in ZH), when he was blocked by three blonde men. His immediate thought was that he'd walked into another plain-clothes police control, but they seemed to have a different agenda. He asked them if they were in fact cops at which point the one who had been talking with him (the other two just stood there blocking his path) said he had just been looking for an arabic speaking person to give a dvd to, which my friend innocently took.
It turned out to be a mild propagander film, the underlying theme was that after reading from the Bible, a Muslim man "awoke" and converted to Christianity.
He binned it before I had a chance to check it out but he'll go back and see if he can find them and try to get another one off them for me.
It seems that the sentiment, at least, is already here.
Langstrasse is actually a place that lots of religious types hand out hoping to catch somebody to convert.

There's still a big difference between trying to convert somebody and killing them.

I've been given heaps of proaganda booklets from different religions over the years including a lot of Muslim stuff, Christian stuff, Mormon stuff, Atheist stuff and others and ranging from leaflets to books, CDs and DVDS. I see no reason to expect any of these "missionaries" is likely to go on a rampage any time soon.
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Old 25.07.2011, 21:51
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Re: Consequences of the Norway shooting on Switzerland

Maybe some politics are not very sane? He was clearly in contact with the EDL and other groups which claim to have political aims.
Why is it that if a Muslim attacks in this way, he is deemed to represent 'Muslims' - but if it is a right-wing European, he is just labelled as a 'nutter'?
How many nutters go around 'Paki bashing' (I am so sorry, but this is the dreadful name of that 'game) - who are members of such groups, represented by political 'parties'? Many a genocide has been carried out in the name of extreme politics. I won't mention any examples, but were they 'nutters' or something else.
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Old 25.07.2011, 21:56
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Re: Consequences of the Norway shooting on Switzerland

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Amogles, do you really think the 'average' right winger and anti-multiculturalist in Norway had any idea this was going to happen? Do you really believe the UDC, National Front in France or Belgium, etc, or even the English Defence League may not harbour small extremist groups- hell bent on violence? I hope you are right.
I don't trust the EDL and similar groups and I do believe they are capable of violence. However, I don't believe the SVP is anything like that. They're not in that category.
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Old 25.07.2011, 21:58
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Re: Consequences of the Norway shooting on Switzerland

I never said they would.

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Langstrasse is actually a place that lots of religious types hand out hoping to catch somebody to convert.

There's still a big difference between trying to convert somebody and killing them.

I've been given heaps of proaganda booklets from different religions over the years including a lot of Muslim stuff, Christian stuff, Mormon stuff, Atheist stuff and others and ranging from leaflets to books, CDs and DVDS. I see no reason to expect any of these "missionaries" is likely to go on a rampage any time soon.
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Old 25.07.2011, 22:10
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Re: Consequences of the Norway shooting on Switzerland

In my little village in Canton Schwyz, the children are afraid of black-skinned people. Because the village is tiny and its residents are primarily Swiss and a few Balkans, the town folk's first introduction to Africans has been through the asyl seekers. Let's just say that none of these refugees have been made to feel welcomed.

I believe the Swiss will have to deal with this issue in the near future.
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Old 25.07.2011, 22:12
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Re: Consequences of the Norway shooting on Switzerland

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Why is it that if a Muslim attacks in this way, he is deemed to represent 'Muslims' - but if it is a right-wing European, he is just labelled as a 'nutter'?
Is he though?

Even when 9/11 happened, most people understood that this was the work of extremists and not of Muslims in general. Maybe sometimes when people speak that's a bit of a mouthful to say every time so they cut corners. But I'm pretty sure most people do know the difference.

However, when all those protests were going on about the Danish cartoons and Swiss flags were being burnt, I wonder if those Muslims really knew the difference?
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Old 25.07.2011, 22:24
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Re: Consequences of the Norway shooting on Switzerland

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In my little village in Canton Schwyz, the children are afraid of black-skinned people. Because .... bullshit ....
Its not the children but the parents who brain wash the kids, skin has nothing to do with fear, btw Jesus was born to a brown mother and never had blue eyes and blond hairs and if people start telling the truth to their kids world would be a better place.
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Old 25.07.2011, 22:26
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Re: Consequences of the Norway shooting on Switzerland

Yes, I believe many parents are also ignorant which quite often leads to fear.
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Old 25.07.2011, 22:36
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Re: Consequences of the Norway shooting on Switzerland

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If anyone thinks that this Norwegian mass murderer really had a genuine political motive, then you're just be baffled by media bullshit.

Whilst I don't have any more insight into this incidence than anyone else, his behavior is akin to what I would call mentally disturbed. We all have crazy ideas, some more extreme than others, but what happened in Norway Friday, just has happened in other massacres carried out by mentally disturbed killers, is that the fantasy didn't stay inside his head. Something short circuited in his brain and he overcame the natural balance that most of us have when dealing with extremes and he actually considered that carrying out his appalling acts was a better option than another course. That's psychotic and really dangerous. Not political, whatever he claims. And now the stupid press are doing him the favor of actually publishing all the crap he was on about; way to go. There should be a news black out about his personal extreme manifesto, you lose the freedom of speech when you slaughter nearly a hundred innocent people for absolutely no reason.

This isn't politics folk, it's mental insanity.
I totally agree with you Assassin; last night when i was trying to read his manifesto i read a line "sacrifices made in relation to the distribution of this book, the actual marketing operation" and i could not read more, this was enough to prove his mental insanity.
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Old 25.07.2011, 22:37
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Re: Consequences of the Norway shooting on Switzerland

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or maybe there is another perspective?

this sort of thing hasn't happened in Switzerland. It's been a long time since there was any serious right-wing violence as far as I can remember, except maybe for the occasional case of right-wing thugs killing one-another, but I guess nobody is particularly saddened by that. Maybe the SVP is a safety valve where such people can come to a Stammtisch and rant and then go home satisfied that they have been listened to. Anyway, if indeed there is a militant thuggish faction in the SVP, they have been pretty succesfully reigned in so far. Just a thought.
I think it is halfway-in-between. In other words, quite many SVP folks may realize that extremist propaganda may lead up to unwanted results. What has happened in the prime EFTA partner of Switzerland may indeed damage the position of the SVP in the upcoming federal parliamentary elections.
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Old 25.07.2011, 22:39
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Re: Consequences of the Norway shooting on Switzerland

I have a great idea for you. Register www.nutjobterrorist.ch and cybersquat until they really need it and then hold them to ransom.
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Old 25.07.2011, 22:41
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Re: Consequences of the Norway shooting on Switzerland

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I think it is halfway-in-between. In other words, quite many SVP folks may realize that extremist propaganda may lead up to unwanted results. What has happened in the prime EFTA partner of Switzerland may indeed damage the position of the SVP in the upcoming federal parliamentary elections.
Yes, it might well have an effect. Does anybody have any link to any reaction to this terrible event by the SVP/UDC?

Economisto, who is the 'you' in your twonk post?
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Old 25.07.2011, 22:44
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Re: Consequences of the Norway shooting on Switzerland

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Who's the extremist here?
are you sure ? have you in the past 15 months discussed matters with SVP admirers ? HAve you ever heard "arguments" only tooooo similar to the ideology of that terrorist in Norway ? ever been confronted by positions like "no discussion, THIS is fact" ?? Have you listened to "arguments" of Mr Brunner, Mr Bortoluzzi and Prof Dr Mörgeli ?

I am fairly positive that NONE of them is in favour of terrorism. But I hope that some of them, in their "silent chambers" reconsider at least sectors of their positions
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