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  #21  
Old 02.08.2011, 17:12
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Re: Universities allowed to cap the number of foreign students.

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Foreign students pay more at home as well (locals don't at home at all), I think it is logical since gov expects no return in investment. The thing is, how does one assess the student is foreign, B permit, C permit, applying from abroad? Somebody who has been here 5 years? Having Swiss Matura as being local, despite the foreign passport? How are they going to implement this idea?
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  #22  
Old 02.08.2011, 17:14
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Re: Universities allowed to cap the number of foreign students.

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Now what sense would that make? If you cap the number of foreign students to cap the costs the Swiss pay for them it does not matter where they are from.



The MBA at St Gallen costs more than one at the Harvard Business School.

http://www.mba.unisg.ch/admissions/f...g-your-mba.php

http://www.hbs.edu/mba/admissions/costsummary.html
That's funny- aren't the cost that you have outlined- the links above, are both around $85,000 but for St Gallen that's for the whole thing, whereas for Harvard that's average costs outlined for term 1 and 2? I seem to remember that my son was accepted to St. G. for that or the finance MBA he did a lot of research on costs.

The difference with respect to charging EU or non-EU is that Switzerland has agreements with the EU that it should abide by. However they don't necessarily have reciprocal agreements with other non- EU countries. So non EU students will be getting an education far cheaper than perhaps in their own country. I have heard that Argentina is free- I'm not sure if that includes foreigners, Switzerland is certainly cheap. Why not cap and pick the best foreigners irrespective of how much they can pay. That's what the US does to attract talent. Unless you want the Swiss to subsidize students across the world. Brainiacs like my daughter's friend do not pay to go to Harvard. Harvard makes money out of people like Tyra Banks:

Now, Banks can clearly afford the steep tuition at Harvard's elite Owner/President Management Program, which requires students participate in intensive three-week sessions costing $31,000 a year for three years.

http://www.people.com/people/article...473539,00.html



I'm off to pay my tuition bill, this hurts, I hate parting with money- one term costs more than a year at a Swiss university and I have picked the cheapest route. Scholarships are few and far between. The new debt deal hits middle income student loans. At least I'll get airmiles out of it and you will Treverus will be less hassled with me not having time to post. Although I wouldn't bet on it; last term I got 4+ and invited to join board and still posted. I'm aiming for B's or C's this time- I want to exercise more.
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  #23  
Old 02.08.2011, 17:15
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Re: Universities allowed to cap the number of foreign students.

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The thing is, how does one assess the student is foreign, B permit, C permit, applying from abroad? Somebody who has been here 5 years?
All of the above..

Shouldnt be that hard should it? I mean, a nationality other than swiss!
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  #24  
Old 02.08.2011, 17:18
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Re: Universities allowed to cap the number of foreign students.

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  #25  
Old 02.08.2011, 17:26
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Re: Universities allowed to cap the number of foreign students.

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Hm, a colleague's daughter had to do some entrance exams to actually make the finer filter into UniGe, I wondered about entrance exams. So there are none? Is it just Maturite that matters?
Yep.

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Are those st gallen tuition prices subsidised by the Kanton?
Yep. As a yardstick Geneva University budgets around CHF 500mln per year. 10'000 students at 1'200 per year tuition you end up ca. 490mln short without subsidies.
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  #26  
Old 02.08.2011, 17:32
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Re: Universities allowed to cap the number of foreign students.

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If the ETHZ really would do the same, it does not even match the population average of Zurich! So even without an influx of international students would the here living foreigners... never mind.
Never mind hits the nail on the head. You can't compare the population average of Zürich with the percentage of foreign students at the ETHZ. The here living foreigners in the appropriate age bracket would still be able to persue their studies.

All that has happened till now is that there's a more than 6 month old expert's report that states "capping the number of foreign students does not violate international law". Whether this is going to be applied to the application procedures (excluding St. Gallen) is unclear.

One of the reasons that swiss universities were expecting an increase of foreign students was that -due to changes in the school system- there are two classes finishing their A levels in Germany this summer.
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  #27  
Old 02.08.2011, 17:35
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Re: Universities allowed to cap the number of foreign students.

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That's a function of the FX rate though more than anything. It's also true for London Business School, but 2 years ago St. Gallen was cheaper. There are definitely no caps on the MBA course. I would go so far as to say that the Swiss are outnumbered by foreigners on it, however I do wonder if the continued strength of the CHF will put more foreigners off applying...
True. In my class - 2006 - there were 2 Swiss and 28 foreigners. Stats for each year are available on the website, I believe.

Edit: sorry for the back jump in the thread. I came a little late to the party.
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  #28  
Old 02.08.2011, 17:42
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Re: Universities allowed to cap the number of foreign students.

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?Swiss students are free to come to study in Germany. Costs nearly nothing and the paper work is minimal - Swiss matura is fully accepted. They can even study in their mother tongue...
But that's not true - for all universities in Germany, courses are in German or English. Isn't one of the bigger complaints in Switzerland, and the actual trigger for the quota system, that the "German tidal wave" made German (as opposed to Swiss German) the de facto universal language in Swiss universities north of the Roeschtigraben, along with English?
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  #29  
Old 02.08.2011, 17:47
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Re: Universities allowed to cap the number of foreign students.

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Swiss universities complain for years about the rising number of foreign students. http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/schweiz/...story/22107837
Now the federal council of universities has discussed what measures they could legally take without breaking international agreements and what measures they should take.

The number one measure we are most likely going to see in the near future: universities are allowed to limit the percentage of international students; The University of St. Gallen does so already. ETH Zurich is currently planning to do so.

Maybe it is just me, but I find this highly bizarre. I studied at a German university with a fairly local horizon and actually PAID A LOT to study my last year abroad in an international environment.

I can fully understand that the cantons don't want to pay the bills for international students - I see no problem to raise the tution. But capping the percentage of foreign students at 25%?!
I wonder where the top research universities of this world would be if they'd do so...
Top universities are not fighting with
- Cantonal budget cuts
- Lack of space
- Insufficient traffic links
- Lack of lodgings for students from outside the city

I mean, place a visit to the City of Cambridge, walk around, realize how many buildings and parks are part of the University, realize how many residential buildings are students residences ...--- and then return to Zurich and compare what you have seen with the cramped style here
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  #30  
Old 02.08.2011, 18:02
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Re: Universities allowed to cap the number of foreign students.

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But that's not true - for all universities in Germany, courses are in German or English. Isn't one of the bigger complaints in Switzerland, and the actual trigger for the quota system, that the "German tidal wave" made German (as opposed to Swiss German) the de facto universal language in Swiss universities north of the Roeschtigraben, along with English?
1. German is the official language here - not some dialect. There are no publications in "Swiss German", are there?
2. When the university of Zurich and the one in Lucerne were established in the 1830s was even the MAJORITY of the professors German...
3. Science is about exchanging ideas - and you can only do this in a commonly spoken language. That's today English. You can love it or hate it, but it's a fact. If you want to research today, you need to speak it.
4. Unlike the article I posted today did this rubbish never come from the universities - it was a populistic spoiling campaign of the SVP who claimed that Germans "discriminate against Swiss" at the university... the average SVP voter has never seen a university from the inside (that's a FACT), so he might believe it, all others should have a bit more balanced view.
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  #31  
Old 02.08.2011, 18:33
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Re: Universities allowed to cap the number of foreign students.

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Foreign students pay more at home as well (locals don't at home at all), I think it is logical since gov expects no return in investment. The thing is, how does one assess the student is foreign, B permit, C permit, applying from abroad? Somebody who has been here 5 years? Having Swiss Matura as being local, despite the foreign passport? How are they going to implement this idea?
I'm not sure, In the UK they have 3 different sets of fees ( or used to) the lowest is home student, for that you must be resident in the country and you or your parents paying taxes for 3 years. then there is the EU rate, then the most expensive ( the non-EU rate).

If you are to go by St Gallen then to be exempt you need a C permit:

There are tests and of course you must be proficient in German. If you come form the Sekundarschule then you will be assessed during your first year.

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Assessment Year (first year of studies)
You may be admitted to the Assessment Year (first year of studies in a Bachelor’s programme) if you have a recognised Swiss secondary school leaving certificate or an equivalent, recognised foreign certificate (e.g. German Abitur).
Admission for foreign applicants
Foreign applicants holding a foreign secondary school leaving certificate are subject to admission restrictions. An admission test is required.
Second Bachelor’s degree

Admission restrictions for Bachelor and Master Programmes
The admission restrictions apply to applicants with foreign citizenship and foreign secondary school leaving certificates.

The following applicants are exempted from these restrictions:
applicants with Swiss/Liechtenstein nationality;
applicants with a Swiss permanent residence Permit C;
applicants with a recognised Swiss/Liechtenstein secondary school leaving certificate or university degree;
applicants for Ph.D. studies;
guest students.
Admission test
If the admission restriction applies to you, you must pass a study qualification test in addition to meeting the academic requirements. Admission to studies at the HSG can be granted by passing the HSG admission test or an international test (GMAT, GRE or LSAT). You are free to decide which test you would like to take.
http://www.unisg.ch/en/Studium/Zulas...nbewerber.aspx

Most, (if not all?) undergrad courses are in the Swiss national languages. However, I think that it is to do wth the Bologna agreement, a growing number of masters courses will be taught (at least partly) in English. As Treverus says, the Lingua Franca of research is English, you ain't gonna get nowhere if you don't speak the lingo.

In any case you might to hear about research in China:

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The anxiety ... that exists at central leadership levels is that after spending all of this money, and buying all this equipment and training all these people, they're still not seeing the bang for the buck, as we say in the West. There is this kind of trepidation to break the mold, so we don't see a lot of radical innovation in China.
http://www.npr.org/2011/08/01/138837...fic-superpower

So will Switzerland see more or less radical innovation if they stem the number of foreigners? Why not just have a reciprocal agreement with the best US research universities?

Last edited by hoppy; 02.08.2011 at 18:52.
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  #32  
Old 02.08.2011, 18:35
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Re: Universities allowed to cap the number of foreign students.

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But that's not true - for all universities in Germany, courses are in German or English. Isn't one of the bigger complaints in Switzerland, and the actual trigger for the quota system, that the "German tidal wave" made German (as opposed to Swiss German) the de facto universal language in Swiss universities north of the Roeschtigraben, along with English?
up from the 2nd primary-school year, all lessons here are in Standard Germany and NOT in dialect, so that Swiss German dialects in the school-systems are irrelevant

and there was NO "German tidal wave" in any university here. A number of German professors were recruited by Swiss universities to fill vacancies, but the numbers are not as dramatic as the SVPlers declare.

And you certainly wanted to write "east of the Röschtigraben ?
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  #33  
Old 02.08.2011, 18:58
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Re: Universities allowed to cap the number of foreign students.

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up from the 2nd primary-school year, all lessons here are in Standard Germany and NOT in dialect, so that Swiss German dialects in the school-systems are irrelevant

and there was NO "German tidal wave" in any university here. A number of German professors were recruited by Swiss universities to fill vacancies, but the numbers are not as dramatic as the SVPlers declare.

And you certainly wanted to write "east of the Röschtigraben ?
There are a lot of German professors in Swiss universities- and they aren't even that good, but they speak German well. Swiss school teachers are supposed to speak German form the 2nd year up, but the majority of them are Swiss so they will use whichever dialect comes to them and the children naturally for clarification or discussion.
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