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  #61  
Old 06.08.2011, 18:56
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Re: Swiss to Join Euro?

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I can only disagree on that:
1) from personal shopping experience, I don't see a difference
2) as reported in this swissinfo article (22 July 2011) the strong franc has no impact on our shopping basket so far.
I am not "Swissinfo" but DO see some prices of EU origin in the shelves at reduced prices. Far far far away from what it should be. Looks as if the "in-between-traders" and the GSAs keep the profits for themselves. Some of them even openly speaking about the risks of raising foreign currencies. Bad for Switzerland is that quite many of the "in-between-traders" and the GSAs are owned by the countries of the producers.

And such things are the reason why many people regard the CHF in the longer run as a luxury to throw overboard as soon as the EU has sorted out the crisis about Greece, Spain and Portugal
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  #62  
Old 06.08.2011, 19:40
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Re: Swiss to Join Euro?

I did some shopping at Ikea today, but before I left, I compared the prices on ikea.ch and ikea.fr. To my surprise, CH prices for all the articles I was about to buy, were in line with the current EUR/CHF exchange rate (1.1:1). Thumbs up for Ikea!

Migros prices still suck, though. 5CHF for a packet of wild rice? WTF. This buys 20kgs of rice at its country of origin. I also saw some mushrooms imported from Poland - 2,80CHF/100g. The same ones sold in a Polish supermarket, last weekend, were 3CHF/kg!
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  #63  
Old 06.08.2011, 20:13
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Re: Swiss to Join Euro?

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I did some shopping at Ikea today, but before I left, I compared the prices on ikea.ch and ikea.fr. To my surprise, CH prices for all the articles I was about to buy, were in line with the current EUR/CHF exchange rate (1.1:1). Thumbs up for Ikea!

Migros prices still suck, though. 5CHF for a packet of wild rice? WTF. This buys 20kgs of rice at its country of origin. I also saw some mushrooms imported from Poland - 2,80CHF/100g. The same ones sold in a Polish supermarket, last weekend, were 3CHF/kg!
Interesting stuff.
I have been looking for a new car in Germany; then I found that Swiss Renault have some good price discounts to compete with euro prices.

Might be worth me buying in CH with a small premium just to keep life simple plus getting a much quicker delivery?
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  #64  
Old 06.08.2011, 20:46
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Re: Swiss to Join Euro?

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I did some shopping at Ikea today, but before I left, I compared the prices on ikea.ch and ikea.fr. To my surprise, CH prices for all the articles I was about to buy, were in line with the current EUR/CHF exchange rate (1.1:1). Thumbs up for Ikea!

Migros prices still suck, though. 5CHF for a packet of wild rice? WTF. This buys 20kgs of rice at its country of origin. I also saw some mushrooms imported from Poland - 2,80CHF/100g. The same ones sold in a Polish supermarket, last weekend, were 3CHF/kg!
A) that IKEA CH compares with IKEA FR hardly is a surprise
B) Migros prices ? right today read about what Mr Duttweiler ("TUTTI") said in the 1920ies and 30ties about what now is COOP. Very much what he would say about HIS thing right today ! NO, I think he would not be amused at all but rather furious if he saw M today He in the 1920ies criticized that CH retailers
- had too expensive and luxurious interiors in their shop
- had too many articles of absolutely the same kind
- made little purchases at too high costs
- did not care about what people had to pay for similar products in other countries in Europe
- too complicated structures
- purchases done via in-between-traders
COMPARE all this to what M is doing today and you get it !
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  #65  
Old 06.08.2011, 20:47
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Re: Swiss to Join Euro?

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Interesting stuff.
I have been looking for a new car in Germany; then I found that Swiss Renault have some good price discounts to compete with euro prices.

Might be worth me buying in CH with a small premium just to keep life simple plus getting a much quicker delivery?
You need to do the maths carefully. Mind the MwSt, which can help you drive the price even lower if you claim the difference back, but also keep in mind the spread on currency exchange rate, as you will be paying more than the average forex rates for your EUROs.

I would also check if one can get further discounts both outside Switzerland, as locally. Swiss dealers rarely give discounts or freebies, which are common in most EU countries.

Cool if Renault is indeed competitive. Audi is a prime example of one that isn't:

http://www.audi.ch/ch/brand/de/neuwagen/a6.html
from 57,100 CHF (incl 8% MwSt) = ~52,800 CHF netto

http://www.audi.de/de/brand/de/neuwagen/a6.html
from 38,500 EUR (incl 19% MwSt) = ~32,350 EUR netto

with current exchange rates, thats 18,000CHF difference :O
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  #66  
Old 06.08.2011, 20:49
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Re: Swiss to Join Euro?

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Interesting stuff.
I have been looking for a new car in Germany; then I found that Swiss Renault have some good price discounts to compete with euro prices.

Might be worth me buying in CH with a small premium just to keep life simple plus getting a much quicker delivery?
Renault CH has to work with what for them is a problem and good for the consumers, that the latest Bilaterals no longer guard the Swiss GSAs against direct imports. This does NOT work with the expensive German manufacturers but clearly with those in France and Germany. As large garage companies easily can get cars into Switzerland from neighbouring countries. Wonders of the markets
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  #67  
Old 06.08.2011, 20:52
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Re: Swiss to Join Euro?

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- had too expensive and luxurious interiors in their shop
- had too many articles of absolutely the same kind
Seriously, you should travel abroad more often :-).
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  #68  
Old 06.08.2011, 20:53
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Re: Swiss to Join Euro?

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You need to do the maths carefully. Mind the MwSt, which can help you drive the price even lower if you claim the difference back, but also keep in mind the spread on currency exchange rate, as you will be paying more than the average forex rates for your EUROs.

I would also check if one can get further discounts both outside Switzerland, as locally. Swiss dealers rarely give discounts or freebies, which are common in most EU countries.

Cool if Renault is indeed competitive. Audi is a prime example of one that isn't:

http://www.audi.ch/ch/brand/de/neuwagen/a6.html
from 57,100 CHF (incl 8% MwSt) = ~52,800 CHF netto

http://www.audi.de/de/brand/de/neuwagen/a6.html
from 38,500 EUR (incl 19% MwSt) = ~32,350 EUR netto

with current exchange rates, thats 18,000CHF difference :O
True, when importing stuff from the EU zone you have to try to REgain the VAT, which is lower in CH, so that you in the end will profit. We here take profit of this, but have to tell our German customers about it. In case of mail sales, we use CN22-green labels and declare a "value" of "estimate" too help our customers
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  #69  
Old 06.08.2011, 21:00
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Re: Swiss to Join Euro?

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Interesting stuff.
I have been looking for a new car in Germany; then I found that Swiss Renault have some good price discounts to compete with euro prices.

Might be worth me buying in CH with a small premium just to keep life simple plus getting a much quicker delivery?
Ikea prices are all over the place, in the past with more normal exchange rates I always got the CH & DE catalouge, some were way cheaper in CH others way cheaper in DE.
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  #70  
Old 07.08.2011, 00:14
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Re: Swiss to Join Euro?

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You need to do the maths carefully. Mind the MwSt, which can help you drive the price even lower if you claim the difference back, but also keep in mind the spread on currency exchange rate, as you will be paying more than the average forex rates for your EUROs.

I would also check if one can get further discounts both outside Switzerland, as locally. Swiss dealers rarely give discounts or freebies, which are common in most EU countries.

Cool if Renault is indeed competitive. Audi is a prime example of one that isn't:

http://www.audi.ch/ch/brand/de/neuwagen/a6.html
from 57,100 CHF (incl 8% MwSt) = ~52,800 CHF netto

http://www.audi.de/de/brand/de/neuwagen/a6.html
from 38,500 EUR (incl 19% MwSt) = ~32,350 EUR netto

with current exchange rates, thats 18,000CHF difference :O
Very true
Renault are currently offering around 25% reduction on some models but as you say many auto suppliers are just ignoring the problem - Audi as you mention & also Ford (at least on the models I was interested in)
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  #71  
Old 07.08.2011, 00:18
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Re: Swiss to Join Euro?

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True, when importing stuff from the EU zone you have to try to REgain the VAT, which is lower in CH, so that you in the end will profit. We here take profit of this, but have to tell our German customers about it. In case of mail sales, we use CN22-green labels and declare a "value" of "estimate" too help our customers
Often German auto suppliers do not help you to regain the VAT on the auto you buy but they often do provide a full service to import your car & do all the paperwork so you get an auto that has Swiss MFK & Swiss number plate @ no extra cost over the German price including VAT.
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  #72  
Old 07.08.2011, 00:39
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Re: Swiss to Join Euro?

Still can't see many credible reasons from Suisse perspective to join the EU, at least not in full
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  #73  
Old 07.08.2011, 06:19
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Re: Swiss to Join Euro?

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Are you by any chance Italian?

Reality check: The Italian debt was at 116% of the countries GDP last year. If I had more debts at the bank than I earn gross in a year, I would not call my situation "in good order".

Spain indeed had it's finances very well under control - at another cost: The country has still an education system that the OECD calls one of the poorest in an developed country. That's why there are so many young unemployed - over 40%!
I'd overall put my money rather on Spain than Italy though.
I am Scotch-Irish-Austrian-Choctaw. So no, not Italian.

We are talking past each other a bit here. Yes their debt is high. So, like a responsibile country, they have slashed spending, and raised taxes, such that they are now paying for all current programs as they go. (thus the primary surplus). Yes, they still need to go a little further to cover their Debt service costs Now, if Italy were on the lira, they would hold the line their budget, get a little loose monetarily, pump some cash into the economy to help it grow and watch their revenue rise with it, as well as see the debt-to-GDP ratio fall.

Under the Euro they can't do that. A few years ago, it worked differently because lenders (very stupidly) assumed everyone on the Euro was as creditworthy as Germany. But Greeks were always Greeks, even when they had Germany's credit card. Then, when it turned out the Germans (understandably) had no desire to pay Greece's bills, creditors woke up to reality.

Which meant that for people not behaving like a drunken teen in first strip club with daddy's card, suddenly the cost of managing their debt skyrocketed as they realized they did not have the implicit German guarantee of their debt. Which means there was really nothing good in the euro for them.

Again, Italy is in a mess, but they are doing all the right things they can do, but not all the things they COULD do, if not on the Euro.
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Old 07.08.2011, 06:48
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Re: Swiss to Join Euro?

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The ECB can make some policies that do have effects but overall is the Euro weak because the economy is weak - specifically the PIGS screw up. I don't at all agree to statements like "they were hit by the crisis" - their governments actively screwed up. Don't blame the US sub-prime or anything else for it if you do not have your act together - everyone in his right mind could see that the construction sector in Spain was massively overheating. Everyone in his right mind can guess that the public spending in Greece was too high. And yes, everyone can see that Italy has a rather weak economic outlook- so not much to counter the debt burden they piled up.
The only thing I want to take issue with is this part.

The PIIGS governments can do precious little if private industry has chosen to go batshit investing in real estate. Further, it would be taken as astounding nanny-stating if a government intervened to stop a bank from investing in (then) highly-profitable real estate market.

Did they have to bail the banks out? No, I suppose not, but the cost of NOT doing so was worse than the cost of doing so, moral hazard notwithstanding. Personally, I would have preferred that the bailouts (that, as an American, happened largely on MY dime, including many European banks that were insured through AIG) be a lot more punitive, involve automatic removal of executives and clipping of golden parachutes, as well prevention of bonus payouts. Government bailouts should be a really painful thing to accept. But, what's done is done. I would argue Ireland's government did screw up, by guaranteeing their banks when they didn't realize how big a check they were writing. But it's hard for me to see how the government messed up by not seizing the banks and stopping them from investing.
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  #75  
Old 07.08.2011, 11:18
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Re: Swiss to Join Euro?

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PIIGS
This is really offensive I think.
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  #76  
Old 07.08.2011, 11:25
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Re: Swiss to Join Euro?

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This is really offensive I think.
But it is the commonly used expression
PIIGS = Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece, Spain
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  #77  
Old 07.08.2011, 11:35
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Re: Swiss to Join Euro?

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This is really offensive I think.
Happier with I PIS G??
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  #78  
Old 07.08.2011, 11:49
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Re: Swiss to Join Euro?

Nah, GIPSI would be better ;-)
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  #79  
Old 07.08.2011, 11:55
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Re: Swiss to Join Euro?

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Very true
Renault are currently offering around 25% reduction on some models but as you say many auto suppliers are just ignoring the problem - Audi as you mention & also Ford (at least on the models I was interested in)
Just got a huge newspaper supplement today from SEAT offering up to 25% discounts so some suppliers are waking up
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Old 07.08.2011, 12:15
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Re: Swiss to Join Euro?

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Just got a huge newspaper supplement today from SEAT offering up to 25% discounts so some suppliers are waking up
How do the prices compare with German dealers? Did you do any calculations?
Your question actually made me think if I need a new car ;-)
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