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Old 06.08.2011, 11:29
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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The longer I watch the EU blunder along, the less I want to join or apply rules and regulations that they have, so to me it's irrelevant what they do.
Maybe so, but several people have asked if there is anywhere in the world where foreigners are allowed to vote, and the answer is: the European Union!

Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing is a whole different matter (although the United Kingdom has allowed citizens of the Irish Republic to vote without much harm for several decades).
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Old 06.08.2011, 11:30
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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Switzerland is christian, the majority rules. The Swiss know that once the door is open for one thing, more will follow. Once there's a minaret on every corner, then it's the right to call for prayer five times a day over a loud speaker. It's enough we have to hear the Swiss bells chiming nearly all day on Sundays. You think foreigners should come in and tell the country what to do? Why should foreigners be allowed to dictate to Switzerland what roads should be built? Once people can come into a country and dictate it's outcome (like what's happening in Britain) it's doomed. Whether you think it's fair or not Switzerland has a right to say no and decide the direction of "their" country. Plus "too many cooks spoil the soup." To many differing cultures, each thinking of "their own" people, and "their" own needs, wanting their "own" laws in their host country doesn't work.
The amount of foreigners in Switzerland are clearly in the minority to the amount of Swiss that logical. There is no evidence that that would happen, just because they build minarets doesn't mean that there gonna start calling from them. There are 200 mosques in Switzerland only 4 have minarets. Secondly why should the christians have more right to practice there religion to the full rather than the muslims. Now the minarets was one example what about the building of new roads or hospitals all subject to local refurendums. That doesn't just effect the swiss, but also people like you who are living here. you might have liked the view before but now they want a huge building in front of it and your against without these rights you can say nothing about it. Switzerland needs to grow up and learn that the world is becoming globalised. And also who cares if no one else has it someone has to start the process.
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  #43  
Old 06.08.2011, 11:54
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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The amount of foreigners in Switzerland are clearly in the minority to the amount of Swiss that logical. There is no evidence that that would happen, just because they build minarets doesn't mean that there gonna start calling from them. There are 200 mosques in Switzerland only 4 have minarets. Secondly why should the christians have more right to practice there religion to the full rather than the muslims. Now the minarets was one example what about the building of new roads or hospitals all subject to local refurendums. That doesn't just effect the swiss, but also people like you who are living here. you might have liked the view before but now they want a huge building in front of it and your against without these rights you can say nothing about it. Switzerland needs to grow up and learn that the world is becoming globalised. And also who cares if no one else has it someone has to start the process.
If you want to start a revolution go somewhere else...Switzerland is a christian country...get it? That's just like me working in a vegetarian store and complaining because they don't sell beef. They're a vegetarian store, if you want beef go somewhere else. You seem to know very little about Switzerland and globalisation. So what, you think that Switzerland shouldn't be allowed to run their own country? I see, let a bunch of outsiders take over since the Swiss have made such a mess of Switzerland. NOT. Human behavior is funny. Give them an inch they take a yard. Once you allow one thing, then you have to open the doors for others. Unfortunately, many groups think of their own so-called rights, and not the country they are in. I call it "hijacking their host country." A christian certainly couldn't go into a muslim country and build a statue of Christ with all the wrappings either. A woman can't drive in Saudi Arabia, I feel a woman has a right to drive. Or she can't wear a sundress or shorts with sandals. She has to cover her head. Should a foreign woman come to Saudi Arabia and request that they change their laws and rules? It is what it is...
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  #44  
Old 06.08.2011, 12:16
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

The European Union does not allow foreigners to vote, it allows Europeans from other member states the right to vote in other countries within their overall territory. I lived 9 years in the UK and was never allowed to vote even though I was a taxpayer.
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Old 06.08.2011, 12:16
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

Wasn't the same fear of unknown and same backward mentality that prevented the Swiss allowing Swiss women the right to vote? Women vote today, even though they were the last country in Europe to do that. And nothing bad came along because of that, on the contrary, you see today dedicated and talented women in politics, making Switzerland a good country to live in...
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Old 06.08.2011, 12:37
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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The European Union does not allow foreigners to vote, it allows Europeans from other member states the right to vote in other countries within their overall territory.
Yeah, foreigners from other member states.
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  #47  
Old 06.08.2011, 13:17
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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Maybe so, but several people have asked if there is anywhere in the world where foreigners are allowed to vote, and the answer is: the European Union!
Just to make it absolutely clear: EU-foreigners are only allowed to vote in local and EU elections. Local as in "village", not state or countrywide ones.

Not sure if you know what your gemeinderat does, but I have actually been in one in Germany: Deciding on the zones to build houses and deciding on the rules in which way said houses are allowed to be build was the main task. The other half was typically the approval or not of house builders asking for exceptions from the plan.
In a larger village you might have some things like a swimming pool to budget on top. All in all nothing extremely exciting unless you are planning to build a house.
There is no danger of allowing minarets if foreigners can vote for this council as well and to be honest: Hardly half of the Swiss go to those elections and they actually even get a fine if they don't! No big deal and nothing where foreigners could possibly change the "Swiss culture" or Christian values. That's just a bizarre fear.
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Old 06.08.2011, 13:49
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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The European Union does not allow foreigners to vote, it allows Europeans from other member states the right to vote in other countries within their overall territory. I lived 9 years in the UK and was never allowed to vote even though I was a taxpayer.

In the UK
Anyone who will be aged 18 or over on polling day[3] and who is a national of the United Kingdom (all forms of British nationality but excluding British protected persons[4]), the Republic of Ireland, a Commonwealth country (including Fiji, Zimbabwe[5] and the whole of Cyprus[6]) or a European Union member state[7] can apply to the Electoral Registration Officer in the district in the UK where they reside with a 'considerable degree of permanence'[8] to be listed in that area's Electoral Register. A person who has two homes (such as a university student who has a term-time address and lives at home during holidays) may be able to register to vote at both addresses as long as they are not in the same electoral area[9] (though an elector can only vote once in any single election or referendum).
In addition, to qualify to appear on the Electoral Register, applicants who are Commonwealth citizens must either possess leave to enter or remain in the UK or not require such leave on the date of their application[10] and no applicant may be a convicted person detained in prison or a mental hospital (or unlawfully at large if he/she would otherwise have been detained)[11] or a person found guilty of certain corrupt or illegal practices
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Old 06.08.2011, 15:54
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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Switzerland is christian, the majority rules. The Swiss know that once the door is open for one thing, more will follow. Once there's a minaret on every corner, then it's the right to call for prayer five times a day over a loud speaker. It's enough we have to hear the Swiss bells chiming nearly all day on Sundays. You think foreigners should come in and tell the country what to do? Why should foreigners be allowed to dictate to Switzerland what roads should be built? Once people can come into a country and dictate it's outcome (like what's happening in Britain) it's doomed. Whether you think it's fair or not Switzerland has a right to say no and decide the direction of "their" country. Plus "too many cooks spoil the soup." To many differing cultures, each thinking of "their own" people, and "their" own needs, wanting their "own" laws in their host country doesn't work.
...wow you try too hard...SVP and Breivik forum => that way
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Old 06.08.2011, 15:56
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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If you want to start a revolution go somewhere else...Switzerland is a christian country...get it? That's just like me working in a vegetarian store and complaining because they don't sell beef. They're a vegetarian store, if you want beef go somewhere else. You seem to know very little about Switzerland and globalisation. So what, you think that Switzerland shouldn't be allowed to run their own country? I see, let a bunch of outsiders take over since the Swiss have made such a mess of Switzerland. NOT. Human behavior is funny. Give them an inch they take a yard. Once you allow one thing, then you have to open the doors for others. Unfortunately, many groups think of their own so-called rights, and not the country they are in. I call it "hijacking their host country." A christian certainly couldn't go into a muslim country and build a statue of Christ with all the wrappings either. A woman can't drive in Saudi Arabia, I feel a woman has a right to drive. Or she can't wear a sundress or shorts with sandals. She has to cover her head. Should a foreign woman come to Saudi Arabia and request that they change their laws and rules? It is what it is...
...are you for real?
stop reading the Breivik manifest ffs.
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  #51  
Old 06.08.2011, 16:18
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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Just to make it absolutely clear: EU-foreigners are only allowed to vote in local and EU elections. Local as in "village", not state or countrywide ones.
Not in the UK - EU citizens can vote in everything except general elections and UK-wide referendums - so they can vote in Scottish Parliament and Welsh Asssembly elections, but not Westminster ones.


http://www.electoralcommission.org.u...r-registration

Who can vote?
British, Irish and qualifying citizens of Commonwealth countries (including Cyprus and Malta) can vote at all elections.
Citizens of other EU member states resident in the UK can vote in local government elections but cannot vote in UK Parliamentary elections.
Those resident in Scotland or Wales may also vote in Scottish Parliamentary or National Assembly for Wales elections.
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  #52  
Old 06.08.2011, 16:56
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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If you want to start a revolution go somewhere else...Switzerland is a christian country...get it? That's just like me working in a vegetarian store and complaining because they don't sell beef. They're a vegetarian store, if you want beef go somewhere else. You seem to know very little about Switzerland and globalisation. So what, you think that Switzerland shouldn't be allowed to run their own country? I see, let a bunch of outsiders take over since the Swiss have made such a mess of Switzerland. NOT. Human behavior is funny. Give them an inch they take a yard. Once you allow one thing, then you have to open the doors for others. Unfortunately, many groups think of their own so-called rights, and not the country they are in. I call it "hijacking their host country." A christian certainly couldn't go into a muslim country and build a statue of Christ with all the wrappings either. A woman can't drive in Saudi Arabia, I feel a woman has a right to drive. Or she can't wear a sundress or shorts with sandals. She has to cover her head. Should a foreign woman come to Saudi Arabia and request that they change their laws and rules? It is what it is...
About "Switzerland is a christian country...get it?"

I wonder for how long?

Although around 70% of Swiss people are members of a Christian religion the published figures of regular Church attendance vary between 16% & 30% of the members. In my opinion it is only the fact that you have to select a religion on your tax form that makes the member numbers so high?
Worse is the fact that fewer then half of the children of regular Church attenders go on to become regular Church attenders.

If you look at the situation in UK for comparison they are now forecasting the end of the Anglican church. Average age of Church members is now 62 & where will this be in 10 years?
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Old 06.08.2011, 17:51
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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About "Switzerland is a christian country...get it?"

I wonder for how long?

Although around 70% of Swiss people are members of a Christian religion the published figures of regular Church attendance vary between 16% & 30% of the members. In my opinion it is only the fact that you have to select a religion on your tax form that makes the member numbers so high?
Worse is the fact that fewer then half of the children of regular Church attenders go on to become regular Church attenders.

If you look at the situation in UK for comparison they are now forecasting the end of the Anglican church. Average age of Church members is now 62 & where will this be in 10 years?
Yes, the concept of religion is changing all over the world. But it doesn't mean that a religion foreign to a country's values and ideas should take over either. Switzerland is a pretty decent country, perhaps not primarily because of religion, but they value their country and take care of it. That's a big problem with many Muslim countries. They value their religion more than the productiveness of the country. Balance is the key.
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Old 06.08.2011, 18:21
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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Yeah, foreigners from other member states.
THIS does not affect the possible votes in Switzerland. As the question is not "are citizens of EU-countries residing in Switzerland" allowed to vote, BUT "are foreigners residing in Switzerland" allowed to vote

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About "Switzerland is a christian country...get it?"

I wonder for how long?

Although around 70% of Swiss people are members of a Christian religion the published figures of regular Church attendance vary between 16% & 30% of the members. In my opinion it is only the fact that you have to select a religion on your tax form that makes the member numbers so high?
Worse is the fact that fewer then half of the children of regular Church attenders go on to become regular Church attenders.

If you look at the situation in UK for comparison they are now forecasting the end of the Anglican church. Average age of Church members is now 62 & where will this be in 10 years?
Membership of Churches and attendance to church does not have much to do with who believes in what. This is not bad but simply normal
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Old 06.08.2011, 19:19
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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Yes, the concept of religion is changing all over the world. But it doesn't mean that a religion foreign to a country's values and ideas should take over either. Switzerland is a pretty decent country, perhaps not primarily because of religion, but they value their country and take care of it. That's a big problem with many Muslim countries. They value their religion more than the productiveness of the country. Balance is the key.
About " it doesn't mean that a religion foreign to a country's values and ideas should take over either"

There is no reason that a religion foreign to a country's values and ideas will survive as a religion for much longer than the local religion.

Once people are well educated, begin to think for themselves & are exposed to modern science & media then the more difficult it is for them to believe many of the things that were written (in good faith) thousand of years ago.
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Old 07.08.2011, 23:04
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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If you want to start a revolution go somewhere else...Switzerland is a christian country...get it? That's just like me working in a vegetarian store and complaining because they don't sell beef. They're a vegetarian store, if you want beef go somewhere else. You seem to know very little about Switzerland and globalisation. So what, you think that Switzerland shouldn't be allowed to run their own country? I see, let a bunch of outsiders take over since the Swiss have made such a mess of Switzerland. NOT. Human behavior is funny. Give them an inch they take a yard. Once you allow one thing, then you have to open the doors for others. Unfortunately, many groups think of their own so-called rights, and not the country they are in. I call it "hijacking their host country." A christian certainly couldn't go into a muslim country and build a statue of Christ with all the wrappings either. A woman can't drive in Saudi Arabia, I feel a woman has a right to drive. Or she can't wear a sundress or shorts with sandals. She has to cover her head. Should a foreign woman come to Saudi Arabia and request that they change their laws and rules? It is what it is...
First of all, unlike you I am a full blooded Swiss citizen so I am not going anywhere else, and i like to think I know a thing or to about my birthplace. You know have the right to vote great, so why not give other foreigners that right too.

Secondly and I want to make this crystal clear. THE SWISS CAN STILL HAVE A SAY. We are in the majority so if anything pushes us too far the wrong way we can still turn it down. In issues of foreign policy and things that concern only the swiss, foreigns should not have a say. But local issues that directly concern both swiss and foreigners as i have repeatedly pointed out like the building of new roads and tunnels they should. We are NOT talking about electing a new parliament, that should still be a swiss right. But things like a new road effect not only the swiss but ALSO the foreigners. The foreigners are under represented, there lives are effected by their neighbors decision but have them selves no say, that i find is wrong. you cant be serious and think that the outsiders will hijack the system, let me give you a lesson in Swiss demographics, there are 7.8 million people currently living in switzerland. 1 million people are foreigners, that make it nearly seven swiss to one foreigner. I don't think you have to worry about the foreigners ruling things.

Now what you mean open the doors for others, a higher rate of emigration is good, we need foreigners coming in since we have not enough labour to fill all the spots.

Since your so concerned I can promise you no foreigner will come and change our ancient traditions, I some how doubt many will want to and who knows some change might even do us some good, it certainly wont kill us. They will only have a voice in local matters that directly concern them as much as we do.
I'm sure at some point you were also a foreigner.
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Old 07.08.2011, 23:31
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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If you want to start a revolution go somewhere else...Switzerland is a christian country...get it? That's just like me working in a vegetarian store and complaining because they don't sell beef. They're a vegetarian store, if you want beef go somewhere else. You seem to know very little about Switzerland and globalisation. So what, you think that Switzerland shouldn't be allowed to run their own country? I see, let a bunch of outsiders take over since the Swiss have made such a mess of Switzerland. NOT. Human behavior is funny. Give them an inch they take a yard. Once you allow one thing, then you have to open the doors for others. Unfortunately, many groups think of their own so-called rights, and not the country they are in. I call it "hijacking their host country." A christian certainly couldn't go into a muslim country and build a statue of Christ with all the wrappings either. A woman can't drive in Saudi Arabia, I feel a woman has a right to drive. Or she can't wear a sundress or shorts with sandals. She has to cover her head. Should a foreign woman come to Saudi Arabia and request that they change their laws and rules? It is what it is...
I think your taking this a tiny bit too far. Firstly it's aout a vote on local issues not national and secondly, what makes you think that all the foreigners living here are Muslim?
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Old 07.08.2011, 23:59
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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First of all, unlike you I am a full blooded Swiss citizen so I am not going anywhere else, and i like to think I know a thing or to about my birthplace. You know have the right to vote great, so why not give other foreigners that right too.

Secondly and I want to make this crystal clear. THE SWISS CAN STILL HAVE A SAY. We are in the majority so if anything pushes us too far the wrong way we can still turn it down. In issues of foreign policy and things that concern only the swiss, foreigns should not have a say. But local issues that directly concern both swiss and foreigners as i have repeatedly pointed out like the building of new roads and tunnels they should. We are NOT talking about electing a new parliament, that should still be a swiss right. But things like a new road effect not only the swiss but ALSO the foreigners. The foreigners are under represented, there lives are effected by their neighbors decision but have them selves no say, that i find is wrong. you cant be serious and think that the outsiders will hijack the system, let me give you a lesson in Swiss demographics, there are 7.8 million people currently living in switzerland. 1 million people are foreigners, that make it nearly seven swiss to one foreigner. I don't think you have to worry about the foreigners ruling things.

Now what you mean open the doors for others, a higher rate of emigration is good, we need foreigners coming in since we have not enough labour to fill all the spots.

Since your so concerned I can promise you no foreigner will come and change our ancient traditions, I some how doubt many will want to and who knows some change might even do us some good, it certainly wont kill us. They will only have a voice in local matters that directly concern them as much as we do.
I'm sure at some point you were also a foreigner.
Let's add to all this that a majority of "foreigners" here are NOT English-speakers but people of Mediterreanean origin. I am still fascinated by the estent of which English-speakers here think to be of relevance over here . And if you are concerned about any particular area, neither of them has a real clout
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Old 08.08.2011, 00:14
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

Hi,

Can you please point me to a single documented situation where a foreigner has dictated the laws of government of the United Kingdom?

Only UK nationals may vote in a parliamentary election - either by-election or general election. EU citizens may vote in in the UK in European parliamentary elections, local council elections and in elections of the Scottish Parliament, Welsh and Northern Ireland Assemblies. My experience of naturalised British is they often have a greater understanding of the political landscape than those who are British by birth.

I worry slightly more about those people who vote without bothering to acquaint themselves properly with the issues they are voting about - instead getting their information from the gutter press without questioning it or engaging in proper debate.

Cheers,
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Old 08.08.2011, 00:19
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

Well, if resident non-citizens are permitted to vote, it logically follows that non-resident citizens should NOT be allowed to vote!

Any of you Swissies residing outre-mer OK with that?

Tom
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