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  #61  
Old 08.08.2011, 00:40
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

As a citizen of the Republic of Ireland I am completely disenfranchised. Ireland does not allow citizens living abroad to vote (very unusual) and my host county does not give me any voting rights. Still, I knew this before I left so I am not exactly upset by it. Just feels a little odd not to have a any democratic voice.

In Ireland the system works like this:

Local Elections: All residents allowed to vote regardless of nationality
European Election: All EU citizens allowed to vote
General Election: All Resident Citizens of the ROI & the UK allowed to vote
Referendums: Only resident Irish
Presidential Election: Only resident Irish citizens

So a Swiss person in Ireland has some (albeit limited) voting rights, although an Irish person in Switzerland has none. The Swiss person has full voting rights in Switzerland too.

I think its fair that all residents get votes in local elections. After all the local issues effect locals regardless of passport colour. However, issues of national import should solely be decided by citizens of that country.

Last edited by Stifoan; 08.08.2011 at 01:03.
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  #62  
Old 08.08.2011, 00:57
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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Hi,

Can you please point me to a single documented situation where a foreigner has dictated the laws of government of the United Kingdom?

Only UK nationals may vote in a parliamentary election - either by-election or general election. EU citizens may vote in in the UK in European parliamentary elections, local council elections and in elections of the Scottish Parliament, Welsh and Northern Ireland Assemblies. My experience of naturalised British is they often have a greater understanding of the political landscape than those who are British by birth.

I worry slightly more about those people who vote without bothering to acquaint themselves properly with the issues they are voting about - instead getting their information from the gutter press without questioning it or engaging in proper debate.

Cheers,
Nick
Not true. All citizens of the commonwealth and the Republic of Ireland who reside in the UK are permitted to vote in ALL UK elections.
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  #63  
Old 08.08.2011, 01:07
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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Hi,

Can you please point me to a single documented situation where a foreigner has dictated the laws of government of the United Kingdom?
Well there are these to start with :

Last edited by Stifoan; 08.08.2011 at 02:44.
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  #64  
Old 08.08.2011, 04:56
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

This may be beating a dead horse, but I'll come right out and say it. There wouldn't be all this fuss about foreigners voting in local elections in Zurich if it weren't so difficult to become a Swiss citizen. Does it really take 10 years to learn the local language? Does it really take 10 years to show you are an asset to your canton and the Swiss Confederation? Does it take 10 years to "integrate" into Swiss society, and how much integration is necessary to be a good citizen?

P.S. I know that for some ex-patriates (not necessarily English-speakers) might not speak the local language after 10 years----but there is no reason why they shouldn't.
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  #65  
Old 08.08.2011, 08:13
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

Yes, but these were all agreed to by an elected government, and/or by referendum.

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Well there are these to start with :
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  #66  
Old 08.08.2011, 11:30
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

Wikipedia does a decent overview of countries and the right of foreigners to vote. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_o...igners_to_vote , going into much more detail across the globe than just EU.

Anyhow, am a bit surprised at the discussion on this subject, as CH already gives the right of foreigners (all nationalties) to vote in local elections in 5 Cantons already. It is only now a case of Canton Zurich voting on this, so the basic concept of swiss givning foreigners some rights has already been thrashed about. Here is an article from 2004 about the issue in Vaud. It even goes on to say some words about xenophobia and Zurich.
http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/Home/Arc...ml?cid=3749086
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  #67  
Old 08.08.2011, 11:42
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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First of all, unlike you I am a full blooded Swiss citizen so I am not going anywhere else, and i like to think I know a thing or to about my birthplace. You know have the right to vote great, so why not give other foreigners that right too.

Secondly and I want to make this crystal clear. THE SWISS CAN STILL HAVE A SAY. We are in the majority so if anything pushes us too far the wrong way we can still turn it down. In issues of foreign policy and things that concern only the swiss, foreigns should not have a say. But local issues that directly concern both swiss and foreigners as i have repeatedly pointed out like the building of new roads and tunnels they should. We are NOT talking about electing a new parliament, that should still be a swiss right. But things like a new road effect not only the swiss but ALSO the foreigners. The foreigners are under represented, there lives are effected by their neighbors decision but have them selves no say, that i find is wrong. you cant be serious and think that the outsiders will hijack the system, let me give you a lesson in Swiss demographics, there are 7.8 million people currently living in switzerland. 1 million people are foreigners, that make it nearly seven swiss to one foreigner. I don't think you have to worry about the foreigners ruling things.

Now what you mean open the doors for others, a higher rate of emigration is good, we need foreigners coming in since we have not enough labour to fill all the spots.

Since your so concerned I can promise you no foreigner will come and change our ancient traditions, I some how doubt many will want to and who knows some change might even do us some good, it certainly wont kill us. They will only have a voice in local matters that directly concern them as much as we do.
I'm sure at some point you were also a foreigner.
Being "full blooded" means what exactly? I have met people that know about their host countries more than the natives! Unlike you I am a Swiss Citizen who has an objective point of view, and I see what is happening to countries who don't hold on to their values and traditions. There is always room for flexibility, but they must have limits. It's easy for others to come into a country and want to change it into the place they actually left. Then they cry about their rights. The only rights they have are to leave if they don't like the place where they are. IMHO foreigners having a say in building roads and tunnels is none of their business. So the Gotthard Tunnel would never have been built because a some foreigners, who are here for a job for 4 years, disagree because it blocks the view from their flat? Unless a foreigner plans to live permanently in the country and apply for citizenship, there's no reason why they should have a say in the direction Switzerland wants to take for their future. Most don't care about the country anyways and leave within a certain number of years. Hope that help to cleanse your "Swiss blood" a bit...LOL
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  #68  
Old 08.08.2011, 11:58
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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I think your taking this a tiny bit too far. Firstly it's aout a vote on local issues not national and secondly, what makes you think that all the foreigners living here are Muslim?
Did I write that? The problem is that Muslims have a reputation of immigrating into countries but want to be Muslim first. Their religion cuts off their objectivity. That's why France banned the burqua. French women don't walk around with their faces covered because of a religion. It's the same if I have guest in my home and they want to walk around naked because they're nudist. It ain't happening...

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Hi,

Can you please point me to a single documented situation where a foreigner has dictated the laws of government of the United Kingdom?

Only UK nationals may vote in a parliamentary election - either by-election or general election. EU citizens may vote in in the UK in European parliamentary elections, local council elections and in elections of the Scottish Parliament, Welsh and Northern Ireland Assemblies. My experience of naturalised British is they often have a greater understanding of the political landscape than those who are British by birth.

I worry slightly more about those people who vote without bothering to acquaint themselves properly with the issues they are voting about - instead getting their information from the gutter press without questioning it or engaging in proper debate.

Cheers,
Nick
Foreigners aren't dictating laws the legal way in Britain per say. But they're certainly changing the landscape. They're enforcing their "own laws" within their communities and there are many cases of "honor killings" by some. And the British authorities are doing nothing about it. They're killing women for being too westernized. There's also a section enforcing Sharai law and one girl was threatened working in a retail store, a British store, if she didn't cover her face. She was very afraid and the authorities did nothing. Many native Britain's are very upset about this "undercover" change taking place in their country and that's one of the reasons Brown was kicked out. The leaders aren't thinking about the citizens. UK is turning into a shambles, they have no backbone...sorry. I give Switzerland credit for that, the people have a say and the Swiss listen. Switzerland is a small country, but they do have backbone and in the end it's their way or the highway...a cliche with a lot of depth.
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  #69  
Old 08.08.2011, 12:00
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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Being "full blooded" means what exactly? I have met people that know about their host countries more than the natives! Unlike you I am a Swiss Citizen who has an objective point of view, and I see what is happening to countries who don't hold on to their values and traditions. There is always room for flexibility, but they must have limits. It's easy for others to come into a country and want to change it into the place they actually left. Then they cry about their rights. The only rights they have are to leave if they don't like the place where they are. IMHO foreigners having a say in building roads and tunnels is none of their business. So the Gotthard Tunnel would never have been built because a some foreigners, who are here for a job for 4 years, disagree because it blocks the view from their flat? Unless a foreigner plans to live permanently in the country and apply for citizenship, there's no reason why they should have a say in the direction Switzerland wants to take for their future. Most don't care about the country anyways and leave within a certain number of years. Hope that help to cleanse your "Swiss blood" a bit...LOL
I don't really believe that he was asking for his blood to be cleansed. I believe he was stating his point of view as someone who was born in Switzerland and a Swiss citizen. Switzerland is a denocracy and whether you have the right to vote or not you have the right to free speech. If you disagree with the proposal then it is your right to vote against it. But may I remind you that you as an American are still a guest in this country, the same as the people you say aren't worthy to have a say in how their taxes are spent and they can revoke your citizenship if they so wish.
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  #70  
Old 08.08.2011, 12:05
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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The UK. Probably all EU countries, but I'm not sure.
With limitations and largely due to history. The old imperial rules meant that anyone could vote in mainland britain if they were resident. This has been carried forward so that people who are born in the commenwealth can vote in local elections, as can EU citizens. I forget the other elections, I know EU citizens can vote in EU elections whereever they are.
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Old 08.08.2011, 12:10
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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Foreigners aren't dictating laws the legal way in Britain per say. But they're certainly changing the landscape. They're enforcing their "own laws" within their communities and there are many cases of "honor killings" by some. And the British authorities are doing nothing about it. They're killing women for being too westernized. There's also a section enforcing Sharai law and one girl was threatened working in a retail store, a British store, if she didn't cover her face. She was very afraid and the authorities did nothing. Many native Britain's are very upset about this "undercover" change taking place in their country and that's one of the reasons Brown was kicked out. The leaders aren't thinking about the citizens. UK is turning into a shambles, they have no backbone...sorry. I give Switzerland credit for that, the people have a say and the Swiss listen. Switzerland is a small country, but they do have backbone and int he end it's their way or the highway...
That is the biggest load of tosh I have read for quite a while. You make it sound as if young girls are just dissappearing while everyone turns a blind eye! Yes there have been honour killings in Britain and many have been brought to justice through the court system. As for the last election. Imigration nor any racail problem had anything to do with Brown losing the election, he lost because the people had lost faith in the labour leadership regarding many things but it was not a racial or religious motive!

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Old 08.08.2011, 12:11
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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it was not a racial or religious motive!
I'm not sure about that.

Mr Brown was Scottish, after all...
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  #73  
Old 08.08.2011, 12:12
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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Foreigners aren't dictating laws the legal way in Britain per say. But they're certainly changing the landscape. They're enforcing their "own laws" within their communities and there are many cases of "honor killings" by some. And the British authorities are doing nothing about it. They're killing women for being too westernized. There's also a section enforcing Sharai law and one girl was threatened working in a retail store, a British store, if she didn't cover her face. She was very afraid and the authorities did nothing. Many native Britain's are very upset about this "undercover" change taking place in their country and that's one of the reasons Brown was kicked out. The leaders aren't thinking about the citizens. UK is turning into a shambles, they have no backbone...sorry.

You clearly know nothing about Britain nor the British. Are you seriously suggesting that those committing so called honour killings are above British law? There has been 1 proven case in the last 10 years and the killer is behind bars.

As for British politics - you are clearly ignorant in that department.

I agree the UK is turning into a shambles but that has more to do with lack of investment and 30 years of mismanagement than immigrants.
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  #74  
Old 08.08.2011, 12:19
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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I'm not sure about that.

Mr Brown was Scottish, after all...
Thanks for making me laugh out when I was pretending to be learning German vocab!
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Old 08.08.2011, 12:25
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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That is the biggest load of tosh I have read for quite a while. You make it sound as if young girls are just dissappearing while everyone turns a blind eye! Yes there have been honour killings in Britain and many have been brought to justice through the court system. As for the last election. Imigration nor any racail problem had anything to do with Brown losing the election, he lost because the people had lost faith in the labour leadership regarding many things but it was not a racial or religious motive!
Depends on where you were. If you were in Guildford, it was most likely because of the complete hash Brown made of the economy. If you were in the east end of London or Bradford outskirts, it is more likely to be driven by a feeling of being made an outsider in your own country.

Before (in spite of) this being dragged down into the customary rants about Muslims v Rest of Humanity, I would like to point out that Muslims I have worked with and known are equally afraid of these nutters, and, as implicated above, very scared of people who are in their own community who want to build some idealised idea of medaeval Arabia where they live. Most would like to live quiet lives, without fear of being beaten up for not wearing a tent, and yes enjoying the occasional alchoholic libation.

Posters should remember that there are as many different brands of people calling themselves Muslim as there are those who call themselves Christian. Bearing this in mind, IMHO calling the salfists and wahabists mainstream about as valid as calling the Amish or Jehova's Witnesses mainstream Christian.
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  #76  
Old 08.08.2011, 12:39
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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Depends on where you were. If you were in Guildford, it was most likely because of the complete hash Brown made of the economy. If you were in the east end of London or Bradford outskirts, it is more likely to be driven by a feeling of being made an outsider in your own country.

Before (in spite of) this being dragged down into the customary rants about Muslims v Rest of Humanity, I would like to point out that Muslims I have worked with and known are equally afraid of these nutters, and, as implicated above, very scared of people who are in their own community who want to build some idealised idea of medaeval Arabia where they live. Most would like to live quiet lives, without fear of being beaten up for not wearing a tent, and yes enjoying the occasional alchoholic libation.

Posters should remember that there are as many different brands of people calling themselves Muslim as there are those who call themselves Christian. Bearing this in mind, IMHO calling the salfists and wahabists mainstream about as valid as calling the Amish or Jehova's Witnesses mainstream Christian.
I agree there are fanatics in every religion but it wasn't religion or race that brought the last government down and anyway for all their unpopularity the opposition at the time didn't get a majority!
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Old 08.08.2011, 12:43
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

Research* shows that 74% of political threads on any subject on the English Forum will end up as arguments about Islam.

* I looked inside my head, man.
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  #78  
Old 08.08.2011, 12:48
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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Research* shows that 74% of political threads on any subject on the English Forum will end up as arguments about Islam.

* I looked inside my head, man.
I think the same research will show that I should stay out of them because I only get in trouble
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Old 08.08.2011, 14:58
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Yes, but these were all agreed to by an elected government, and/or by referendum.
Well that's true. I was being factitious.
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Old 08.08.2011, 15:27
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

Somewhat amazed that the ones against giving foreigners a vote on local issues are American and Canadian by birth. Wonder why?
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