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  #101  
Old 08.08.2011, 17:19
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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Somewhat amazed that the ones against giving foreigners a vote on local issues are American and Canadian by birth. Wonder why?
Because they've seen how well unfettered immigration and bending over backwards works in the UK and Europe?
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  #102  
Old 08.08.2011, 17:21
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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Well, it is 2011, not 1958, so it's no wonder the country is a bit different.

The problems in Britain lie with the British people, not some non-existent foreign bogeymen.

BTW, quoting the Daily Mail isn't going to help your argument. I love the paper, but it isn't to be taken seriously as a source of information about the United Kingdom.

You'd be better off quoting Viz...
It is what it is...the majority of papers on this subject quote the same thing...the citizens of the country feel overburdened...
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  #103  
Old 08.08.2011, 17:24
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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It is what it is...the majority of papers on this subject quote the same thing...the citizens of the country feel overburdened...
So what? Brits like to moan. They moan incessantly.

Should the British government frame their policies according to whatever this week's pointless whine of the British people is?

And what does any of this ridiculous conversation about a country neither of us live in have to do with Swiss cantonal voting policy anyway?
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  #104  
Old 08.08.2011, 17:26
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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Because they've seen how well unfettered immigration and bending over backwards works in the UK and Europe?
Foreign born population of the United Kingdom: 8.3%

Foreign born population of Switzerland: 21.9%

What was that about unfettered immigration?
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  #105  
Old 08.08.2011, 17:27
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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Honestly I'm sick and tired of reading about religion in topics like this. I neither have the desire to live in Saudi Arabia or the Vatican. I wish religon could butt out of politics. We have laws regarding equality and all countries should stick to them.

Now back on topic: Honestly I'm not fussed if I can vote or not. I would use my right if I had it though. I would also say though that there should be tests to ensure they can speak the language and knows how the political system works here.

We always hear about how foreigners should integrate. This would be a perfect opportunity to encourage that process. I've lived in my current village for 5 years and have no affinity with it whatsoever. It really is only the place where I live. I mean it took me 3 attempts to find the new Migros after it got renovated! I don't inform myself about what's going on in town as my opinion doesn't count anyway. If I could have a say then I'd definitely read up on the topic.

It is regularly reported that villages are increasingly having trouble to fill their executive positions. I'm sure that blocking 20% of the population from participation isn't helping. Personally I would possibly consider participating if I could. This lack of willing people by the way is a big reason in the increasing fusion of villages here.


Regarding the opinions that you should get the Swiss pass if you wanna vote. I would argue this degrades the pass. Everyone who I know who got the pass through citizenship don't feel Swiss. They just got it because it has certain benefits for them. I could get the pass but I haven't cause I'm not Swiss and will never feel Swiss.

Turning Posperity's argument around, I don't see how I swiss person who has lived in the village for 2 months has a better idea of what's better for it than a foreigner who has lived there for 20 years.

And also regarding the Swiss pass being a sign of willingness to stay here: There's only 2 reasons why I'd get it. The first funnily enough is because I would be contemplating leaving the country and I would like to have no problems moving back here and wouldn't want to pay tax at source.

The other is as an insurance against any future anti-foreigner policies
Sounds fishy to me...
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  #106  
Old 08.08.2011, 17:28
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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So what? Brits like to moan. They moan incessantly.

Should the British government frame their policies according to whatever this week's pointless whine of the British people is?

And what does any of this ridiculous conversation about a country neither of us live in have to do with Swiss cantonal voting policy anyway?
It's not just this week...and you know that. It's a "serious" situation in Britain and it's getting worse...
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  #107  
Old 08.08.2011, 17:31
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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Foreign born population of the United Kingdom: 8.3%

Foreign born population of Switzerland: 21.9%

What was that about unfettered immigration?
No, that's bad statistics.

The United Kingdom is bigger than Switzerland. If you look at the world as a whole, 0% are foreign born. If you look at a random square meter somewhere on the planet, the odds are that if somebody is standing there right now it's unlikely that he or she was also born there, let's call it 99.9% foreign born. Therefore, the smaller the unit you are looking at, the higher the percentage of foreign-born population will be. Therefore it would be more meaningful to compare the Swiss percentage with a similar area in the United Kingdom. If you look at the Souff-East for example you might actually find the figure is higher than 21.9%.
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  #108  
Old 08.08.2011, 17:32
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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It's not just this week...and you know that. It's a "serious" situation in Britain and it's getting worse...
It has been a perpetual gripe of the indigenous Brits since the 1950s and beyond. If it wasn't the Irish, it was the West Indians. If it wasn't the West Indians, it was the East African Indians. If it wasn't the East African Indians, it was the Bangladeshis, the Pakistanis, the Poles, the Lithuanians... blah blah blah.

If it wasn't for the immigrants (who, in fact, make up a substantially smaller percentage of the population than immigrants to Switzerland), the United Kingdom would be a dead end nation with tax at 80%, a shrinking population, shops closing at five in the evening and no decent food.

It's a dump anyway, but pretty much anything that's good about it is a result of the contribution of hard working and motivated immigrants.
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  #109  
Old 08.08.2011, 17:33
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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Ok you want to put it that way...I'm a guest with benefits with a Swiss Passport so I'm an "elite guest" how's that, jealous?LOL...It makes a world of difference...and what about you? I've stayed in Switzerland more years than USA...just think I've had my Swiss Citizenship longer than some "natural blue blood Swiss"...LOL
please stop acting like aq little baby! Is your dad bigger than my dad?
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  #110  
Old 08.08.2011, 17:37
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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Did I write that? The problem is that Muslims have a reputation of immigrating into countries but want to be Muslim first.
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Muslims have a reputation of ? Must Muslims are Arabs or Turks or Iranians or Albanians first. The other thing is a myth. Just as Italians are Italians first.

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Their religion cuts off their objectivity.
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You mean a kind of automatism ? Muslim = non-objective ?

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Foreigners aren't dictating laws the legal way in Britain per say. But they're certainly changing the landscape.
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Changing the landscape ? This can be to the better, for instance in regard to restaurants. But what foreigners do in the UK is irrelevant in the Canton of Zurich.
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  #111  
Old 08.08.2011, 17:40
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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you may be correct, but the problem is that many aren't. And the Brits feel that those that are aren't holding to the British values that they cherish. The country is becoming something different in their eyes. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...0-Britons.html This is how many British feel, at present.
Please mate quote the bloody sun if you must but not the mail!!
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  #112  
Old 08.08.2011, 17:43
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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No, that's bad statistics.
Maybe so, but Switzerland is absolutely packed full of foreigners - about seven million of them - and it still manages to function with some degree of success.
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  #113  
Old 08.08.2011, 17:45
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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Muslims have a reputation of ? Must Muslims are Arabs or Turks or Iranians or Albanians first. The other thing is a myth. Just as Italians are Italians first.


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You mean a kind of automatism ? Muslim = non-objective ?


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Changing the landscape ? This can be to the better, for instance in regard to restaurants. But what foreigners do in the UK is irrelevant in the Canton of Zurich.
Many of these arguments revolve around extrapolation. Something was done in the past and it was okay or even good. It was done a bit more and it was even better. If we assume the world is a linear system, we can keep on doing whatever was good and the world will get better for ever. But nature isn't linear and just because things worked well in the past is no guarantee that you can do some more and it'll still be okay.

It's a bit like saying: Titanic got half way across the Atlantic without striking an iceberg so it can't really be true that it struck one on the second half.

To see whether or not immigration is changing things for the better or the worse you have to look at more complex things than whether the restaurants are nice or at what times shops close.
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  #114  
Old 08.08.2011, 18:02
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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you may be correct, but the problem is that many aren't. And the Brits feel that those that are aren't holding to the British values that they cherish. The country is becoming something different in their eyes. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...0-Britons.html This is how many British feel, at present.
This may be or not as you say, but is hardly relevant for a vote about limited voting for foreigners in the Canton of Zurich. And the Daily Mail "illustrating" their report by a picture of some strictly veiled Muslim women is outing itself as simply a scandalmonger paper. Here below just some other Arab-origin foreigners in Britain

Last edited by Wollishofener; 08.08.2011 at 18:44.
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  #115  
Old 08.08.2011, 18:07
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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If Sid the Sexist could vote, for whom would he vote?
He'd probably confuse us all and vote CVP
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  #116  
Old 08.08.2011, 18:23
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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It has been a perpetual gripe of the indigenous Brits since the 1950s and beyond. If it wasn't the Irish, it was the West Indians. If it wasn't the West Indians, it was the East African Indians. If it wasn't the East African Indians, it was the Bangladeshis, the Pakistanis, the Poles, the Lithuanians... blah blah blah.

If it wasn't for the immigrants (who, in fact, make up a substantially smaller percentage of the population than immigrants to Switzerland), the United Kingdom would be a dead end nation with tax at 80%, a shrinking population, shops closing at five in the evening and no decent food.

It's a dump anyway, but pretty much anything that's good about it is a result of the contribution of hard working and motivated immigrants.
It "used" to be that way with immigrants...but now host countries are feeling the crunch. It seems they're coming more to take than to give. There was a time when immigrants came to a country and wanted to really integrate and think of themselves as part of that country. Now it's all about handouts in many situations...it's not working anylonger and unfortunately or fortunately countries are starting to clamp down. They just can't take the load anymore. Especially with so many living off of the system..

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Muslims have a reputation of ? Must Muslims are Arabs or Turks or Iranians or Albanians first. The other thing is a myth. Just as Italians are Italians first.


-
You mean a kind of automatism ? Muslim = non-objective ?


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Changing the landscape ? This can be to the better, for instance in regard to restaurants. But what foreigners do in the UK is irrelevant in the Canton of Zurich.
Regardless, people of host countries are getting fed up with immigrants and footing the bill for them. Who cares about eating out at the restaurants? Where does that come in. Many of you forget that what worked before, doesn't necessarily work now. People have to start developing their own countries. Then those from the developed countries can start going over there...LOL. Actually many of the countries that the immigrants come from are not that easy to immigrate to. They allow few foreigners for immigration. I think Japan has it about right..
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  #117  
Old 08.08.2011, 18:25
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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There was a time when immigrants came to a country and wanted to really integrate and think of themselves as part of that country.
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  #118  
Old 08.08.2011, 18:27
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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This may be or not as you say, but is hardly relevant for a vote about limited voting for foreigners in the Canton of Zurich. And the Daily Mail "illustrating" their report by a picture of some strictly veiled Muslim women is outing itself as simply a scandalmonger paper. Here below just some other Arab-origin foreigners in Britain
One of them looks like a drag-queen..but anyways. It doesn't matter where they come from whether Arab etc..IMHO, the British people are getting fed-up. And it's not just the Daily-Mail stating this. It's nothing wrong with acknowledging that and accepting that times change, countries are going broke and they can't take the load any longer.
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  #119  
Old 08.08.2011, 18:28
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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the British people are getting fed-up.
The British people have always been fed up.

Pay attention at the back!
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  #120  
Old 08.08.2011, 18:29
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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The British people have always been fed up.

Pay attention at the back!
Well they're MORE fed up now...LOL
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