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Old 05.08.2011, 13:23
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Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

Friday, 5 August, 2011, 06:30 Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich


Foreigners in the canton of Zurich might get a chance to vote in local elections, if a majority of Swiss voters let them have a say.


A petition with nearly 7,000 signatures was delivered to the cantonal government on Thursday.


The proposal would allow foreigners who have lived at least 10 years in Switzerland and three years in Zurich to vote locally.


Similar proposals fell flat in the cantons of Bern and Basel-City.
But in Lucerne, an initiative and counter-proposal will ultimately head to voters.




http://worldradio.ch/wrs/news/wrsnew...ch.shtml?25856




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Personally, I don't expect to get voting rights in this country, whilst I am a foreigner here.
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Old 05.08.2011, 14:19
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

I would welcome this since I know many foreigners who are more dedicated to the local community than I am myself...
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Old 05.08.2011, 14:34
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

I would have to disagree. Whilst I can accept that there are a host of foreigners that bring many skills and benefit to Switzerland or in this case Zürich specifically, I feel that our cantonal sovereignty will be compromised if they have equal voting rights and I for one, will clearly vote against it given the chance.

I have the opportunity to vote in two other nations, but as I live here, I do not feel it appropriate to impose my beliefs onto people where I chose to move away from.

The fact is that even on Gemeinde level here in Switzerland, we have a two class system because with Einbürgerung votes (allowing foreigners to become Swiss), only the actual town members with Bürgerrecht (meaning hometown or long time locals) are allowed to make the call. I find this grossly unfair to the extreme, as I want my vote to count where I live and pay my taxes.

I presume (fairly obviously) that the initiative to allow foreigners to vote will follow the classic urban/rural split and I don't think that it stands much of a chance in ZH.
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Old 05.08.2011, 14:36
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

So basically, once you qualify for citizenship?.... pointless.

If a foreigner wants to vote then he should be come a citizen if this is the case.
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Old 05.08.2011, 14:50
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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The fact is that even on Gemeinde level here in Switzerland, we have a two class system because with Einbürgerung votes (allowing foreigners to become Swiss), only the actual town members with Bürgerrecht (meaning hometown or long time locals) are allowed to make the call. I find this grossly unfair to the extreme, as I want my vote to count where I live and pay my taxes.
Are you sure your information is up to date? I thought naturalization wasn't allowed to be subject to popular vote any more (I was told that a court had declared the procedure unconstitutional after a nasty case in Luzern or somewhere.)
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Old 05.08.2011, 14:56
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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Similar proposals fell flat in the cantons of Bern and Basel-City.
But in Lucerne, an initiative and counter-proposal will ultimately head to voters. .....

Personally, I don't expect to get voting rights in this country, whilst I am a foreigner here.

Although this seems to focus on the other side of the rosti-gap, we've had foreigner voting rights at the local/commune level in Canton Vaud for about 4-5 years now. Canton Geneve has also followed suit and has something similar. Criteria differ slightly as I recall, but Canton Vd is 10 years living in CH and 3 years in VD.
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Old 05.08.2011, 15:14
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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So basically, once you qualify for citizenship?.... pointless.

If a foreigner wants to vote then he should be come a citizen if this is the case.

If a foreigner pays taxes here then he/she should have the right to vote on what the income is used for.
This is what started the US war of Independence "no taxation without representation"
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Old 05.08.2011, 15:16
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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If a foreigner pays taxes here then he/she should have the right to vote on what the income is used for.
This is what started the US war of Independence "no taxation without representation"
but do all those who pay taxes there really have the right to vote?
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Old 05.08.2011, 15:22
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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Are you sure your information is up to date? I thought naturalization wasn't allowed to be subject to popular vote any more (I was told that a court had declared the procedure unconstitutional after a nasty case in Luzern or somewhere.)
Wikipedia says that it has to be justified if someone is declined, therefore an anonymous vote would be against the constitution.

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Immer wieder wurden Bewerber von der Gemeindeversammlung abgelehnt, weil sie aus einem bestimmten Land stammten. Beispielhaft war der Fall Emmen, bei dem zwölf Italiener eingebürgert wurden, 38 Ex-Jugoslawen und einige Polen aber nicht. Abgewiesene Ausländer klagten dann bis zum Bundesgericht, welches 2003 festhielt,[6] dass bei Einbürgerungen die Bestimmungen der Bundesverfassung wie Willkürverbot, Diskriminierungsverbot und Anspruch auf rechtliches Gehör zu beachten sind. Faktisch bedeutet das, dass jede Ablehnung einer Einbürgerung begründet werden muss.[7] Somit ist die unbegründete, anonyme Stimmabgabe in der Gemeindelegislative in Einbürgerungsfragen verfassungswidrig.
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Old 05.08.2011, 15:38
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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Are you sure your information is up to date? I thought naturalization wasn't allowed to be subject to popular vote any more (I was told that a court had declared the procedure unconstitutional after a nasty case in Luzern or somewhere.)
It was the case here in ZH the last time I bothered going to an Einbürgerung that I can remember. It was crass, a guy from Serbia who had the language figured out and a British couple that were clueless. The (possibly) drunken farmers just raised their hands at the right moment, I'd have never had let the Brits in, one of the pair couldn't even turn up. Arrogant. I've never seen them in town since.


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If a foreigner pays taxes here then he/she should have the right to vote on what the income is used for.
This is what started the US war of Independence "no taxation without representation"
Show me how many other major industrialized nations allow foreigners to vote. Some don't even grant citizenship through birth. The USA is an excellent case in point as what that country decides with their foreign policy affects more citizens outside of their borders than within, what rights do we have to put our opinions forward to DC?
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Old 05.08.2011, 15:39
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

I think its a right that should be extended to foreigners there are issues that directly affect them and they should be allowed to have a say. A good example is the minaret issue. The fact that the construction of minarets are banned wasn't going to affect the christian majority of the country but the 4% who are muslims, a majority of this four percent where not swiss so foreigners and thus had no say it what was happening. THat in my mind is not fair. but also small things like construction of a new road or things like that do affect the foreigners so they should have a say.
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Old 05.08.2011, 15:48
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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It was the case here in ZH the last time I bothered going to an Einbürgerung that I can remember. It was crass, a guy from Serbia who had the language figured out and a British couple that were clueless. The (possibly) drunken farmers just raised their hands at the right moment
Gruesome !!
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Old 05.08.2011, 15:51
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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Show me how many other major industrialized nations allow foreigners to vote.
The UK. Probably all EU countries, but I'm not sure.
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Old 05.08.2011, 16:09
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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The UK. Probably all EU countries, but I'm not sure.
Please wear this cap "Least useful post of the month". Thanks for participating in the debate. Don't call us....
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Old 05.08.2011, 16:10
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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Friday, 5 August, 2011, 06:30 Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich


Foreigners in the canton of Zurich might get a chance to vote in local elections, if a majority of Swiss voters let them have a say.


A petition with nearly 7,000 signatures was delivered to the cantonal government on Thursday.


The proposal would allow foreigners who have lived at least 10 years in Switzerland and three years in Zurich to vote locally.


Similar proposals fell flat in the cantons of Bern and Basel-City.
But in Lucerne, an initiative and counter-proposal will ultimately head to voters.




http://worldradio.ch/wrs/news/wrsnew...ch.shtml?25856




Two hopes... bob hope and no hope! Pick one....


Personally, I don't expect to get voting rights in this country, whilst I am a foreigner here.
No hope
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Old 05.08.2011, 16:14
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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Please wear this cap "Least useful post of the month". Thanks for participating in the debate. Don't call us....
Well in fairness your question is "how many". Who knows how many exactly. But an example is UK, another is NZ, and I am guessing that because the UK allows EU residents to vote in local body elections, then all other EU countries have to do likewise. Someone else can confirm that. Maybe you can??
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Old 05.08.2011, 16:26
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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I would have to disagree. Whilst I can accept that there are a host of foreigners that bring many skills and benefit to Switzerland or in this case Zürich specifically, I feel that our cantonal sovereignty will be compromised if they have equal voting rights and I for one, will clearly vote against it given the chance.

I have the opportunity to vote in two other nations, but as I live here, I do not feel it appropriate to impose my beliefs onto people where I chose to move away from.

The fact is that even on Gemeinde level here in Switzerland, we have a two class system because with Einbürgerung votes (allowing foreigners to become Swiss), only the actual town members with Bürgerrecht (meaning hometown or long time locals) are allowed to make the call. I find this grossly unfair to the extreme, as I want my vote to count where I live and pay my taxes.

I presume (fairly obviously) that the initiative to allow foreigners to vote will follow the classic urban/rural split and I don't think that it stands much of a chance in ZH.
Why do you disagrre and why would you vote against. Surely if people live in the Kanton and pay their tax to it they shold have a right to some sort of say as to how their taxes are spent.
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Old 05.08.2011, 16:37
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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but do all those who pay taxes there really have the right to vote?
Must be time for another war
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Old 05.08.2011, 16:49
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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Why do you disagrre and why would you vote against. Surely if people live in the Kanton and pay their tax to it they shold have a right to some sort of say as to how their taxes are spent.
I disagree because if anyone wants the right to vote then they should first enroll in getting citizenship and then vote by right. Foreigners come and go; some of us are here to stay and want to see long term solutions for not just our own futures, but for those of our kids etc.

If I want to go and live and work somewhere abroad, I'm not going to get the right to vote there any more than I'd expect the principle to apply here. We may all be born equals, but as long as there are borders and structures that work for Switzerland, then I'm all for upholding them. That's why I vote FDP, SVP and GL.
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Old 05.08.2011, 19:34
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Re: Foreigner voting rights proposed in Zurich

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I think its a right that should be extended to foreigners there are issues that directly affect them and they should be allowed to have a say. A good example is the minaret issue. The fact that the construction of minarets are banned wasn't going to affect the christian majority of the country but the 4% who are muslims, a majority of this four percent where not swiss so foreigners and thus had no say it what was happening. THat in my mind is not fair. but also small things like construction of a new road or things like that do affect the foreigners so they should have a say.
Switzerland is christian, the majority rules. The Swiss know that once the door is open for one thing, more will follow. Once there's a minaret on every corner, then it's the right to call for prayer five times a day over a loud speaker. It's enough we have to hear the Swiss bells chiming nearly all day on Sundays. You think foreigners should come in and tell the country what to do? Why should foreigners be allowed to dictate to Switzerland what roads should be built? Once people can come into a country and dictate it's outcome (like what's happening in Britain) it's doomed. Whether you think it's fair or not Switzerland has a right to say no and decide the direction of "their" country. Plus "too many cooks spoil the soup." To many differing cultures, each thinking of "their own" people, and "their" own needs, wanting their "own" laws in their host country doesn't work.
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