Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Swiss politics/news  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #201  
Old 16.02.2012, 12:09
olygirl's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: d' Innerschwiiz
Posts: 7,621
Groaned at 416 Times in 279 Posts
Thanked 17,925 Times in 5,542 Posts
olygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Should religion lessons in public schools be discontinued?

Looking at US politics, religion and state are definitely NOT separated. Religion plays far too important of a role in voting.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank olygirl for this useful post:
  #202  
Old 16.02.2012, 12:09
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,361
Groaned at 340 Times in 276 Posts
Thanked 26,264 Times in 11,001 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Should religion lessons in public schools be discontinued?

Quote:
View Post
These two rather extreme points do not really mix in my opinion. I rather have the state not so perfectly seperated from the church and therefore can the state assure that the teaching in schools is "mainstream" and not extreme as well as not indoctrinating... but that is of course my very European perspective...
That probably comes from the underlying assumption in the US that many people believe the state is somehow inherently evil and so anything the state does it will do badly. In Europe on the other hand people agree the state has errors but in principle think the state means well and are prepared to trust it.
Reply With Quote
  #203  
Old 16.02.2012, 12:54
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 1,983
Groaned at 69 Times in 52 Posts
Thanked 5,074 Times in 1,802 Posts
crazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Should religion lessons in public schools be discontinued?

Quote:
View Post
That probably comes from the underlying assumption in the US that many people believe the state is somehow inherently evil and so anything the state does it will do badly. In Europe on the other hand people agree the state has errors but in principle think the state means well and are prepared to trust it.
it is much easier to blame your government for why you can't afford a Corvette than yourself.
Reply With Quote
  #204  
Old 16.02.2012, 13:32
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: -
Posts: 1,640
Groaned at 26 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 2,932 Times in 1,202 Posts
Russkov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Should religion lessons in public schools be discontinued?

Quote:
View Post
it is much easier to blame your government for why you can't afford a Corvette than yourself.
I'm sure that 99% of American citizens' gripes with their government are a bit more complicated and justified than not being able to buy a Corvette, despite what neo-con "all the poor can pull themselves up by their bootstraps" and "the uninsured deserve to die" propaganda would have you believe. What a dismissive and borderline insulting example.
Reply With Quote
  #205  
Old 16.02.2012, 14:06
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 1,983
Groaned at 69 Times in 52 Posts
Thanked 5,074 Times in 1,802 Posts
crazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Should religion lessons in public schools be discontinued?

Quote:
View Post
I'm sure that 99% of American citizens' gripes with their government are a bit more complicated and justified than not being able to buy a Corvette, despite what neo-con "all the poor can pull themselves up by their bootstraps" and "the uninsured deserve to die" propaganda would have you believe. What a dismissive and borderline insulting example.
the point isn't the Corvette, it's the need to blame others. on this point I tend to share the same view as Mr. Carlin, especially in the States where we have the freedom to elect whomever we want:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efKguI0NFek
Reply With Quote
  #206  
Old 16.02.2012, 15:55
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 22,531
Groaned at 424 Times in 327 Posts
Thanked 17,591 Times in 9,856 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Should religion lessons in public schools be discontinued?

Actually, you don't. Where on earth would you expect Mr. Bloggs, your next door neighbour, to get the sort of money to run a Presidential campaign that costs millions.

At least a next door neighbour in the UK could belong to one of the political parties and rise through the ranks to become Prime Minister on his merits and not on his money.

It's not perfect, but I think it's better than the US system. We Americans like to think we believe in separate church and state, but really. Must say a prayer before starting anything and look at how the religious beliefs influence some of the people voting. I can guarantee that an athetist/agnostic will never be President of the United States no matter how upright and moral they are.
Reply With Quote
  #207  
Old 16.02.2012, 16:47
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,361
Groaned at 340 Times in 276 Posts
Thanked 26,264 Times in 11,001 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Should religion lessons in public schools be discontinued?

Quote:
View Post
Actually, you don't. Where on earth would you expect Mr. Bloggs, your next door neighbour, to get the sort of money to run a Presidential campaign that costs millions.
Was Obama rich before he became president?

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I thought most of his campaign money came from donations.
Reply With Quote
  #208  
Old 16.02.2012, 16:58
MathNut's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Kt. Glarus
Posts: 4,417
Groaned at 34 Times in 32 Posts
Thanked 10,952 Times in 3,253 Posts
MathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Should religion lessons in public schools be discontinued?

Quote:
View Post
I can guarantee that an athetist/agnostic will never be President of the United States
... unless he's prepared to be a cynical so-and-so and assent to whatever absurd proposition his handlers reckon will win him the necessary votes.

Nothing particular to do with America or religion, I'm afraid.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank MathNut for this useful post:
  #209  
Old 16.02.2012, 17:01
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: -
Posts: 1,640
Groaned at 26 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 2,932 Times in 1,202 Posts
Russkov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Should religion lessons in public schools be discontinued?

Quote:
View Post
Was Obama rich before he became president?

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I thought most of his campaign money came from donations.
Yes, and here's the list: http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/co...?cid=N00009638

Which should give you a good idea of who actually runs the US.
Reply With Quote
  #210  
Old 16.02.2012, 23:30
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 1,983
Groaned at 69 Times in 52 Posts
Thanked 5,074 Times in 1,802 Posts
crazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Should religion lessons in public schools be discontinued?

Quote:
View Post
Actually, you don't. Where on earth would you expect Mr. Bloggs, your next door neighbour, to get the sort of money to run a Presidential campaign that costs millions.

At least a next door neighbour in the UK could belong to one of the political parties and rise through the ranks to become Prime Minister on his merits and not on his money.

It's not perfect, but I think it's better than the US system. We Americans like to think we believe in separate church and state, but really. Must say a prayer before starting anything and look at how the religious beliefs influence some of the people voting. I can guarantee that an athetist/agnostic will never be President of the United States no matter how upright and moral they are.
actually, we do. the American voters are the ones who created the current system, and its us who repeatedly refuse to do anything to fix it. if the majority of us gringos truly wanted to fix the current system, we would. which is one of the principal reasons I tune out Americans who whine about our political system.
Reply With Quote
  #211  
Old 16.02.2012, 23:46
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Should religion lessons in public schools be discontinued?

People so often say the Swiss are behind the times, and yet. It is perfectly possible for politicians in CH to be agnostic or atheist- and will have little effect on their position. The prospect of an openly agnostic/atheist US President is unimaginable to the great majority.
Reply With Quote
  #212  
Old 17.02.2012, 13:19
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 22,531
Groaned at 424 Times in 327 Posts
Thanked 17,591 Times in 9,856 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Should religion lessons in public schools be discontinued?

Too true, Odile and they're ahead of everyone else on the democracy side too. Can you imagine what chaos there'd be in the US or UK if they tried to run their political systems from the bottom up like the Swiss do? All that power down at local level and politicians only in Parliament/Congress for a few weeks at a time. They'd all have heart attacks on the spot.

It's not perfect, but way better than any other democracy that's around at the moment. True government of the people, for the people, by the people. Much better than simply voting in a representative or two every few years with no other say in what happens by the man in the street.
Reply With Quote
  #213  
Old 27.03.2012, 10:35
lost_inbroad's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Town or region
Posts: 11,491
Groaned at 655 Times in 417 Posts
Thanked 16,388 Times in 6,379 Posts
lost_inbroad has a reputation beyond reputelost_inbroad has a reputation beyond reputelost_inbroad has a reputation beyond reputelost_inbroad has a reputation beyond reputelost_inbroad has a reputation beyond reputelost_inbroad has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Should religion lessons in public schools be discontinued?

Quote:
View Post
There's an interesting article in 20 Minuten about discontinuing religion lessons in public schools or replacing it as a philosophy instead.

In the poll, most people felt religion lessons are outdated and many people felt it should be taught at home. Some people thought religion could be offered as an after-school course and others felt religion is still necessary for moral purposes.

If religion were discontinued at school, shouldn't Catholic / Protestant public holidays be abolished as well?

If it were left to the parents to teach their children religion, would Switzerland become a religious desert with churches having only a historical purpose or would it lean even more to the right as seen in the USA?

Personally, I like the way it is but realize for many parents, religion is a thorny issue.

Thoughts?

http://www.20min.ch/news/schweiz/sto...aess--18977762
I think they should be discontinued, as christianity is the root of all evil. They might as well teach about Winnie The Pooh.
Reply With Quote
  #214  
Old 27.03.2012, 10:42
Nil's Avatar
Nil Nil is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Basel
Posts: 10,356
Groaned at 428 Times in 333 Posts
Thanked 16,045 Times in 6,322 Posts
Nil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Should religion lessons in public schools be discontinued?

Quote:
View Post
I think they should be discontinued, as christianity is the root of all evil. They might as well teach about Winnie The Pooh.
Wiinie the Pooh and his honey tree? Too sexual.
Reply With Quote
  #215  
Old 27.03.2012, 10:43
lost_inbroad's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Town or region
Posts: 11,491
Groaned at 655 Times in 417 Posts
Thanked 16,388 Times in 6,379 Posts
lost_inbroad has a reputation beyond reputelost_inbroad has a reputation beyond reputelost_inbroad has a reputation beyond reputelost_inbroad has a reputation beyond reputelost_inbroad has a reputation beyond reputelost_inbroad has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Should religion lessons in public schools be discontinued?

Quote:
View Post
Wiinie the Pooh and his honey tree? Too sexual.
..like a catholic priest after choir rehersal?
Reply With Quote
  #216  
Old 27.03.2012, 15:37
MARIPOSA's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Gossau
Posts: 87
Groaned at 2 Times in 1 Post
Thanked 129 Times in 44 Posts
MARIPOSA has no particular reputation at present
Re: Should religion lessons in public schools be discontinued?

As far as I understand, religion is not a compulsory subject in the schools. So its up of each parent to decide if their child takes it or not. My son will take his First Communion next month ( catholic ceremony) and it was his choice to do so. I'm a believer, although I'm not a church goer and my husband has not religion. We baptized my son as catholic in England, mostly because where we used to live, the best school in the area was the Catholic one, and being myself a catholic, we decided to baptize him to enroll him at that school (I know not the best reason to choose a religion, but...) To be honest we don't think any harm was made to him, in fact there were more positive things, they reinforced some feelings about caring, honesty, acceptance, that we as a family agree with. Once here in Switzerland, I was not aware they would give children religion at school, one day we received the invitation for my son to take part in this small group for children from catholic families, my son was very happy to join it and we agreed. Funny enough the person who was in charge of the group was so happy with him, told us my son knew many things from the bible and about Jesus, (she might have thought we were the ones who tought him but he learned everything at the school in England) and he is participating in this activity next month because he wants and we a happy for him to do so...I don't think it is harming him in any way, and I'm sure that if when he is older decides this religion is not for him, we will still support him. I think if we adults would stop looking at religion with so much suspicion, hate or fright, things would be easier for all of us. Religion is there because we human beings want to find answers to some questions .Just being respectful to other people's beliefs and being racional with ours (don't impose them to others or don't judge others for theirs) would make things easier for everybody. So, to resume, yes, I think schools should still teach religion to the children if and when the parents consider this is what they want. Sorry for the long message!!
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank MARIPOSA for this useful post:
  #217  
Old 27.03.2012, 16:11
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: near Bern
Posts: 32
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 28 Times in 15 Posts
CaroMel has earned some respectCaroMel has earned some respect
Re: Should religion lessons in public schools be discontinued?

My children have had bible topics taught to them under NMM. No big deal.
KUW, through the church, are a series of lessons taught in preparation for confirmation. These are not obligatory. My oldest daughter didn't want to go, but the other two children do go.
Reply With Quote
  #218  
Old 27.03.2012, 16:15
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 16,491
Groaned at 579 Times in 454 Posts
Thanked 24,679 Times in 9,935 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Should religion lessons in public schools be discontinued?

Quote:
View Post
As far as I understand, religion is not a compulsory subject in the schools. So its up of each parent to decide if their child takes it or not. My son will take his First Communion next month ( catholic ceremony) and it was his choice to do so. I'm a believer, although I'm not a church goer and my husband has not religion. We baptized my son as catholic in England, mostly because where we used to live, the best school in the area was the Catholic one, and being myself a catholic, we decided to baptize him to enroll him at that school (I know not the best reason to choose a religion, but...) To be honest we don't think any harm was made to him, in fact there were more positive things, they reinforced some feelings about caring, honesty, acceptance, that we as a family agree with. Once here in Switzerland, I was not aware they would give children religion at school, one day we received the invitation for my son to take part in this small group for children from catholic families, my son was very happy to join it and we agreed. Funny enough the person who was in charge of the group was so happy with him, told us my son knew many things from the bible and about Jesus, (she might have thought we were the ones who tought him but he learned everything at the school in England) and he is participating in this activity next month because he wants and we a happy for him to do so...I don't think it is harming him in any way, and I'm sure that if when he is older decides this religion is not for him, we will still support him. I think if we adults would stop looking at religion with so much suspicion, hate or fright, things would be easier for all of us. Religion is there because we human beings want to find answers to some questions .Just being respectful to other people's beliefs and being racional with ours (don't impose them to others or don't judge others for theirs) would make things easier for everybody. So, to resume, yes, I think schools should still teach religion to the children if and when the parents consider this is what they want. Sorry for the long message!!
I think paragraphs are compulsory in a long stream of text.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Tom1234 for this useful post:
  #219  
Old 27.03.2012, 16:36
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Work in ZH, live in SZ
Posts: 12,232
Groaned at 351 Times in 284 Posts
Thanked 23,444 Times in 8,473 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Should religion lessons in public schools be discontinued?

Quote:
View Post
Was Obama rich before he became president?

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I thought most of his campaign money came from donations.
He was rich enought to study at Harvard, just like George W. did. Clinton was at Yale, so was Bush senior... You do not need to come from one of the richest family in the US to become president, but you will need the right connections. You will be part of the wealthy part of society and brought up in a certain way.

That was the point. In most EU countries can an underdog work his way up in the political class, something imho not possible in the US... just look at the current election and the scrutiny each candidate has to go through.
The German government is currently an Eastern German women, a disabled in a wheelchair, an open homosexual and an adopted Asian kid. While I do not really agree to the politics this bunch makes am I happy that this is possible. And I do not think this would be possible in the US based on the way the president and vice president are elected.
Reply With Quote
  #220  
Old 27.03.2012, 18:46
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,361
Groaned at 340 Times in 276 Posts
Thanked 26,264 Times in 11,001 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Should religion lessons in public schools be discontinued?

Quote:
View Post
The German government is currently an Eastern German women, a disabled in a wheelchair, an open homosexual and an adopted Asian kid. While I do not really agree to the politics this bunch makes am I happy that this is possible. And I do not think this would be possible in the US based on the way the president and vice president are elected.
FD Roosevelt was disabled and used a wheelchair.

Furthermore, Schäuble was already a big guy before the attack that put him in a wheelchair. His brother was also a politician so I don't know to what extent he comes from a political dynasty. Westerwelle may be homosexual, but he's still a rich kid who went to all the right schools and made all the right friends (It's the FDP right? Nothing happens there without the right strings). As for Merkel, the fall of the DDR left a political vacuum in which it was possible to rise quite quickly. Now that that vacuum is filled, I doubt that it would be easy for a poor disadvantaged person from the deep East to do the same thing today.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
abolish, lessons, religion, schools




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Swiss Local Schools vs American(!) Public Schools Sleepless Education 29 17.01.2015 19:35
Religion in Schools in Switzerland data Family matters/health 12 18.05.2012 16:07
How to find public schools with English lessons? skirby101 Family matters/health 20 06.09.2010 10:39
public schools in lausanne amaraya Family matters/health 4 10.06.2009 17:22
BOOTS No.7 will be discontinued at Migros Guest Other/general 0 30.10.2007 15:25


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 00:21.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0