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  #41  
Old 19.08.2009, 14:44
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Re: The Swiss immigration system is 'racist'...

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Explain the importance of the "European us sentiment" please?
Don't you think it is better that the countries in Europe have some individuality. Isn't this the reason we get tourists from the USA touring europe to see the different cultures which if the EU had its way we would sort of loose.
I presume you meant - lose.

The regions of the European Union will always be different, have their own customs etc. That is Europe's capital!

The EU has no intention of shooting itself in the foot.


A google on European Integration might bring some light to your darkened room.


Larry
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  #42  
Old 19.08.2009, 14:52
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Re: The Swiss immigration system is 'racist'...

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The regions of the European Union will always be different, have their own customs etc. That is Europe's capital!
Larry
So what is "Europe's Capital" - Brussels?
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  #43  
Old 19.08.2009, 14:54
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So what is "Europe's Capital" - Brussels?
Dear me. Europe's "treasure" if you will.


It's very hot today.


Larry
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  #44  
Old 19.08.2009, 15:00
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Re: The Swiss immigration system is 'racist'...

The swiss have got it just about right in my opinion.
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  #45  
Old 19.08.2009, 15:03
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Re: The Swiss immigration system is 'racist'...

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I have thought of this, I would think it would be anything but mundane. Using your example, look at the pool of quality athletes we could draw on. Would also help the European "us" sentiment.



Larry
Deary me Larry, I feel like I am talking straight to a European Member of Parliament! I think there would be a difference of opinion as to whether it would be better (smaller countries, who would never see one of their "own" athletes in the team might be a bit cheesed, and it would be goodnight to the "European Football Championships" unless we just played Europe A vs Europe B) however the more serious side is still the detachment from reality - people do not want to be one Nation State in the same way Canada and the US don't. You can draw up all the advantages until the cows come home but I don't think borders will be brought down just yet.
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  #46  
Old 19.08.2009, 15:08
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Re: The Swiss immigration system is 'racist'...

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That's an interesting concept. Do any of the Swiss contingent know if this was ever a topic?
It actually already exists at cantonal level in the cantons of Jura and Neuchatel. Foreigners are also entitled to vote at community level in a numer of cantons (Freiburg, Basel, Graubünden etc.).

Foreigners, as you propably know, don't enjoy voting rights at federal level and the chance that this might change some day are very small indeed.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ausl%C3...und_-wahlrecht
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  #47  
Old 19.08.2009, 15:10
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Re: The Swiss immigration system is 'racist'...

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So what would be the best option : giving the passport to the secondos at their birth or if they request it ?
In the UK I believe you automatically receive citizenship at birth if one of your parents is a foreign national but has a residence permit. In any case it would seem like a fair system.
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It amuses however, me to hear Europeans call fellow-Europeans "foreigners".Larry
Why? That’s what it says on my residence permit. I refer to myself as a foreigner due to the fact that I am one.
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Just proves that foreigners don't need Swiss Nationality, there are plenty still in Switzerland despite it "being such a racist place".
I didn’t claim that Switzerland was a racist place. However offering Swiss citizenship to the children of C-Permit holders just seems logical. It’s all well and good stating that a lot of people don’t want it or that people could get it if they want to, but why not automatically give it?
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  #48  
Old 19.08.2009, 15:13
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Re: The Swiss immigration system is 'racist'...

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Deary me Larry, I feel like I am talking straight to a European Member of Parliament! I think there would be a difference of opinion as to whether it would be better (smaller countries, who would never see one of their "own" athletes in the team might be a bit cheesed, and it would be goodnight to the "European Football Championships" unless we just played Europe A vs Europe B) however the more serious side is still the detachment from reality - people do not want to be one Nation State in the same way Canada and the US don't. You can draw up all the advantages until the cows come home but I don't think borders will be brought down just yet.
A good post, Mike.


I am not a MEP, however there a lot of people who do not see things the way you do. However, seeing as there is already a lot of yawing and skew on this topic, I will keep my keyboard depressions on the EU, European integration etc. for a more appropriate topic.



Larry
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  #49  
Old 19.08.2009, 15:14
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Deary me Larry, I feel like I am talking straight to a European Member of Parliament! I think there would be a difference of opinion as to whether it would be better (smaller countries, who would never see one of their "own" athletes in the team might be a bit cheesed, and it would be goodnight to the "European Football Championships" unless we just played Europe A vs Europe B) however the more serious side is still the detachment from reality - people do not want to be one Nation State in the same way Canada and the US don't. You can draw up all the advantages until the cows come home but I don't think borders will be brought down just yet.

The borders are already down.



L.
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  #50  
Old 19.08.2009, 15:23
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Re: The Swiss immigration system is 'racist'...

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The borders are already down.



L.
Depends what you mean by borders..... geographical borders less so, but criminal law borders I believe are still there. But as you correctly say we are derailing an important thread on swiss nutjobs with some blue sky rambling about the EU

Perhaps we can thrash it out another time Larry!
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  #51  
Old 19.08.2009, 15:39
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Re: The Swiss immigration system is 'racist'...

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In the UK I believe you automatically receive citizenship at birth if one of your parents is a foreign national but has a residence permit. In any case it would seem like a fair system.
I have to disagree with this theory. Getting a passport should not be automatic. France changed their rules and did not, IMHO, have real benefit out of it. You get suddenly a large number of bi national who themselves have had time to really feel belonging to any place. While the process of getting the citizenship should be as easy and reasonable as possible, I think it should be voluntary at least to show some interest to integrate.
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  #52  
Old 19.08.2009, 15:51
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Re: The Swiss immigration system is 'racist'...

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I have thought of this, I would think it would be anything but mundane. Using your example, look at the pool of quality athletes we could draw on. Would also help the European "us" sentiment.
Seeing we can't even get a United Kingdom soccer team, I don't think so somehow. We'd rather be ourselves and lose all the time than get together with others and maybe win sometimes.
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  #53  
Old 19.08.2009, 15:56
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Re: The Swiss immigration system is 'racist'...

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Foreigners, as you propably know, don't enjoy voting rights at federal level and the chance that this might change some day are very small indeed.
and why should it?

Isn't the "one man, one vote" idea central to the principle of democracy. Now if a dual citizen could vote in two countries, a triple citizen in three etc, that would undermine the basics of democracy. In fact, many dual and triple citizens are already doing this which is why I don't like that concept. They only want the advantages:I have yet to hear of somebody doing military service in three different countries for example. You should only be naturalised if you fully renounce your previous citizenships and all associated rights.
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  #54  
Old 19.08.2009, 20:24
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Re: The Swiss immigration system is 'racist'...

In discussion such as these, it is often mentioned that 20% of the population of Switzerland are foreigners. Being curious of the ethnicity of the foreign population, I found statistics that 45% of them are from Germany, Italy or France. 22% from the Balkans. 15% from Spain and Portugal. These strike me as European ethnicities, no?

All other ethnicities account for roughly 3.6% of the population. That even includes US and other European foreigners, along with Africans and Asians. My point is that I don't buy the argument that since 20% of the population is foreigner, Switzerland is diverse and tolerant.
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  #55  
Old 19.08.2009, 21:15
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Re: The Swiss immigration system is 'racist'...

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In discussion such as these, it is often mentioned that 20% of the population of Switzerland are foreigners. Being curious of the ethnicity of the foreign population, I found statistics that 45% of them are from Germany, Italy or France. 22% from the Balkans. 15% from Spain and Portugal. These strike me as European ethnicities, no?

All other ethnicities account for roughly 3.6% of the population. That even includes US and other European foreigners, along with Africans and Asians. My point is that I don't buy the argument that since 20% of the population is foreigner, Switzerland is diverse and tolerant.
The 60% makes sense because of the EU treaty with Switzerland for shared employment. 22% of Balkans probably taken in from the troubles, but that would leave 18% of others (US, Russia, Africa, Asians, Aussies etc.) surely?
I don't think Switzerland is bothered if it is tolerant and is trying to protect its independence and I don't blame it when I see what is happening in the UK.
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  #56  
Old 19.08.2009, 21:18
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Re: The Swiss immigration system is 'racist'...

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and why should it?

Isn't the "one man, one vote" idea central to the principle of democracy. Now if a dual citizen could vote in two countries, a triple citizen in three etc, that would undermine the basics of democracy. In fact, many dual and triple citizens are already doing this which is why I don't like that concept. They only want the advantages:I have yet to hear of somebody doing military service in three different countries for example. You should only be naturalised if you fully renounce your previous citizenships and all associated rights.
I think you are right there and I think you should only be able to vote if you are actually resident; not by postal votes.
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  #57  
Old 19.08.2009, 21:27
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Re: The Swiss immigration system is 'racist'...

Having seen what a liberal immigration policy has done for France, the UK, Germany etc, why on earth would Switzerland be like another lemming jumping over the cliff? The British, the French, the Dutch (and to some extent the Italians) are paying the price for their colonial past. The Germans are paying the price for having been bad and, feeling guilty for having been responsible in some way for the way that Russia captured the Eastern bloc, they felt they needed to allow every man and his dog to come to Germany (although that is gradually changing also...a little). It's not as though the Swiss can look at their neighbours and see what a great job everyone has done. Why is it that everyone thinks the Swiss should open up the borders? To show some solidarity with the super-liberals in the rest of Europe? No thanks....things are fine just the way they are.

The situation that those other great pillars of European diversity and democracy have gotten themselves into is really nothing to aspire to....
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Old 19.08.2009, 21:28
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Re: The Swiss immigration system is 'racist'...

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The borders are already down.

L.
That is the problem!

The border is down between the EU (Not EEC) and Switzerland with the treaty.

I cannot believe that these well educated full time politicians cannot see the consequences and repercussions to follow.
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  #59  
Old 19.08.2009, 21:34
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Re: The Swiss immigration system is 'racist'...

I really do not understand the wording of EU citizenship.I know some german citizens, french citizens, spanish citizens but I have not seen any EU citizen up to now.
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Old 19.08.2009, 21:38
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Re: The Swiss immigration system is 'racist'...

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I really do not understand the wording of EU citizenship.I know some german citizens, french citizens, spanish citizens but I have not seen any EU citizen up to now.
Not yet; but if those EU MPs had their way it would be so, and imagine having Tony Blair as the president of the EU.

That is why Switzerland should not have so many treaties with the EU.
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