Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Swiss politics/news  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #81  
Old 26.08.2011, 18:06
colinwheeler's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Gersau
Posts: 998
Groaned at 16 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 872 Times in 440 Posts
colinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Office etiquette: should kisses be banned?

Quote:
View Post
I sense you have a long, bitter history not shared by many others.
Yes, I am English. Okay and I tend to rant.
Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 26.08.2011, 19:54
Chemmie's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 4,144
Groaned at 33 Times in 29 Posts
Thanked 4,951 Times in 2,233 Posts
Chemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Office etiquette: should kisses be banned?

Quote:
View Post
The limits are when as a man you have to climb out of an elevator if you are alone because a woman climbs in. (As per published as advise in American anti-sexual harassment handbooks.)

The limits are when you make your culture so bland to be as politically correct that vanilla is considered too scary a flavour at work as it could be sexually provocative.

The limits are when you can't meet people half way but expect everybody to follow your way because it is the least obtrusive possible thing to do.

The limits are when the Swiss change their culture to put up with American litigious nature and politically correct bull shite!

I agree with all these points, it is not a perfect system by any means. In the american working culture I feel the exact same way (but obviously I comply professionally). The difference comes down to protecting the single possiblity that someone in the 'unlikely' situation, where definite harassement happens, is protected.
Yes, you are right, the litiguous nature of North America produces some questionable byproducts of such general rules, but when/if you are the victim of true sexual harassment, culture, country and corporation are irrelavant, because you have been violated, and the psychological effects of such are not easily fixed with a payoff or settlement. The after-effects can possibly last for years with many further negative side effects to yourself and those around you.
__________________
"You have reached the end of you free trial membership at BenjaminFranklinQuotes.com" -Benjamin Franklin
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 26.08.2011, 20:05
dakman's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NYC (heart is split between Switzerland and the Big Apple)
Posts: 1,872
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 901 Times in 543 Posts
dakman has a reputation beyond reputedakman has a reputation beyond reputedakman has a reputation beyond reputedakman has a reputation beyond reputedakman has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Office etiquette: should kisses be banned?

Quote:
View Post
Because that's how it's defined in North America, and I've worked primarily there for most of my life and that's what I'm used to. If I go back and expect me kissing co-workers to be accepted, I can expect to be cited for sexual harassment, fired and with possible legal consequences.

But culturally kissing friends is not really an American thing. I don't find it so hard to work in American office, we don't go around not trying to offend anyone, it just comes naturally that you do things differently in the office than not in the office. But most of it is obvious, like not telling a female co-worker how attractive they look in a dress. You hear silly rules but it is mostly common sense. Act like you would around your conservative grandparents and you will be okay. And don't make steretypical comments about nationalities, things like that. Just basic common courtesy.

I heard things in Swiss offices that would not be said in an American office. Basically, lockerroom talk is what we would call it. Obviously the legal system is far from perfect here, there are too many lawyers who need to make an income.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank dakman for this useful post:
  #84  
Old 26.08.2011, 20:11
Chemmie's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 4,144
Groaned at 33 Times in 29 Posts
Thanked 4,951 Times in 2,233 Posts
Chemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Office etiquette: should kisses be banned?

Quote:
View Post
But culturally kissing friends is not really an American thing.
Very true--and I understand it is a european thing (although I've met many in Switzerland and in Europe who aren't comfortable with it), my point was just that if a company has the requirements to hire numerous North Americans (or other backgrounds of course), they need to make regulations such that they are receiving the maximum work quality of said employees. If they're all Swiss, or European or are all cool with a big work orgy (yes, this is obviously an exaggeration for poetic emphasis) go for it and prosper!. But if a company needs employees who happen to come with with different beliefs and interpersonal interaction boundaries, they should try their best to respect them and keep the business flowing smoothly.
__________________
"You have reached the end of you free trial membership at BenjaminFranklinQuotes.com" -Benjamin Franklin
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 26.08.2011, 20:12
cricketer's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: near zurich
Posts: 1,196
Groaned at 29 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 1,051 Times in 427 Posts
cricketer has a reputation beyond reputecricketer has a reputation beyond reputecricketer has a reputation beyond reputecricketer has a reputation beyond reputecricketer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Office etiquette: should kisses be banned?

I cant't be bothered to read this thread. I wouldn't kiss any of my office colleagues under any circumstances. end-of.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank cricketer for this useful post:
  #86  
Old 26.08.2011, 20:20
Caviarchips's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Basel Stadt
Posts: 3,979
Groaned at 99 Times in 77 Posts
Thanked 6,677 Times in 2,388 Posts
Caviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Office etiquette: should kisses be banned?

We aren't doing a particularly good job of ignoring threads generated by The Local, are we?? I think it won't stop if we respond so enthusiastically!
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Caviarchips for this useful post:
  #87  
Old 26.08.2011, 20:22
dakman's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NYC (heart is split between Switzerland and the Big Apple)
Posts: 1,872
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 901 Times in 543 Posts
dakman has a reputation beyond reputedakman has a reputation beyond reputedakman has a reputation beyond reputedakman has a reputation beyond reputedakman has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Office etiquette: should kisses be banned?

I don't have a problem with other people greeting each other however they see fit in the workplace. I am not clear why an NAer would be uncomfortable with that, if they don't want to participate that is fine.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank dakman for this useful post:
  #88  
Old 26.08.2011, 20:23
Chemmie's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 4,144
Groaned at 33 Times in 29 Posts
Thanked 4,951 Times in 2,233 Posts
Chemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Office etiquette: should kisses be banned?

Quote:
View Post
We aren't doing a particularly good job of ignoring threads generated by The Local, are we?? I think it won't stop if we respond so enthusiastically!

5 pages isn't close to enough !!

My placebo (homeopathy ) thread went a good 14 pages AND Godwin status, all with circular, redudant arguements
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 26.08.2011, 20:29
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Geneva
Posts: 5,514
Groaned at 123 Times in 108 Posts
Thanked 3,297 Times in 1,737 Posts
Shorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Office etiquette: should kisses be banned?

Quote:
View Post
Well yeah, there's a bottom line, there's standard rules to be applied. There are pros and cons of each decision. You make the rule on the side of the excess pros. That's how responsible, logical and successful decisions are made.
Hahahaha! So what excess pros does excess PC foster and encourage? The decision has only one pro as far as those who signed it are concerned - fear of litigation. If you really think US companies do it to keep the employees happy, keeping a account of "excess pros" and that it is a "responsible, logical and successful decision" then obviously you haven't been much on the decision-making side so far.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Shorrick Mk2 for this useful post:
  #90  
Old 26.08.2011, 20:35
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 31,796
Groaned at 2,371 Times in 1,725 Posts
Thanked 38,765 Times in 18,265 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Office etiquette: should kisses be banned?

Quote:
View Post
if a company has the requirements to hire numerous North Americans (or other backgrounds of course), they need to make regulations such that they are receiving the maximum work quality of said employees. If they're all Swiss, or European or are all cool with a big work orgy (yes, this is obviously an exaggeration for poetic emphasis) go for it and prosper!. But if a company needs employees who happen to come with with different beliefs and interpersonal interaction boundaries, they should try their best to respect them and keep the business flowing smoothly.
Alas, the last time I worked for a company that had more than one person of North American descent (i.e. ME), it was in NA!

Tom

P.S. Legally speaking, I am a Swiss of North-American descent!
Reply With Quote
  #91  
Old 26.08.2011, 20:40
Chemmie's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 4,144
Groaned at 33 Times in 29 Posts
Thanked 4,951 Times in 2,233 Posts
Chemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Office etiquette: should kisses be banned?

Quote:
View Post
Hahahaha! So what excess pros does excess PC foster and encourage? The decision has only one pro as far as those who signed it are concerned - fear of litigation. If you really think US companies do it to keep the employees happy, keeping a account of "excess pros" and that it is a "responsible, logical and successful decision" then obviously you haven't been much on the decision-making side so far.

Litigation is a very serious con. As I mentioned it's a comparison of pros and cons. Yes, the pros are not huge but relative to ruining a person's live coupled with litigation, it's a no brainer.

Successful companies in the US and world wide, follow such ideology, just because media hounds like to sensationalize poor corporate decisions, doesn't mean that the entire corporate world is the same. It just feeds the fools who read the generic media and build regional generalizations from such garbage. I've been on the decision making-side for well over a decade now, and the companies I've worked with have all prospered regardless of competition or 'financial crisis/recession' simply by making logical decisions base on best overall outcome. It's really not my fault that I associate and work with people and companies who can reach their bottom line goals without victimizing others....you would probably have heard of them, but again, that doesn't make good media headlines. Respect for others and success are not mutually exclusive.
__________________
"You have reached the end of you free trial membership at BenjaminFranklinQuotes.com" -Benjamin Franklin
Reply With Quote
  #92  
Old 26.08.2011, 20:45
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Office etiquette: should kisses be banned?

Quote:
View Post
Litigation is a very serious con.
I think that gave rise to the "Caution - contents hot" warnings on McD's apple pies and other bleedin' obvious advice, didn't it..?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #93  
Old 26.08.2011, 20:45
mirfield's Avatar
Moddy Wellies
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 8,686
Groaned at 53 Times in 47 Posts
Thanked 9,667 Times in 3,566 Posts
mirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Office etiquette: should kisses be banned?

Quote:
View Post
Legally speaking, I am a Swiss of North-American descent!
So boring, yet over-excitable?
Reply With Quote
  #94  
Old 26.08.2011, 20:53
Chemmie's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 4,144
Groaned at 33 Times in 29 Posts
Thanked 4,951 Times in 2,233 Posts
Chemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Office etiquette: should kisses be banned?

Quote:
View Post
Alas, the last time I worked for a company that had more than one person of North American descent (i.e. ME), it was in NA!

Tom

P.S. Legally speaking, I am a Swiss of North-American descent!

I'm also Swiss of North American Decent. Where I work now, there are very few Swiss (albeit extremely intelligent ones).

The 'NA' rules of 'sexual harrassment' definitely don't apply here at the same extreme level--but definitely moving in that direction year by year. Things do seem fine---but the rares issues that these extreme rules protect are very often hidden. Perhaps contributing to the higher sucide rates I hear about here.
Reply With Quote
  #95  
Old 26.08.2011, 21:14
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 31,796
Groaned at 2,371 Times in 1,725 Posts
Thanked 38,765 Times in 18,265 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Office etiquette: should kisses be banned?

Quote:
View Post
So boring, yet over-excitable?
I have six motorcycles than can exceed the Swiss speed limit in first gear!

If I were excitable, I wouldn't have a license!

Tom
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #96  
Old 26.08.2011, 21:16
Upthehatters2008's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: In the kitchen at parties.
Posts: 4,540
Groaned at 204 Times in 120 Posts
Thanked 6,078 Times in 2,378 Posts
Upthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Office etiquette: should kisses be banned?

Quote:
View Post
I have six motorcycles than can exceed the Swiss speed limit in first gear!

If I were excitable, I wouldn't have a license!

Tom
I fell over the other day, and exceeded the Swiss speed limit...
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank Upthehatters2008 for this useful post:
  #97  
Old 26.08.2011, 21:18
cog's Avatar
cog cog is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Currently in Haiti
Posts: 136
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 27 Times in 15 Posts
cog has earned some respectcog has earned some respect
Re: Office etiquette: should kisses be banned?

dunno about everyone, but i personally like the 3 swiss kisses on the cheeks. fewer germs than handshakes <---something i learned in haiti during the height of the cholera epidemic.
Reply With Quote
  #98  
Old 26.08.2011, 22:58
Sky's Avatar
Sky Sky is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Somewhere special far away
Posts: 4,236
Groaned at 62 Times in 45 Posts
Thanked 6,808 Times in 2,542 Posts
Sky has a reputation beyond reputeSky has a reputation beyond reputeSky has a reputation beyond reputeSky has a reputation beyond reputeSky has a reputation beyond reputeSky has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Office etiquette: should kisses be banned?

The French just kiss the air.. no germs there.

Quote:
View Post
So boring, yet over-excitable?
So people of NA descent are boring and over-excitable ?
How many have you met ?

Quote:
View Post
Hell, the largest group is from a kissing-country (Italy)!
People from stuck-up NA are definitely the minority (in fact, in 25 years I've never worked with one ).
Tom, if you've haven't met any like yourself (Swiss of NA descent) you don't get out much.. There's lots of us


Anyway.... the European way is so much better. The attention and appreciation, the chivalry, the polite consideration for women. In the US, holding the door disappeared with Grandpa, as for a warm 2-kiss hello, it's just unheard of !

Now everybody in the NA seem to hug.... which seems quite strange to me. It's rather new isn't it ?
__________________
.
"Il mondo fatto a scale, chi le scende e chi le sale"
Reply With Quote
  #99  
Old 26.08.2011, 23:23
MusicChick's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 17,489
Groaned at 414 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 20,428 Times in 10,577 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Office etiquette: should kisses be banned?

I don't mind the pseudo hugs, I really prefer a nice, professional and strong hand shake..but I dislike the pseudo kisses. Hugs and handshakes are for everybody, but only chicks get bothered with the pseudo kisses. It's too long, and...well, pseudo

Nose rubbing, much more interesting.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank MusicChick for this useful post:
  #100  
Old 26.08.2011, 23:26
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 31,796
Groaned at 2,371 Times in 1,725 Posts
Thanked 38,765 Times in 18,265 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Office etiquette: should kisses be banned?

Quote:
View Post
I fell over the other day, and exceeded the Swiss speed limit...
Try that in Valcolla, guarantee your knee-pucks will be worn out before you can hit 80 kph in most corners!

Tom
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT +2. The time now is 15:46.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0