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  #141  
Old 29.08.2011, 14:30
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Re: Office etiquette: should kisses be banned?

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Certain rules of conduct need to put in place if your country can't seem to find enough workers from your own culture.
Why?

I don't see the need for incessent rule making, policy making and law making.

Surely it is best that the culture of the location of the office is followed? That is the culture that is going to be on the street around the office. Why does there have to be a different culture at work and on the street or in public?

I don't treat my friends, family, shop assistant, bank manager or co-workers with any less respect than anybody else....do you?
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  #142  
Old 29.08.2011, 14:31
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Re: Office etiquette: should kisses be banned?

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I would......
Would what?
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  #143  
Old 29.08.2011, 14:37
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Re: Office etiquette: should kisses be banned?

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....Surely it is best that the culture of the location of the office is followed? That is the culture that is going to be on the street around the office. Why does there have to be a different culture at work and on the street or in public?....

Seriously?

you think people should conduct themselves the sameway on the streets as in the office?

I drink beer happily on the streets. If I did that at work, a good part of Zurich would be in danger.
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  #144  
Old 29.08.2011, 14:55
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Re: Office etiquette: should kisses be banned?

I have a former co-worker who was always on Face-Book.... All of the other people in the office were on it too and had him as an online friend.

People started to notice that he would get really REEEAAALLLLYYYYY nasty stuff from his gal pals online (mainly women he met at the bar the weekend before).

They would post stuff on his wall (he has perhaps 1000 friends) like: Why dont you f__k me in the A__ with your big black C___K.....

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?s...00001974784521

Literally it would be EVERY DAY and it would be multiple women. He was eventually fired for "distracting co-workers" as it was the part of the morning work load to check his homepage on face-book.

Some of the really bad ones were kept for " training purposes" when new employees ask "why cant we have face-book pages?"

Office etiquette can be on many different levels. It should all revolve around keeping your personal life private though.
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  #145  
Old 29.08.2011, 15:01
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Re: Office etiquette: should kisses be banned?

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I drink beer happily on the streets. If I did that at work, a good part of Zurich would be in danger.
We have beer in the office as do most Swiss company canteens. The consequence of behaving like a larger lout at work is that you get fired. The consquences of behaving like a larger lout on the streets is that you could get arrested, thrown out of the place you are in or run over by a tram (realistic Swiss scenario). But really, sorry, beer is not the issue of discussion, is it? Respect, traditions and culture are. Keep in mind that in Russia you would not be allowed to get down to serious business before having a shot of vodka.

Yes, I think that you should behave with a very similar amount of respect in and out of the office. My office is a fun environment. I dress differently when I am working in the office than I do for formal meetings or client visits, just as I dress differently depending on where I am going in my private life.

I still don't see why we need all of these rules to make ensure, guarentee, promise and legislate that nobody from a different culture is offended by what may happen at work that is part of a everyday culture where the office is based.

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They would post stuff on his wall (he has perhaps 1000 friends) like: Why dont you f__k me in the A__ with your big black C___K.....
Wow!!!!! Where is the culture in the world where that is acceptable?

Can you tell me why we do??? What benefit do they bring other than catering to the fact that somebody does not want to adopt local customs and fit in with the people that choose to live and work with?
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  #146  
Old 29.08.2011, 15:09
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Re: Office etiquette: should kisses be banned?

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Some of the really bad ones were kept for " training purposes" when new employees ask "why cant we have face-book pages?"

Office etiquette can be on many different levels. It should all revolve around keeping your personal life private though.
But E F is OK?

There is a new law on the U S which bans teachers from having facebook contact with students. I decided to do that myself before the law.
But back on topic, research shows that it pays career wise to follow office etiquette, even copying your boss, unless you have enough influence to instigate change
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  #147  
Old 29.08.2011, 15:09
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Re: Office etiquette: should kisses be banned?

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Wow!!!!! Where is the culture in the world where that is acceptable?

Can you tell me why we do??? What benefit do they bring other than catering to the fact that somebody does not want to adopt local customs and fit in with the people that choose to live and work with?
He was offended that the boss didnt like it! He was very mad. But he is from Belgium and said that it was normal there? Of course this was when I was working in London and the English have a different opinion of whats acceptable. He is now gainfully employed at an Italian firm According to his cousin (who runs our office in Goma) he is still at it with the ladies.
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  #148  
Old 29.08.2011, 15:12
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Re: Office etiquette: should kisses be banned?

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But E F is OK?
He's not on ef... Im basically retired to be honest. I work for my former employer when I feel like it. I have a couple offices with no co-workers. So I use EF from time to time to kill the silence
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  #149  
Old 29.08.2011, 15:17
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Re: Office etiquette: should kisses be banned?

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There is a new law on the U S which bans teachers from having facebook contact with students.
There are significant efforts to overturn the states where that law has been implimented as it is seen as creating artificial barriers between students and teachers and does not help the situation at all. Just another example of legaslative madness winning out over common sense, common decency and society have expectations about how our neighbours behave.

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He was offended that the boss didnt like it! He was very mad. But he is from Belgium and said that it was normal there? Of course this was when I was working in London and the English have a different opinion of whats acceptable. He is now gainfully employed at an Italian firm According to his cousin (who runs our office in Goma) he is still at it with the ladies.
He was offended? Fair enough surely if the people at the office were offended they should have unfriended him. I do that to anybody who consistantly posts religious stuff that winds me up.

The point is that I would not behave like that on my facebook page anyway because I have friends and family that it would offend. There is an air gap between my two lives but that is generally because I don't want to misrepresent my company in my own opinions, not because I am embarressed or having anything to hide from the public or work.

Nobody has been able to explain to yet why we should create rules or change behaviour that may in some silly way offend a minority.

I find over legislation, too many rules and gross stupidity offensive. I don't see people changing that for me anytime soon and thusly moved to Switzerland where I tend to find less of those things.
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  #150  
Old 29.08.2011, 15:25
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Re: Office etiquette: should kisses be banned?

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I find over legislation, too many rules and gross stupidity offensive. I don't see people changing that for me anytime soon and thusly moved to Switzerland where I tend to find less of those things.
But I think its just self control. I dont want to see people in the street kisses, let alone the office. People need self control or else the government will try to control it.
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  #151  
Old 29.08.2011, 15:28
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Re: Office etiquette: should kisses be banned?

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But I think its just self control. I dont want to see people in the street kisses, let alone the office. People need self control or else the government will try to control it.
What is wrong with people kissing? I think you would find that you are in a very small minority of people that are offended by other people kissing, be it on the streets, at work or at home. I very much doubt that the people of this country are ever going to have a referendum where banning kissing got passed.

Please remember that the government in this country do not get to arbitarily create all sorts of controls. Those are put in place by the people or got rid of by the people.
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  #152  
Old 29.08.2011, 15:59
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Re: Office etiquette: should kisses be banned?

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What is wrong with people kissing? I think you would find that you are in a very small minority of people that are offended by other people kissing, be it on the streets, at work or at home. I very much doubt that the people of this country are ever going to have a referendum where banning kissing got passed.

Please remember that the government in this country do not get to arbitarily create all sorts of controls. Those are put in place by the people or got rid of by the people.

Nothing wrong with people kissing---although it might make some uncomfortable.

But regardless of how one feels about it, generally it's on a different personal level than a handshake--for many, this can be an invasion of personal space...same with handshaking, but not as extreme.
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  #153  
Old 29.08.2011, 16:04
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Re: Office etiquette: should kisses be banned?

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For culture in the country--do as the country wants. No issues there.

I'm considering in an international workplace, which has to cater to various foreign workers with different cultural expectations. Certain rules of conduct need to put in place if your country can't seem to find enough workers from your own culture.
Again the "workplace has to cater" utopia. I can tell you exactly what "the international workplace" will tell you - you don't like it, bugger off. Most of Europe doesn't care one way or the other about the kissing thing - you shouldn't be too hard to replace.
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  #154  
Old 29.08.2011, 16:09
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Re: Office etiquette: should kisses be banned?

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Again the "workplace has to cater" utopia. I can tell you exactly what "the international workplace" will tell you - you don't like it, bugger off. Most of Europe doesn't care one way or the other about the kissing thing - you shouldn't be too hard to replace.

Well apparently if they're hiring non-swiss non-eu employees, it hasn't been the easiest position to fill.

A responsible workplace should cater (yes, most don't), if they keep their workers happy, they will get better work out of them--not all employers follow such idealogy, but the ones who implement it properly are usually very successful.
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  #155  
Old 29.08.2011, 16:09
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Re: Office etiquette: should kisses be banned?

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But regardless of how one feels about it, generally it's on a different personal level than a handshake--for many, this can be an invasion of personal space...same with handshaking, but not as extreme.
AAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH

The whole point that I am trying to make here is that kissing on the cheek here is not on a different level than shaking a hand to the majority. Just because it is different for you does not mean that it is different for everybody else, and what I am asking is why should we make laws or rules to suit a minority's view that something is different when the majority don't think it is???

Put it to a referendum....but I doubt you will be able to gather the already very small number of signatures to get the ball rolling on this one.....although you might actually improve people's humour as I think most of the folks you ask on the street will have a good laugh when you put this one to them.
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  #156  
Old 29.08.2011, 16:12
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Re: Office etiquette: should kisses be banned?

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AAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH

The whole point that I am trying to make here is that kissing on the cheek here is not on a different level than shaking a hand to the majority.......

This is where I dissagree.

If one were to walk into a playground and greet a child with the 3 'air kiss' how will people react? If one did the same with a handshake, would it get the same reaction?

As comfortable as most seem to claim with the kissing----there's no denying that it lies in a higher level of personal interaction than a handshake.
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  #157  
Old 29.08.2011, 16:27
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Re: Office etiquette: should kisses be banned?

...meanwhile, what are the norms for exchanging pleasantries in EF gatherings? is there a secret handshake? kissing, touching, licking, ...?
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  #158  
Old 29.08.2011, 17:17
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Re: Office etiquette: should kisses be banned?

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If one were to walk into a playground and greet a child with the 3 'air kiss' how will people react? If one did the same with a handshake, would it get the same reaction?
Co-worker's 3 year old comes bounding into the office the other day. Here I am a total stranger in a new office. Kid runs up and presents cheek for a kiss. I am like, uuuuuuuuuuuuummmm what the hell does cute kid want. Father grins at me and shows, give him a kiss on the cheek, it is the French way.

Kid is happy as Larry afterwards, father smiles, I smile....I think I made a friend (the kid that is)

Anyway, stop trying to wriggle out of this one. Not much formal work action going on at the playground and a hell of a lot more fart jokes, at least that is what my office is like. At the same time I think we were talking about the work place which is somewhere that other than the above situation that I don't often have to interact with anybody who is not considdered of the conenting adult age and can make thier own decisions about kiss or shake...
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  #159  
Old 29.08.2011, 17:18
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Re: Office etiquette: should kisses be banned?

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...meanwhile, what are the norms for exchanging pleasantries in EF gatherings? is there a secret handshake? kissing, touching, licking, ...?
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Old 29.08.2011, 17:49
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Re: Office etiquette: should kisses be banned?

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....At the same time I think we were talking about the work place which is somewhere that other than the above situation that I don't often have to interact with anybody who is not considdered of the conenting adult age and can make thier own decisions about kiss or shake...

Good point. I would like to think the same---unfortunately I hear far too many stories here of new female workers who feel obligated to partake in these rituals and are extremely uncomfortable just before, during and after.

I don't have the same uncomfort level as they do, but I try to take a bit of empathy and try to imagine a work setting where my boundaries were over-stepped. For sake of arguement, it would be very extreme, but if it still bothered me weeks after, I would hope my employers would takes steps to improve the situation.
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