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  #21  
Old 31.08.2011, 23:48
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Re: Swiss divided over maternity leave upgrade

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they are not just off for a few months though. for many women, the childcare problems and school hours make it pretty much impossible to work for many years - there are several threads about it here on EF as well.
There are plenty of mum's working in full and part-time positions that don't find it a problem. There's kinderkrippe that are open all day and for school there are supervised lunches (Mittagtisch) and after school care at an Ort. I work with a few mums, one who commutes from Zurich and another from Luzern. There are many mums who need to work and just get on with it.

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  #22  
Old 01.09.2011, 06:24
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Re: Swiss divided over maternity leave upgrade

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There are plenty of mum's working in full and part-time positions that don't find it a problem. There's kinderkrippe that are open all day and for school there are supervised lunches (Mittagtisch) and after school care at an Ort. I work with a few mums, one who commutes from Zurich and another from Luzern. There are many mums who need to work and just get on with it.
This is not strictly true. In our area, for example, there is NO Krippe, and we can't go to surrounding ones because they give priority to their own residents. Add the waiting list to the priority list, to the extra fees for not being resident and you need to be a banker to make it work. School supervision offers 10 places for the entire community and costs 80 sfr per day. Have one child in school, and another in Krippe, and you're paying 230 sfr per day for child care.
IMO it doesn't matter how much you need to work. It matters how high level your job is, how wealthy the area you live in is, etc. I know several women who need to work in our area. They can't afford to have children, and don't have any.
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Old 01.09.2011, 07:50
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Re: Swiss divided over maternity leave upgrade

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While absence is absence for an employer, obviously, being home due to being incapacitated through labor and all, and taking a few weeks off every year to go shooting and boot camping is incomparable.
I think the point being made was that the employer needs to replace the staff in both cases. At the end of the day if you're missing from work than you're missing from work whatever the reason.
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Old 01.09.2011, 08:42
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Re: Swiss divided over maternity leave upgrade

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This is not strictly true. In our area, for example, there is NO Krippe, and we can't go to surrounding ones because they give priority to their own residents. Add the waiting list to the priority list, to the extra fees for not being resident and you need to be a banker to make it work. School supervision offers 10 places for the entire community and costs 80 sfr per day. Have one child in school, and another in Krippe, and you're paying 230 sfr per day for child care.
IMO it doesn't matter how much you need to work. It matters how high level your job is, how wealthy the area you live in is, etc. I know several women who need to work in our area. They can't afford to have children, and don't have any.
Wait..shock...you could move to where there is a kinderkrippe and more after school places. A colleague that has no choice but to work moved recently so her son could easily walk home from school. She was widowed with a 2 year old.

I was the only earner when my second child was born. I applied for a kinderkrippe place well in advance and had to change my son's kinderkrippe to a different town. I'm not a banker, yet it works. I always knew we would have to pay child care costs living away from our family and child care is our biggest expense.
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Old 01.09.2011, 09:04
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Re: Swiss divided over maternity leave upgrade

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Wait..shock...you could move to where there is a kinderkrippe and more after school places. A colleague that has no choice but to work moved recently so her son could easily walk home from school. She was widowed with a 2 year old.

I was the only earner when my second child was born. I applied for a kinderkrippe place well in advance and had to change my son's kinderkrippe to a different town. I'm not a banker, yet it works. I always knew we would have to pay child care costs living away from our family and child care is our biggest expense.
But it is an immense challenge, especially for folks just relocating and struggling to figure out how it all works.

What do you do for child share for the kids old enough to be at school, but not old enough to be alone, over the school holidays?
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Old 01.09.2011, 09:20
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Re: Swiss divided over maternity leave upgrade

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This is not strictly true. In our area, for example, there is NO Krippe, and we can't go to surrounding ones because they give priority to their own residents. Add the waiting list to the priority list, to the extra fees for not being resident and you need to be a banker to make it work. School supervision offers 10 places for the entire community and costs 80 sfr per day. Have one child in school, and another in Krippe, and you're paying 230 sfr per day for child care.
IMO it doesn't matter how much you need to work. It matters how high level your job is, how wealthy the area you live in is, etc. I know several women who need to work in our area. They can't afford to have children, and don't have any.
On the subject of daycare, i.e. pre-school Krippe, the alternative (which I know many mums do, myself included) was to find a daycare near to where you work. You don't need one just round the corner from where you live - it's actually better having one round the corner from your office.

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What do you do for child share for the kids old enough to be at school, but not old enough to be alone, over the school holidays?
We just signed up for "Ferienhort" holiday care for the October half term. Apparently they do all sorts of stuff; go on outings, try out new activities, etc.
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Old 01.09.2011, 09:24
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Re: Swiss divided over maternity leave upgrade

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Wait..shock...you could move to where there is a kinderkrippe and more after school places. A colleague that has no choice but to work moved recently so her son could easily walk home from school. She was widowed with a 2 year old.

I was the only earner when my second child was born. I applied for a kinderkrippe place well in advance and had to change my son's kinderkrippe to a different town. I'm not a banker, yet it works. I always knew we would have to pay child care costs living away from our family and child care is our biggest expense.
When I say someone can't afford 230 sfr per day in child care, or 130-50 for one baby, I'm talking about women who earn less than that and would lose money by working and paying for child care. The same women may find it difficult to move to an area with more services, and thus higher rent.
That is why I say they don't have children because they need to work. I appreciate your demographic, but not all women in Switzerland have the same mobility as others.
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Old 01.09.2011, 09:25
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Re: Swiss divided over maternity leave upgrade

I work for a Dutch organisation and they give the husbands / partners with Kids Daddy Days, I am not sure whether this is one day off per week or one day off per two weeks. How about introducing that in Switzerland
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Old 01.09.2011, 09:30
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Re: Swiss divided over maternity leave upgrade

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But it is an immense challenge, especially for folks just relocating and struggling to figure out how it all works.

What do you do for child share for the kids old enough to be at school, but not old enough to be alone, over the school holidays?
There are many holiday camps that take the kids all day. My son spent 1 week on a farm where they had activites every day. One day they dug up potatoes, washed them, made potato stamps and pictures with them and the kids all had some potatoes to bring home for dinner - he loved that. The farm also did daily horse riding, as it was usually just a horse riding place that offered holiday camps. CHF 80 a day including horseriding is a bargain IMO. The geminde or school would be the places to ask about what your area has during the holidays. Look in the local paper or just use Google.
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Old 01.09.2011, 11:09
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Re: Swiss divided over maternity leave upgrade

the best way to promote female equality in the workplace is to enforce mandatory equal maternity and paternity leave so that both husband and wife MUST leave work for a certain period when the baby is due.

then there's no reason to favour men over women in the workplace (except that men are more awesome).
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Old 01.09.2011, 12:30
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Re: Swiss divided over maternity leave upgrade

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Wait..shock...you could move to where there is a kinderkrippe and more after school places.
The commune does not even know how many they will have free for next year, how should parents then know where to move to (it's not easy to terminate all contracts, like work contract, renting, etc.) in order to find that specific area with enough child care places, and a few years ahead since the lists are often 2-3 years long, and when you enter, there are hundres ahead of you (who will me moved up quicker, since they work in the commune/or are single/or have low income). Flexibility means different things, to locals, to new comers, to different communes, etc.

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I was the only earner when my second child was born. I applied for a kinderkrippe place well in advance and had to change my son's kinderkrippe to a different town. I'm not a banker, yet it works. I always knew we would have to pay child care costs living away from our family and child care is our biggest expense.
If you happen to be a sole earner with 2 parent family (extra sets of hands for pick ups or chaufering kids to their day cares, or sitting, even), or owning your own place, that will also make things easier, or should people have their families near, without necessarily having to be a banker.

Sometimes things work, sometimes they do not, and not because people do not plan well, but because they may have been here only shortly or they happen to decide to have kids without giving themselves enough time to match the day care years long waiting lists. The day care situ in my opinion in this country is penalizing moms.
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Old 01.09.2011, 12:43
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Re: Swiss divided over maternity leave upgrade

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The commune does not even know how many they will have free for next year, how should parents then know where to move to (it's not easy to terminate all contracts, like work contract, renting, etc.) in order to find that specific area with enough child care places, and a few years ahead since the lists are often 2-3 years long, and when you enter, there are hundres ahead of you (who will me moved up quicker, since they work in the commune/or are single/or have low income). Flexibility means different things, to locals, to new comers, to different communes, etc.
It must be different conditions in different cantons - here in Zurich city, any child in state school has a place at a lunchtime and afternoon care and holiday coverage.
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Old 01.09.2011, 12:58
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Re: Swiss divided over maternity leave upgrade

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It must be different conditions in different cantons - here in Zurich city, any child in state school has a place at a lunchtime and afternoon care and holiday coverage.
Are you sure? My understanding was that Gemeinde has to offer a Hort, not guarantee a place for all children.
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Old 01.09.2011, 13:01
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Re: Swiss divided over maternity leave upgrade

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It must be different conditions in different cantons - here in Zurich city, any child in state school has a place at a lunchtime and afternoon care and holiday coverage.
Absolutely, that was my point. Not all conditions are the same here, and not all people can flock together in that particularly user friendly ZU commune (I want, haha, for sure). Conditions are not only different in cantons, but from a part of town to another part of town. Moving might be a solution, but when a family is busy keeping a job and figuring out the expenses, contract that have super long cancelling periods, it gets tricky. I have a feeling it will become similar in many regions, in order to promote mobility and keep unemployments rates down, but it just takes time. And, people without family and network have it the hardest.
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Old 01.09.2011, 13:02
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Re: Swiss divided over maternity leave upgrade

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Wait..shock...you could move to where there is a kinderkrippe and more after school places. A colleague that has no choice but to work moved recently so her son could easily walk home from school. She was widowed with a 2 year old.

I was the only earner when my second child was born. I applied for a kinderkrippe place well in advance and had to change my son's kinderkrippe to a different town. I'm not a banker, yet it works. I always knew we would have to pay child care costs living away from our family and child care is our biggest expense.
I also applied for a spot in Krippe well ahead of my second daughter's birth. I applied BEFORE I went to the doctor (I was all of 6 weeks pregs). I also had priority as a woman working 100% at the ETH (it's the ETH krippe) with a husband working 100% at the ETH and a child already attending the same krippe 100%.

I got a full-time spot for dear daughter...when she turned 1 year old.

So, yeah, it works, but it isn't easy!
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Old 01.09.2011, 13:04
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Re: Swiss divided over maternity leave upgrade

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Are you sure? My understanding was that Gemeinde has to offer a Hort, not guarantee a place for all children.
Depends where you are. This is Zurich city I am referring to.

It doesn't apply to the whole canton, however, hence the reason we are NOT moving from our place at any price...
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  #37  
Old 01.09.2011, 13:34
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Re: Swiss divided over maternity leave upgrade

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the best way to promote female equality in the workplace is to enforce mandatory equal maternity and paternity leave so that both husband and wife MUST leave work for a certain period when the baby is due.

then there's no reason to favour men over women in the workplace (except that men are more awesome).
Well, I WAS going to thank you on your post.....until that last bit

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Old 01.09.2011, 13:36
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Re: Swiss divided over maternity leave upgrade

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Depends where you are. This is Zurich city I am referring to.

It doesn't apply to the whole canton, however, hence the reason we are NOT moving from our place at any price...
That's a relief-I guess I'm not moving out into the country either!
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