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  #181  
Old 20.10.2011, 08:56
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

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Sweden is a good comparison I think, it too is broadly open to asylum seekers and too has a far right issue (as has norway!!!). But in Sweden the far right are openly Nazi, which also reduced their broader appeal. Here, like in France and Austria, the far right have a more accessible image. T
The swedish "Sweden democrats" are NOT openly "nazi's", even though some of them had some very suspicious past, their agenda and their way of simplify things is very similar to the SVP, luckily they only got about 5.7% (and not 30% like SVP here) of the votes in the last election, which of course is very worrying trend...

...BUT, when you started to scratch on the surface people realized that these kind of parties have no "thought-through-agenda", no solutions, no evolution...just crying and whining....like SVP...
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  #182  
Old 20.10.2011, 09:09
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

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One of the first things I learned when I came here is that "Yes, the Swiss are racist".

They are even "racist" against their own people ..... depending on which Canton you come from, or live in, or dialect you speak.

They enjoy their own country, are proud of it. Is there any other country in the world that so proudly displays its national flag on non-celebratory days? ...... has doormats, mugs, cutlery, crockery, Tshirts, caps, badges, bottle openers, etc etc with their national flag symbolized on it in daily ordinary usage?

Why have they got their dialects? Ever wondered about that? And it`s not even a written language.

Was anyone here when Switzerland was "forced" into this Schengen agreement? It was an insidious move. The border posts merely took their time and checked every item of every passenger in every auto - creating day long waiting queus for commuters. They were "just doing their job" so no-one could actually complain, but the message was loud and clear.
.........................................

On another note. How would any of you feel should the Canton decide to build an Asyl-Durchgangszentrum right in your own immediate neighborhood? So that 120 persons can live there while awaiting acceptance?

Yes, I know no-one would object! Unlike those in Eglisau right now who have the horrors of this happening, because they have seen how other small towns have suffered with these men sitting in the streets drinking, or blatantly shoplifting.
The Asyl-Durchgangszentrum in Eglisau is planned for the open grassy area in the centre of a group of brand new apartments with private owners, and near the train station. A good locale, what?

We have what used to be a nice house here, that is now an Asylum house.
You can smell the marijuana wafting out.
It is a known drug dealing centre.
Of course there are regular police raids.
But it is still the Asyl-house.
Dirty and unkempt.
The tax-payers support them.
And they receive everything they need,
to live comfortably.
Which is all they are asking, right?
Yes living in a refugee camp year after year seems to be the dream! The issue is the whole handling of the refugees, and it has to do with incompetence of the migration office and their policies...so please stop with your generalized propaganda, who are you trying to convince?

although Switzerland has no issues harboring billions from African dictators and then selling weapon to uphold the war and conflicts...but accepting the people fleeing from these countries...can't have that, can we?

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/politics...l?cid=31369208

http://www.thelocal.ch/701/20110729/#

http://www.thelocal.ch/1518/20111019/

"The Swiss Constitution has some principles written, such as sending aid to developing countries, fostering human rights and helping peace processes, but then Switzerland sends weapons to the same very places”
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  #183  
Old 20.10.2011, 09:16
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

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How would you feel about the Asyl-Zentrum being built in YOUR neighborhood, huh?
We have one where I live...there are no such issues as you described (copied from the SVP manifest)...
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  #184  
Old 20.10.2011, 09:19
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

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I don't know the numbers of who voted for the bi-lateral treaties, etc., but I'd guess that there were more than a few average types who voted for it and are now experiencing a bit of voter's remorse.
Switzerland has profited a lot from the bi-lateral treaties, they would never have been managing the whole finance crisis without it. Switzerland got ALL the goodies from a EU full membership...
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  #185  
Old 20.10.2011, 09:31
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

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So if they are bigots, so what? This is their country, and their government, and the rest of us are merely guests of their graciousness.

Is it envy of their system that causes all this hatred towards them?
yes we are guests (my company begged that I should come here, I don't know what "graciousness" you're talking about...?)...I have done my part; integrated, learned the language fluently, built a house, working and paying my taxes...and what do you hear? - that you (as a guest) are not welcome anymore, you're per default a criminal, your children (which are born here) are problems in the school etc.

If you live on the countryside as I do, you definitely see a huge change since SVP started the hate campaign against foreigners...e.g. some Swiss children don't want to play with my son anymore etc.
You spend all your fortune to settling in, and now you're treated as you have a deadly disease...very satisfying indeed...

The SVP campaign has made the gap between the Swiss and foreigners even bigger...good job!

the "hate" is not against the Swiss, but against the party that hates us....
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  #186  
Old 20.10.2011, 09:37
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

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Yes living in a refugee camp year after year seems to be the dream! The issue is the whole handling of the refugees, and it has to do with incompetence of the migration office and their policies...so please stop with your generalized propaganda, who are you trying to convince?

although Switzerland has no issues harboring billions from African dictators and then selling weapon to uphold the war and conflicts...but accepting the people fleeing from these countries...can't have that, can we?
Nobody said that such reasoning, as the SVP is in possession of, should ever include the truth. Truths like "we make money still harboring Nazi gold and artworks and cash from dictators worldwide, not from dirt farmers from the asian subcontinent" would never go over with the EUC on human rights and welfare. Morality is not a strong suit for a rabid nationalistic right-wing political party. (And it works, especially in uncertain times like we are in now - the SDP in Sweden has gained in popularity as has the 'True Finn' party in Finland, the leader of which, will be running for president next year and has a reasonable shot at the job).

You can't make a naked and plain run at the asylum seekers so you go after the next best thing, the immigrants who are already here and legally so.
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  #187  
Old 20.10.2011, 10:35
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

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...BUT, when you started to scratch on the surface people realized that these kind of parties have no "thought-through-agenda", no solutions, no evolution...just crying and whining....like SVP...
We wish. Don't count on that. If it is very difficult now to obtain a residence permit, think how difficult could be in the future, and how long one, regardless of the reasons he came for to this country, skills and wage, could be stuck on a temporary permit, to be renewed year after year, and if now you have to wait at least 12 years so you could apply for citizenship, you might not have the chance to do that, since you are not a real Swiss. It seems exaggerated but I simply don't trust them, I believe they are a bunch of haters and fear mongers, and only given the chance... I fully agree with Poptart that they will not make a difference between "good" immigrants and "bad" immigrants. How can one expect extremists to be reasonable?
30% of the voters...really, that is too much. I thought it was "normal" that somewhere bellow 10% every country has its fair share of far-right or far-left voters..but 30%?
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  #188  
Old 20.10.2011, 10:48
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

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I thought it was "normal" that somewhere bellow 10% every country has its fair share of far-right or far-left voters..but 30%?
30% isn't much, in the US the Republican party is around 50%.

Tom
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  #189  
Old 20.10.2011, 10:54
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

If the SVP would stick to the real issues and not use propoganda, they would get more votes. Unfortunately or fortunately, depending on who you are, the SVP is starting to lose credibility with their nazi-like posters and sensationalism. I've heard time and time again that if the SVP would just stick to the facts and present their issues in a civilized way, they would have more supporters.
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  #190  
Old 20.10.2011, 11:10
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

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30% isn't much, in the US the Republican party is around 50%.

Tom
Are you seriously comparing SVP to the Republican party? Surely not. I'm definitely not Republican, am a massive Obama supporter but to compare the 2 is unjust.
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  #191  
Old 20.10.2011, 11:43
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

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Are you seriously comparing SVP to the Republican party? Surely not. I'm definitely not Republican, am a massive Obama supporter but to compare the 2 is unjust.
Yes, the Rebublicans are for more right wing (and I used to be a registered Republican, albeit a moderate one).

Tom
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  #192  
Old 20.10.2011, 13:13
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

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Yes, the Rebublicans are for more right wing (and I used to be a registered Republican, albeit a moderate one).

Tom
I would have to disagree.
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  #193  
Old 20.10.2011, 23:14
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

You know what? At the end of the day .... you just look at all those blown-up photographs really carefully, scrutinise their eyes .....and hairstyles ..... and moustaches ....... and vote for the nicest looking!

Because it is good to have a strong right wing party, and a strong left wing party, and one middling in the middle ..... and they all somehow manage to keep order by discussing things reasonably amongst themselves.
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  #194  
Old 21.10.2011, 00:07
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

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You know what? At the end of the day .... you just look at all those blown-up photographs really carefully, scrutinise their eyes .....and hairstyles ..... and moustaches ....... and vote for the nicest looking!

Because it is good to have a strong right wing party, and a strong left wing party, and one middling in the middle ..... and they all somehow manage to keep order by discussing things reasonably amongst themselves.
About "vote for the nicest looking..."

No, I would say as usual with politicians you vote for the least worst
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  #195  
Old 21.10.2011, 11:09
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

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If the SVP would stick to the real issues and not use propoganda, they would get more votes. Unfortunately or fortunately, depending on who you are, the SVP is starting to lose credibility with their nazi-like posters and sensationalism. I've heard time and time again that if the SVP would just stick to the facts and present their issues in a civilized way, they would have more supporters.
To be honest I think if they were honest about their agenda rather than contantly appealing to the part of the brain which takes care of the fight/flight response and the other primitive instincts they'd get less.

This is somewhere where the left parties lose out, they tend to try to explain concepts rather than appeal to fear.
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  #196  
Old 21.10.2011, 11:17
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

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They enjoy their own country, are proud of it. Is there any other country in the world that so proudly displays its national flag on non-celebratory days? ...... has doormats, mugs, cutlery, crockery, Tshirts, caps, badges, bottle openers, etc etc with their national flag symbolized on it in daily ordinary usage?
America does. lol We are patriotic, which is different from ethnic-blood based ethno-nationalism or in the case of Switzerland Canton-Tribalism.
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  #197  
Old 21.10.2011, 11:26
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

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...BUT, when you started to scratch on the surface people realized that these kind of parties have no "thought-through-agenda", no solutions, no evolution...just crying and whining....like SVP...
I think you've misunderstood the meaning of the word politician. They're not supposed to have solutions. Their incentive is to parrot the stuff that gets them (re)elected. Their incentive is to play to the audience and say what the people want to hear. I don't think the SVP are better or worse than of the others in that respsct. People don't vote for solutions because solutions involve stretching outside their comfort zone and accepting unpleasant truths. The SVP works that way. But so does every single other party. You're deluding yourself if you think any differently.
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  #198  
Old 21.10.2011, 11:29
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

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No, I would say as usual with politicians you vote for the least worst
I would say you don't vote at all because every vote, no matter who it goes to, is a vote of approval for a system that's in need of reform.
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Old 21.10.2011, 11:30
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

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30% isn't much, in the US the Republican party is around 50%.

Tom
The repubilcans are anti-immigrant? Illegals yes, but do Republicans have signs against "mass immigration" from Asia, Europe, etc? Legal immigration?

No. I've never seen it on a state or national party level. I'm sure you can find some isolated rednecks or hillbillies in some local country or town, but as a party platform? No way. In fact Republicans, being pro-business tend to like skilled immigrants, more than Democrats, because Dems have to deal with labor unions. Where are the "nazi-like" anti-immigrant (legal immigrant) signs in America?? What Republican presidential candidate wants to limit legal immigration, get rid of the greencard lottery, etc? Well besides wacko Ron Paul, who has no hope of getting his party nomination.
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Old 21.10.2011, 11:33
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

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America does. lol We are patriotic, which is different from ethnic-blood based ethno-nationalism or in the case of Switzerland Canton-Tribalism.
Really? You're joking right?

America is one of the most racially and ethnically aware and discrimatory countries I've been to. Why are there African American ghettos and White suburbs if race doesn't matter? Why was Obama's election such a big deal if race doesn't matter?

But Americans love to accuse other countries of racism to deflect from their own failings.
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