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-   -   Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration] (https://www.englishforum.ch/swiss-politics-news/124269-masseneinwanderung-stoppen-initiative-limit-immigration.html)

st2lemans 13.02.2014 22:21

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]
 
Quote:

You should be ashamed of mocking this wonderful party and its great leader, full of wisdom and bright ideas:
Fine, but you were totally in left field regarding the electricity question. :rolleyes:

Tom

Guest 13.02.2014 22:26

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]
 
Touché... it is a complex issue though. If Switzerland wants to exports when it has too much, and import when it has too little (as moving away from nuclear, etc) then ...

Switzerland in the European electricity market

At the heart of Europe, Switzerland is a vital cross-border hub. Around eleven percent of Europe's electricity flows through Switzerland. While this represents a major challenge and responsibility, Switzerland benefits in many ways from this role.

Secure supply of energy


As a transit country, Switzerland is well integrated into the European grid: Its ability to import and export means that Switzerland always has sufficient electricity. Switzerland is an importer of electricity in the two winter quarters. Imports compensate for the reduced levels of electricity production caused by low water levels in the Swiss reservoirs.

Efficient electricity supply


These electricity flows would not be possible without the standards and international cooperations devised jointly with transmission system operators in neighbouring countries, which help to make the supply of energy efficient and secure. Working together in European bodies ensures that Swiss expertise in cross-border regulation is passed on, while at the same time Switzerland is able to acquire knowledge and information early on about developments in Europe. This knowledge helps to ensure that Switzerland's energy supply is secure and efficient.

Creating value from electricity trading


Electricity exports depend on cooperation with neighbouring markets and function as a result of technical standards and common market rules.

st2lemans 13.02.2014 22:28

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]
 
Quote:

Touché... it is a complex issue though. If Switzerland wants to exports when it has too much, and import when it has too little (as moving away from nuclear, etc) then ...

Switzerland in the European electricity market

At the heart of Europe, Switzerland is a vital cross-border hub. Around eleven percent of Europe's electricity flows through Switzerland. While this represents a major challenge and responsibility, Switzerland benefits in many ways from this role.

Secure supply of energy


As a transit country, Switzerland is well integrated into the European grid: Its ability to import and export means that Switzerland always has sufficient electricity. Switzerland is an importer of electricity in the two winter quarters. Imports compensate for the reduced levels of electricity production caused by low water levels in the Swiss reservoirs.

Efficient electricity supply


These electricity flows would not be possible without the standards and international cooperations devised jointly with transmission system operators in neighbouring countries, which help to make the supply of energy efficient and secure. Working together in European bodies ensures that Swiss expertise in cross-border regulation is passed on, while at the same time Switzerland is able to acquire knowledge and information early on about developments in Europe. This knowledge helps to ensure that Switzerland's energy supply is secure and efficient.

Creating value from electricity trading


Electricity exports depend on cooperation with neighbouring markets and function as a result of technical standards and common market rules.
So? :rolleyes:

We just cut them off, and then see how they deal with it. :p

We control it, got it? ;)

Tom

Guest 13.02.2014 22:37

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]
 
Must say I have to study this carefully, and I'll admit to not knowing the answers. We face our local Jura being totally covered with 120 massive wind turbines, from Creux-du-Van to Chasseron, on both NE and VD side- apparently because we are so short of electricity with the phasing out of nuclear, the argue - this electricity though will be for Geneva apparently, and not even for us:msnsick::msnsick::msnsick:

... fracking too

Phil_MCR 13.02.2014 22:37

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]
 
the bilaterals have been good for both EU and switzerland overall. the issue is now that switzerland demands quotas on immigrants, while the EU demands free movement of people.

if everyone was being practical, there'd be a way forward, but if both want to take a hard line, then they will not be able to find a solution that can fully satisfy both sides.

i don't see the need for the EU to be petty about this. in isolation, bilaterals with quotas is not a big deal. however, things may be overshadowed by future discussions with the UK and I wonder if EU officials would 'punish' switzerland (and spite their own face) in order to dissuade a UK renegotiation/exit.

in the end, with many countries pushing to repatriate some control over immigration from brussels to the member states, i believe it would be more sensible (and in the long term interests of the EU project) to reign back federal ambitions and allow member state control over immigration and thereby eliminate one of the major issues fueling anti-EU sentiment.

Faltrad 13.02.2014 22:38

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by st2lemans (Post 2088783)
So? :rolleyes:

We just cut them off, and then see how they deal with it. :p

We control it, got it? ;)

Tom

Why would you not take the money? You forgot you're Swiss or what?

Guest 13.02.2014 22:40

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]
 
They could of course decide to buy elsewhere where it is cheaper ...

Dack Rambo 13.02.2014 22:47

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]
 
Given that asylum seekers are also included in the to be proposed quota, why not allow, say, 50000 asylum seekers to enter Switzerland each year and give no permits to anyone else. This would be a way of helping people who are in need and would improve Switzerlands international image.

t3m 13.02.2014 22:52

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dack Rambo (Post 2088795)
Given that asylum seekers are also included in the to be proposed quota, why not allow, say, 50000 asylum seekers to enter Switzerland each year and give no permits to anyone else. This would be a way of helping people who are in need and would improve Switzerlands international image.

Talking of image…a second part of Image Problem (movie) is in the works, I guess…

Well, you know, second parts are never good enough, except for monoteists :p

jacek 13.02.2014 23:46

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]
 
I decided to stay calm and patient, I won't overact due to some unclear and unjustified fears. I will patiently wait for paperwork thru and enjoy every single day of life in Switzerland. My destiny is controlled by highest deity and promotion is on cards. So what exactly is going to change for a righteous folk obeying the law and doing his job? Nothing and I will prevail :)

Wollishofener 13.02.2014 23:52

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Faltrad (Post 2088750)
OK, fine. What I don't understand is why would bureaucrats in Bern or whatever cantonal capital know better what the economic interest of Switzerland is than the employers actually creating value and jobs. The S in SVP must mean "socialist"... :msnshock:

The "S" in SVP means "nationalist-Socialist" ;)

11HoursInTheTinPan 13.02.2014 23:53

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Faltrad (Post 2088788)
Why would you not take the money? You forgot you're Swiss or what?

So far the Swiss have not been known for killing the hen that lays golden eggs (knocking on wood). Treaties with the EU are much more worth than selling some grid capacity and "battery functionality". It would be stupid to give this or other trumps away for money.

Likewise if it is required to invest a huge amount of money into a train tunnel to increase total transport capacity across the Alps then this has to be done if it is worthwhile in the long term.

But each to their own, I guess. I heard other countries spend billions in building broken airports in stupid places and non-functional train stations for prestige and party-political considerations. ;) :D

Wollishofener 14.02.2014 00:01

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Batcow (Post 2088739)
It's hard to see how another referendum would produce a different result. Let's wait and see how it all pans out, there's no rush.

Different it would be anyway, but possibly even worse. The result was 0.3% plus it might next time be 3% plus or 3% minus

Nobody is to terminate the Bilaterals. This was made clear by Mr Barroso. Whatever additional control mechanisms will be introduced here it will mean many many additional state officials

jacek 14.02.2014 00:01

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wollishofener (Post 2088862)
The "S" in SVP means "nationalist-Socialist" ;)

Why do everything have to have a bad connotation? Oh world ...
Try to read it in positive meaning.

"Sweet Very Pleasant - that's an SVP one should stand for" ;)

st2lemans 14.02.2014 00:05

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wollishofener (Post 2088862)
The "S" in SVP means "nationalist-Socialist" ;)

Ummm, in the other national languages, there is no S, nor, V, nor P. :rolleyes:

Where do you make up this nonsense? ;)

Tom

Wollishofener 14.02.2014 00:08

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil_MCR (Post 2088787)
the bilaterals have been good for both EU and switzerland overall. the issue is now that switzerland demands quotas on immigrants, while the EU demands free movement of people.

if everyone was being practical, there'd be a way forward, but if both want to take a hard line, then they will not be able to find a solution that can fully satisfy both sides.

i don't see the need for the EU to be petty about this. in isolation, bilaterals with quotas is not a big deal. however, things may be overshadowed by future discussions with the UK and I wonder if EU officials would 'punish' switzerland (and spite their own face) in order to dissuade a UK renegotiation/exit.

in the end, with many countries pushing to repatriate some control over immigration from brussels to the member states, i believe it would be more sensible (and in the long term interests of the EU project) to reign back federal ambitions and allow member state control over immigration and thereby eliminate one of the major issues fueling anti-EU sentiment.

It indeed might be good to reign back centralist ambitions and enforcing federal-federalist ambitions by allowing the member states of the union to control immigration.

Such an program however will result in more state-bureaucracy and more state-bureaucrats

Phil_MCR 14.02.2014 00:29

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]
 
if i were a farmer, i'm not sure i'd want some dirty foreigners mucking about on the fields :msntongue:

cannut 14.02.2014 00:30

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]
 
I like this Very very much

11HoursInTheTinPan 14.02.2014 00:33

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jacek (Post 2088868)
Why do everything have to have a bad connotation? Oh world ...
Try to read it in positive meaning.

"Sweet Very Pleasant - that's an SVP one should stand for" ;)

That sounds very similar to what Mörgeli was stating yesterday in German TV. I think it was something along the lines of "We are very nice to foreigners. *MörgeliSmile*"

Wollishofener 14.02.2014 00:40

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by st2lemans (Post 2088872)
Ummm, in the other national languages, there is no S, nor, V, nor P. :rolleyes:

Where do you make up this nonsense? ;)

Tom

It is not just some letters, as Marton has claimed, it is that the SVP no longer believes free enterprise to be able to do what they ought to do but clearly believes in taking this back into state control.

And THIS may be the start of the Post-Blocher-time with the SVP moving back to the centre. THIS may lead to the pulverisation of the CVP. All these things do not apply to either the Romandie or to the Ticino.

Another aspect is what will happen with the BDP. Many experts expect the party to disappear and its members either to join the FDP or re-join the SVP. A rejuvenated FDP and a still strong SVP may reshape the political landscape

Over to the Lega. While the Lega is rather rightwing in principle, many leading Lega politicians due to being Zürich educted (ETH UNI etc) are closely linked to FDP people

You may regard all this as theoretical and historical and utopist, but when you realize that the Social-Democrats were breakaways from the FDP originally, And that the SVP was a federation (BGB party) of farmers parties and small enterprise and so rather centrist

AND THIS leads over to the CVP. This Catholic Conservative party which tried to stop its decline (I refer to the Zentral-Schweiz) with some left-of-centre rethorics is doomed, unless it unites with the EVP (according to the ideas of Konrad Adenauer and Theodor Heuss) into a kind of Christlich-Demokratische Unionspartei (CDU)

Ticino ? I cannot tell you about the CVP of Ticino. They might unite with the Lega or with the Social Democrats (??) of the Ticino.

And then back to the SVP. This party, in German speaking Switzerland, has become so large, that it may split into two or even three. Do not forget that each of the "splits" would be among the 6 top parties

THIS in fact is something which DID surprise me. I did not see that the initative, exactly as it was WON by the SVP, lead to the start of the post-Blocher aera, whatever this will be. Yes, the worthy Herrlibergers may have to pay more taxes, when Mr Blocher decides to move away.


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