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  #2441  
Old 18.02.2014, 21:11
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Back to the dark ages burning sheep fat for light and raclette on the fire?


"The EU has stopped talks with Switzerland on a cross-border electricity agreement which had been aimed at closer power trading ties with the country."


http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...0LN2G220140218
Switzerland produces more electricity than it uses.

That's why electricity is so cheap compared to the neighbors.

We'll just have to keep the nukes going longer, and perhaps build more.

Meanwhile, when I go to Italy, I usually end up cooking on a wood stove, in a house fueled by wood (ok, the cousins do have lots of wood)

Tom
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  #2442  
Old 18.02.2014, 21:14
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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So much so that you moved to Canada.

like i said, hypocrisy is rife.

So I did You call it "Hypocrisy" I call it action
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  #2443  
Old 18.02.2014, 21:15
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Do they believe that those in the EU will ever have confidence in investing in Switzerland again with the hindsight that they can get kicked out at a moment's notice and told FU you're out.
Umm, it's not about kicking anyone out, but rather putting controls on the amount who enter.

Tom
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  #2444  
Old 18.02.2014, 21:16
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Switzerland produces more electricity than it uses.

That's why electricity is so cheap compared to the neighbors.

We'll just have to keep the nukes going longer, and perhaps build more.

Meanwhile, when I go to Italy, I usually end up cooking on a wood stove, in a house fueled by wood (ok, the cousins do have lots of wood)

Tom
Point missed spectacularly.

Who do you think buys all that excess electricity, at quite a high price, which in turn, subsidises costs for CH people?

And even if you do sell it to someone out of the EU...how will you get it there without going through the EU?

Do you think that just because the Swiss aren't supplying, the EU will be plunged into darkness?

No, my friend. They will reactivate old power plants, while new ones are built. Before too long, it will be as though they never bought Swiss electricity.

The electricity deal was heavily weighted in CHs favour.

Dave.
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  #2445  
Old 18.02.2014, 21:16
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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So I did You call it "Hypocrisy" I call it action
So do the immigrants.
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  #2446  
Old 18.02.2014, 21:16
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Switzerland produces more electricity than it uses.
And it cannot sell it now. So It will be used for some spectacular pyrotechnic event, I am sure.


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That's why electricity is so cheap compared to the neighbors.

We'll just have to keep the nukes going longer, and perhaps build more.

Meanwhile, when I go to Italy, I usually end up cooking on a wood stove, in a house fueled by wood (ok, the cousins do have lots of wood)

Tom
E' per far la pizza bene, maledizione, sei stato talmente tanto in Svizzera che scommetto non fai nemmeno piu' bene il caffè !
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  #2447  
Old 18.02.2014, 21:22
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Sommaruga announced today that the freedom of movement treaty won't be extended to Croatia after last week's vote.
This should be added to the sticky which currently states "The current rules regarding the freedom of movement within the EU and Switzerland are expected to remain in place for the next 3 years."

To clarify exactly what is meant by "current" - maybe frozen would be a better description
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  #2448  
Old 18.02.2014, 21:23
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Now who mentioned Hinterwäldler...
Here where I grow up

Hinterwaeldler noting wrong with this
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  #2449  
Old 18.02.2014, 21:28
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Here where I grow up

Hinterwaeldler noting wrong with this
Exactly how long ago was that?

Years?

Decades?

The world has changed a lot my friend. Even Switzerland.
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  #2450  
Old 18.02.2014, 21:35
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

[QUOTE=J2488;2092584]
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Exactly how long ago was that?

Years?

Decades?

http://www.bruetten.ch/de/portrait/gemeindeinzahlen/


The world has changed a lot my friend. Even Switzerland.




But it is still there and driving ,Butcher ,Bakery Church and 4 pups http://www.bruetten.ch/de/portrait/gemeindeinzahlen/


But now I have to go watch Barcelona : Manchester city
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  #2451  
Old 18.02.2014, 21:35
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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So much so that you moved to Canada.

like i said, hypocrisy is rife.
the US caps applications for many types of entry visas, and I believe Canada has recently started to do the same. I continue to think the Swiss initiative is not brilliantly written and is creating as many problems as it is intended to solve (if not more), but the concept of caps on immigration is hardly a Swiss invention.

frankly, as an American, some of the hyperbole in this thread is even starting to turn me off - after all, as a non-EU hire my Swiss employer had to clear a boatload of hurdles to get me into Switzerland (and deal with existing caps and quotas), and my current employer is having to clear all of those same hurdles to get me into an EU country (while also dealing with existing caps and quotas). yes, I realize the treaty landscape is different, but I have to confess it's a little interesting to see how folks act when asked to walk a mile in the same shoes they make for others.
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  #2452  
Old 18.02.2014, 21:37
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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But it is still there and driving ,Butcher ,Bakery Church and 4 pups


But now I have to go watch Barcelona : Manchester city
You're going to watch one team of immigrants, play a European game, against another team of immigrants?

Oh, the Irony.
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  #2453  
Old 18.02.2014, 21:38
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Switzerland produces more electricity than it uses.

That's why electricity is so cheap compared to the neighbors.

We'll just have to keep the nukes going longer, and perhaps build more.

Meanwhile, when I go to Italy, I usually end up cooking on a wood stove, in a house fueled by wood (ok, the cousins do have lots of wood)

Tom

They export in summer but import 20% in winter. The Swiss make money by selling abroad in summer, they make no or very little money on inland sales. So electricity prices must rise. Also, in the long run-where will they get the nuclear fuels form to run the power stations?


http://www.currentconcerns.ch/index.php?id=2290
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  #2454  
Old 18.02.2014, 21:38
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Back to the dark ages burning sheep fat for light and raclette on the fire?


"The EU has stopped talks with Switzerland on a cross-border electricity agreement which had been aimed at closer power trading ties with the country."


http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...0LN2G220140218
Only because talks on an agreement on closer ties has been suspended, doesn't mean that Switzerland will suddenly be without power. There already is a lot of trade, and AFAIK parts of electricity goes through Swiss grids to Italy.

Why with all the panic? Sure, CH is not in a position to bully the EU into anything, nor has there ever been an intention to do so. There are interests for both the EU and CH to find a solution here, and the EU would look pathetic if they called sanctions on CH, because they decided they rather not delegate immigration laws to Brussels.

Also, on a side note: There is much talk about the rural population supporting this because they hate or are afraid of foreigners. Is this a fact? How many of those calling out have actually lived in rural areas or even know people from there?
The other criticism to the rural communities is that they're not even affected by the immigration. That is true, though I'd like to point out the irony in the fact that it was the urban population that accepted the "Zweitwohnungsinitiative", even though they're not affected.

PS: Yes, I grew up in a small town in the mountains, and I know people there to be much more tolerant and supportive of everyone (incl. foreigners) than your average city dweller...
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  #2455  
Old 18.02.2014, 21:40
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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the US caps applications for many types of entry visas, and I believe Canada has recently started to do the same. I continue to think the Swiss initiative is not brilliantly written and is creating as many problems as it is intended to solve (if not more), but the concept of caps on immigration is hardly a Swiss invention.

frankly, as an American, some of the hyperbole in this thread is even starting to turn me off - after all, as a non-EU hire my Swiss employer had to clear a boatload of hurdles to get me into Switzerland (and deal with existing caps and quotas), and my current employer is having to clear all of those same hurdles to get me into an EU country (while also dealing with existing caps and quotas). yes, I realize the treaty landscape is different, but I have to confess it's a little interesting to see how folks act when asked to walk a mile in the same shoes they make for others.
With the greatest respect, its not quite the same...CH never signed a FMOP treaty with the US, and they aren't going back on it now.
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Old 18.02.2014, 21:40
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Cannut, you know I think you are so cute,with your ' you-stupid , me not" arguement (and I kind of agree with you about the Swiss villager who just wants to be left in peace, in their Idyllic pastoral life), but the reality is that most Swiss don't want that anymore. Most Swiss want to live in cities and they want the modern urban lifestyle.


Now that the Swiss are done with excelling in cuckoo clocks, mercenaries, chocolate, Swiss knives, bankingindustries they must come up with some new area to sell to the world.


If the Swiss had to bring in foreigners, because the tagesarbeiter system was it was no longer feasible. Switzerland is not an island, its border will remain as a semipermeable membrane. Switzerland must have cheap immigrant labor in order to satisfy those who cannot like you and me live frugally in the mountains on cheese, milk and bread. Blocher is an advocate of that lifestyle but he would never actually live it- he is a big time industrialist who peddles romanticism. to con the patriotic Swiss.


I do find it a little hypocritical for you as a Canadian immigrant to be complaining about immigrants in Switzerland. What do you say when Canadians tell you to go back home?
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Old 18.02.2014, 21:47
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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You're going to watch one team of immigrants, play a European game, against another team of immigrants?

Oh, the Irony.

Right go messi go I mean Barcelona
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  #2458  
Old 18.02.2014, 21:47
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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With the greatest respect, its not quite the same...CH never signed a FMOP treaty with the US, and they aren't going back on it now.
I fully appreciate the distinction, but much of the hyperbole in this thread is about how the Swiss are rednecks, or foolish, or xenophobic, etc. for wanting to limit immigration. and that is a wholly different discussion than focusing solely on the fact that the Swiss want to now revisit a treaty that may not be working out for them the way they anticipated when they signed it. and, as a complete outsider, I have to admit that even I can see some of the circumstances that have changed in the EU over the last 6-8 years that might cause a country like Switzerland to want to revisit the treaty.
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Old 18.02.2014, 21:48
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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And all the goods coming in to Switzerland will get here by Apparition, will they?
Due to its geographical location, Switzerland occupies a special position in the European transport network. A significant proportion of international goods transport between northern and southern Europe goes over Swiss alpine passes. We can always collect "our" goods at the border and turn the trucks and trains around. They'll have to find another way to transport their goods to other places.

Are you familiar with the GBT? Probably not...The Gotthard Base Tunnel will surpass the 53.8-kilometer Seikan rail tunnel linking the Japanese islands of Honshu and Hokkaido and the world's longest road tunnel, the 24.5-kilometer Laerdal in Norway.

In 2016-17, The Gotthard Base Tunnel at 57 km will surpass not only the Lötschberg Base Tunnel as the longest land tunnel in the world, but also the Japanese Seikan Submarine Tunnel (53.85km) as the world’s longest tunnel — period!....it's funny how many of you come to Switzerland to collect a pay check but you don't "really" understand why Switzerland is small but a BIG player on the world map....amazing!
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Old 18.02.2014, 21:53
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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I fully appreciate the distinction, but much of the hyperbole in this thread is about how the Swiss are rednecks, or foolish, or xenophobic, etc. for wanting to limit immigration. and that is a wholly different discussion than focusing solely on the fact that the Swiss want to now revisit a treaty that may not be working out for them the way they anticipated when they signed it. and, as a complete outsider, I have to admit that even I can see some of the circumstances that have changed in the EU over the last 6-8 years that might cause a country like Switzerland to want to revisit the treaty.
To be fair to everyone, that hyperbole was about urbanisation, which was used as one reason why this was voted for...It was discussed based on this pretense. I don't think anyone called them foolish or xenephobic in general (though there was someone who claimed they were smarter, based on having one university in the top 20)

And, to be even more fair, cannut bought that up as one of the main reason why he agreed, which is why it was being discussed...

To be honest, i like where this conversation has headed...we're getting to the basic reasons that people voted yes, and questioning if they have merit or not.
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