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  #2461  
Old 18.02.2014, 21:58
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Due to its geographical location, Switzerland occupies a special position in the European transport network. A significant proportion of international goods transport between northern and southern Europe goes over Swiss alpine passes. We can always collect "our" goods at the border and turn the trucks and trains around. They'll have to find another way to transport their goods to other places.

Are you familiar with the GBT? Probably not...The Gotthard Base Tunnel will surpass the 53.8-kilometer Seikan rail tunnel linking the Japanese islands of Honshu and Hokkaido and the world's longest road tunnel, the 24.5-kilometer Laerdal in Norway.

In 2016-17, The Gotthard Base Tunnel at 57 km will surpass not only the Lötschberg Base Tunnel as the longest land tunnel in the world, but also the Japanese Seikan Submarine Tunnel (53.85km) as the world’s longest tunnel — period!....it's funny how many of you come to Switzerland to collect a pay check but you don't "really" understand why Switzerland is small but a BIG player on the world map....amazing!
Right, and the EU will just say, 'oh well, that's that then'.

No...they will simply make it so difficult to buy swiss goods via trade tariffs, penalties, fees, and taxes, that trade will plummet. The EU wont be too badly affected, but Switzerland will be screwed.

In parallel, the millions of swiss companies who sell to or depend on EU trade will be screwed over.

Its amazing how many swiss don't "really" understand that they need the EU more than the EU needs them.

In any case, lets come back to reality, shall we? They will never, ever turn away EU trucks at the border. To do so would be economic suicide.
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  #2462  
Old 18.02.2014, 22:08
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Due to its geographical location, Switzerland occupies a special position in the European transport network. A significant proportion of international goods transport between northern and southern Europe goes over Swiss alpine passes. We can always collect "our" goods at the border and turn the trucks and trains around. They'll have to find another way to transport their goods to other places.

Are you familiar with the GBT? Probably not...The Gotthard Base Tunnel will surpass the 53.8-kilometer Seikan rail tunnel linking the Japanese islands of Honshu and Hokkaido and the world's longest road tunnel, the 24.5-kilometer Laerdal in Norway.

In 2016-17, The Gotthard Base Tunnel at 57 km will surpass not only the Lötschberg Base Tunnel as the longest land tunnel in the world, but also the Japanese Seikan Submarine Tunnel (53.85km) as the world’s longest tunnel — period!....it's funny how many of you come to Switzerland to collect a pay check but you don't "really" understand why Switzerland is small but a BIG player on the world map....amazing!

It's not the only way, remember when there was a fire in the Gotthard- di Europe come to a standstill? there are still ships and planes and roads and trains around Switzerland.


But anyway, I will bow out of the discussion for a while. I really have no skin in the game, while I pine for the idyllic Swiss pastoral life I am a total hypocrite, I married an Oil and Gas man and have a passport and a house in every country I live in. I have my Raclette and Greyezer in the fridge locally bought imported from CH. In fact I bleive that some of the best Swiss cheese is for export only. We are the opportunists, never have all our eggs in one basket, pick and choose as we feel fit.


But to the Swiss I would say that they better start back-pedaling on this vote, because the repercussions are already beginning to be felt. Better to panic now and rectify it rather than wait until it is too late!


Unless, of course you can live the pastoral serf life, which I think I wouldn't mind. Maybe retire in CH, buy a log cabin in Tessin, close the Gothard tunnel and live in seclusion?
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Old 18.02.2014, 22:12
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Are the Swiss prepared to lay siege to your own land? Are you prepared to live on chocolate, bread, cheese and milk? The EU will not come to an end simply because Switzerland blocks transport, but Switzerland might.
Sorry to disappoint you, but Switzerland won't either....The EU is already a sinking ship anyways. Most of the countries are broke but Switzerland remained wealthy!...

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Right, and the EU will just say, 'oh well, that's that then'.

No...they will simply make it so difficult to buy swiss goods via trade tariffs, penalties, fees, and taxes, that trade will plummet. The EU wont be too badly affected, but Switzerland will be screwed.

In parallel, the millions of swiss companies who sell to or depend on EU trade will be screwed over.

Its amazing how many swiss don't "really" understand that they need the EU more than the EU needs them.
Switzerland is not sucking at the tit of Germany...your dream of a failed Switzerland will not be realized. Perhaps the trade agreement that Switzerland signed with China will help makeup for some of the trade with the sinking EU...LOL In fact Switzerland is ahead of the EU is this respect.

China and Switzerland signed a free trade agreement in Beijing - a move that came amid escalating tensions between Asia's economic giant and the European Union.

The pact followed China's signing in April of its first free trade accord with a European economy, non-EU member Iceland. The deal, however, marked the first with an economy in continental Europe.

The bilateral trade volume between China and Switzerland reached $26.31 billion in 2012. The figure for the first five months of this year surged to $22.89 billion in 2013.

The free-trade signing came just days after the Chinese government formally began an investigation into whether Europe is selling wine in China below cost, a response to heightened trade tensions with the European Union.

EU officials have said China is only targeting the EU wine industry in retaliation for a dispute with the European Union over cheap Chinese solar panels."

You don't know ANYTHING about Switzerland at all! You're just here to collect a pay check...nothing more.
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  #2464  
Old 18.02.2014, 22:15
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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It's not the only way, remember when there was a fire in the Gotthard- di Europe come to a standstill? there are still ships and planes and roads and trains around Switzerland.


But anyway, I will bow out of the discussion for a while. I really have no skin in the game, while I pine for the idyllic Swiss pastoral life I am a total hypocrite, I married an Oil and Gas man and have a passport and a house in every country I live in. I have my Raclette and Greyezer in the fridge locally bought imported from CH. In fact I bleive that some of the best Swiss cheese is for export only. We are the opportunists, never have all our eggs in one basket, pick and choose as we feel fit.


But to the Swiss I would say that they better start back-pedaling on this vote, because the repercussions are already beginning to be felt. Better to panic now and rectify it rather than wait until it is too late!


Unless, of course you can live the pastoral serf life, which I think I wouldn't mind. Maybe retire in CH, buy a log cabin in Tessin, close the Gothard tunnel and live in seclusion?
Save the sob story...there will be no back pedaling...it's done.
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  #2465  
Old 18.02.2014, 22:20
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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No...they will simply make it so difficult to buy swiss goods via trade tariffs, penalties, fees, and taxes, that trade will plummet. The EU wont be too badly affected, but Switzerland will be screwed.

In parallel, the millions of swiss companies who sell to or depend on EU trade will be screwed over.
...the free trade agreement from 1972, amongst many others, is not part of nor affected by the guillotine clause of the "Bilateralen I".
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Old 18.02.2014, 22:26
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Also, in the long run-where will they get the nuclear fuels form to run the power stations?
Iran?

Tom
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Old 18.02.2014, 22:26
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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You don't know ANYTHING about Switzerland at all! You're just here to collect a pay check...nothing more.
Wow, you are even less modest than I am. Congratulations, it's not easy. Welcome in the elite liga.

I don't mind Swiss souverainist delirium, it won't change anything about the business. Everybody wants to make money, what works well now between countries will continue if it brings profit. If it doesn't, bith parts will just act accordingly without tears.

If they really manage to get immigration from poor countries down to neglectable numbers, I wonder where the Swiss will get their dope. The Innerrhoder connection?
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Old 18.02.2014, 22:27
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Only because talks on an agreement on closer ties has been suspended, doesn't mean that Switzerland will suddenly be without power. There already is a lot of trade, and AFAIK parts of electricity goes through Swiss grids to Italy.

Why with all the panic? Sure, CH is not in a position to bully the EU into anything, nor has there ever been an intention to do so. There are interests for both the EU and CH to find a solution here, and the EU would look pathetic if they called sanctions on CH, because they decided they rather not delegate immigration laws to Brussels.

Also, on a side note: There is much talk about the rural population supporting this because they hate or are afraid of foreigners. Is this a fact? How many of those calling out have actually lived in rural areas or even know people from there?
The other criticism to the rural communities is that they're not even affected by the immigration. That is true, though I'd like to point out the irony in the fact that it was the urban population that accepted the "Zweitwohnungsinitiative", even though they're not affected.

PS: Yes, I grew up in a small town in the mountains, and I know people there to be much more tolerant and supportive of everyone (incl. foreigners) than your average city dweller...
I'm living since 7 years in a small quiet SVP village (pop 2000), and of course most were against it even though it saved the village i.e. releasing land for building new houses and apartments (over 80% were foreigners) saved the school, post, Volg, bank from being closed and several new companies opened up and now the village is flourishing and all thanks to the Bilaterals…

the village has 23% foreigners, very low rate crime…
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Old 18.02.2014, 22:28
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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They export in summer but import 20% in winter.
So build more nukes.

The people haven't voted on that one yet, and give this, I think that a "GO NUKES" campaign would have little difficulty passing.

Tom
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Old 18.02.2014, 22:30
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Sorry to disappoint you, but Switzerland won't either....The EU is already a sinking ship anyways. Most of the countries are broke but Switzerland remained wealthy!...

Switzerland is not sucking at the tit of Germany...your dream of a failed Switzerland will not be realized. Perhaps the trade agreement that Switzerland signed with China will help makeup for some of the trade with the sinking EU...LOL In fact Switzerland is ahead of the EU is this respect.

China and Switzerland signed a free trade agreement in Beijing - a move that came amid escalating tensions between Asia's economic giant and the European Union.

The pact followed China's signing in April of its first free trade accord with a European economy, non-EU member Iceland. The deal, however, marked the first with an economy in continental Europe.

The bilateral trade volume between China and Switzerland reached $26.31 billion in 2012. The figure for the first five months of this year surged to $22.89 billion in 2013.

The free-trade signing came just days after the Chinese government formally began an investigation into whether Europe is selling wine in China below cost, a response to heightened trade tensions with the European Union.

EU officials have said China is only targeting the EU wine industry in retaliation for a dispute with the European Union over cheap Chinese solar panels."

You don't know ANYTHING about Switzerland at all! You're just here to collect a pay check...nothing more.
Switzerland is relatively wealthy, true...but how did it get so? Itself? or due to large parts, in foreign and in particular, EU investment?

'dream of a failed switzerland' lol...is this the go-to response when you're discussing something like this with someone who keeps proving you wrong? Switzerland will not fail as a state, no...but it will lose out a lot more than the EU.

Remind me, how much trade and services did Switzerland do with the EU last year alone? 26 billion? no...23 billion? no...238 Billion Euros. If we're comparing $ to $, thats 330 Billion

http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/doc...doc_113450.pdf

It amuses me that you think trade with the EU is a bad thing but trade with the PRC is a good thing...Free Trade with China will cause more damage to swiss products than with the EU, as Swiss citizens turn towards cheap chinese imports, rather than the more expensive indiginous products. That has been the case everywhere in the world, and Switzerland will be no exception. Do you think it would be good if Switzerland depended on trade with China?

Regarding your little quip regarding me not knowing anything...even if that were the case, i would still know twice as much as you PJ.

You entertain me, PJ.

'Dream of a failed Switzerland'

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Old 18.02.2014, 22:31
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Wow, you are even less modest than I am. Congratulations, it's not easy. Welcome in the elite liga.

I don't mind Swiss souverainist delirium, it won't change anything about the business. Everybody wants to make money, what works well now between countries will continue if it brings profit. If it doesn't, bith parts will just act accordingly without tears.

If they really manage to get immigration from poor countries down to neglectable numbers, I wonder where the Swiss will get their dope. The Innerrhoder connection?
It's immigration from everywhere not only poor countries. I agree with your middle paragraph (in bold) though...the rest....
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Old 18.02.2014, 22:35
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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So build more nukes.

The people haven't voted on that one yet, and give this, I think that a "GO NUKES" campaign would have little difficulty passing.

Tom

Gee Tom your out of date on this one. Coal plants are in ,look at "Deutschland ". Ignore the emmishion tready with the EU http://www.thegwpf.org/germany-open-...ower-stations/ http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1226799246334#
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Old 18.02.2014, 22:39
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Iran?

Tom
You mean the most heavily sanctioned country in the world?

Go for it.


Dave.
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  #2474  
Old 18.02.2014, 22:41
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Switzerland is relatively wealthy, true...but how did it get so? Itself? or due to large parts, in foreign and in particular, EU investment?

'dream of a failed switzerland' lol...is this the go-to response when you're discussing something like this with someone who keeps proving you wrong? Switzerland will not fail as a state, no...but it will lose out a lot more than the EU.

Remind me, how much trade and services did Switzerland do with the EU last year alone? 26 billion? no...23 billion? no...51.2 billion. Including direct investment from the EU, that becomes 200.3 Bilion Euros, or 240Billion Francs.

It amuses me that you think trade with the EU is a bad thing but trade with the PRC is a good thing...Free Trade with China will cause more damage to swiss products than with the EU, as Swiss citizens turn towards cheap chinese imports, rather than the more expensive indiginous products. That has been the case everywhere in the world, and Switzerland will be no exception. Do you think it would be good if Switzerland depended on trade with China?

Regarding your little quip regarding me not knowing anything...even if that were the case, i would still know twice as much as you PJ.

You entertain me, PJ.

'Dream of a failed Switzerland'
Don't flatter yourself...your responses are weak at best. I certainly don't feel there is anything wrong with Switzerland trading with the EU...however, Switzerland is ahead of the EU as far as trading goes. If you think that with the current vote that Switzerland will all of sudden allow China to run the show you know less about the Swiss and Switzerland than I thought and it shows with every post you write...Don't be mislead. The trade with Switzerland and China is not just about clothing and pots and pans..LOL And don't forget, the trade agreement with China was only signed last year. And they already have more than half the trade amount that Switzerland does with the EU... Just think in another year or two it could surpass the trade with EU...China can't stand the EU, who has respect for the EU, the one you are depending on to save you? The countries in EU are broke except their leader Germany...LOL And please in the future, try to be more original with your post!
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Old 18.02.2014, 22:49
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Iran?

Tom

You have a misplaced sense of entitlement.


Iran trades massively with Germany and China, they will look to the lifting go of sanctions and massive new investment. They have no desire to rock the boat by selling to Switzerland. Iranians need the Swiss Embassy for backroom negotiations, but any loss there can be overcome.


China's biggest trading partner is the EU. Some of the Swiss trade with China must rely on working of the prior EU agreement. China will not jeopardize its trade with Germany or the EU for trade agreements with Switzerland. All Angela Merkel has to do is whisper into Xi Kingpin's ear to send Switzerland down the river.


Here is the economic forecast for CH form mid Jan- looks bleak, but they were hopeful that the EU ties would bolster the economy. Now what?


http://www.nasdaq.com/article/swiss-...20140122-00097
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Old 18.02.2014, 22:49
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Don't flatter yourself...your responses are weak at best. I certainly don't feel there is anything wrong with Switzerland trading with the EU...however, Switzerland is ahead of the EU as far as trading goes.

If you think that with the current vote that Switzerland will all of sudden allow China to run the show you know less about the Swiss and Switzerland than I thought and it shows with every post you write...Don't be mislead. The trade with Switzerland and China is not just about clothing and pots and pans..LOL

And don't forget, the trade agreement with China was only signed last year. And they already have more than half the trade amount that Switzerland does with the EU... Just think in another year or two it could surpass the trade with EU...

China can't stand the EU, who has respect for the EU, the one you are depending on to save you? The countries in EU are broke except their leader Germany...LOL And please in the future, try to be more original with your post!
I put in paragraphs in your post, to actually make it readable.

Are you seriously hedging your bets on the communist state of China? You're going to go from one super power, to a far worse one, just to spite the EU?

That's like prostituting yourself to spite your boyfriend/girlfriend when you have an argument.

Then again, if you think 51.2billion is over half of 330billion, then no doubt the nonsense you're spouting makes sense to you.

I thought you were joking, but by god, your serious!

Go for it. Seriously, go for it
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Old 18.02.2014, 22:50
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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It's immigration from everywhere not only poor countries. I agree with your middle paragraph (in bold) though...the rest....
Fair enough: If the Swiss manage to get immigration from everywhere down to neglectable numbers, I wonder where the Swiss will get their dope from.... the innerrhoder connectin?
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Old 18.02.2014, 22:53
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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The countries in EU are broke except their leader Germany...LOL And please in the future, try to be more original with your post!
all countries in the EU are broke except Germany?…..yeah :roll eyes:
you really ARE totally clueless…wow...
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Old 18.02.2014, 23:01
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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I put in paragraphs in your post, to actually make it readable.

Are you seriously hedging your bets on the communist state of China? You're going to go from one super power, to a far worse one, just to spite the EU?

That's like prostituting yourself to spite your boyfriend/girlfriend when you have an argument.

Then again, if you think 51.2billion is over half of 330billion, then no doubt the nonsense you're spouting makes sense to you.

I thought you were joking, but by god, your serious!



Go for it. Seriously, go for it

Ignorance is bliss!


I agree with you entirely which is why way back I said. "Ya had it coming Switzerland" and PJ ilk's comments really justify my schadenfreude.


I see CH as an ecnomically sinking ship with this vote.


Being somewhat invested in Switzerland I will take hit, but I feel that it is necessary if it brings a long waited for sense of realization to the SVP- voters.


DB says that it was not just the SVP who promoted this vote, but unfortunately, the other parties may have seen this as a Monkey see- Monkey do cheap vote catcher without fully thinking it through.


This one is not the same as the Burkha vote.
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Old 18.02.2014, 23:05
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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You have a misplaced sense of entitlement.


Iran trades massively with Germany and China, they will look to the lifting go of sanctions and massive new investment. They have no desire to rock the boat by selling to Switzerland. Iranians need the Swiss Embassy for backroom negotiations, but any loss there can be overcome.


China's biggest trading partner is the EU. Some of the Swiss trade with China must rely on working of the prior EU agreement. China will not jeopardize its trade with Germany or the EU for trade agreements with Switzerland. All Angela Merkel has to do is whisper into Xi Kingpin's ear to send Switzerland down the river.


Here is the economic forecast for CH form mid Jan- looks bleak, but they were hopeful that the EU ties would bolster the economy. Now what?


http://www.nasdaq.com/article/swiss-...20140122-00097
To add even more weight to your already-weighty argument...

EU trade with Switzerland last year : 240 billion Euros.
EU Trade with China : 497 Billion Euros.

Or in language ProsperityJoy will understand, $684 Billion

Swiss trade with China in the same period: $21 Billion.
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