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  #2481  
Old 18.02.2014, 23:08
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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You have a misplaced sense of entitlement.


Iran trades massively with Germany and China, they will look to the lifting go of sanctions and massive new investment. They have no desire to rock the boat by selling to Switzerland. Iranians need the Swiss Embassy for backroom negotiations, but any loss there can be overcome.


China's biggest trading partner is the EU. Some of the Swiss trade with China must rely on working of the prior EU agreement. China will not jeopardize its trade with Germany or the EU for trade agreements with Switzerland. All Angela Merkel has to do is whisper into Xi Kingpin's ear to send Switzerland down the river.


Here is the economic forecast for CH form mid Jan- looks bleak, but they were hopeful that the EU ties would bolster the economy. Now what?


http://www.nasdaq.com/article/swiss-...20140122-00097

Do you now where angela spends her holidays? hint it is not Tibet
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  #2482  
Old 18.02.2014, 23:09
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]



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Do you now where angela spends her holidays? hint it is not Tibet
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  #2483  
Old 18.02.2014, 23:11
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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I put in paragraphs in your post, to actually make it readable.

Are you seriously hedging your bets on the communist state of China? You're going to go from one super power, to a far worse one, just to spite the EU?

That's like prostituting yourself to spite your boyfriend/girlfriend when you have an argument.

Then again, if you think 51.2billion is over half of 330billion, then no doubt the nonsense you're spouting makes sense to you.

I thought you were joking, but by god, your serious!

Go for it. Seriously, go for it
I was going by your "51 billion" quote genius... LOL By the way, "a leading Chinese metallurgy producer has opened its European Trading Hub in Zug under the name Crown Metals Trading AG. The company is one of the leading Chinese producers of magnesium ingots and alloys, and non-ferrous metals." No one is doing anything to spite the EU. The trade with China was done because Switzerland is clever and before the vote....EU is a sinking ship and was NEVER a superpower! How can EU be deemed a superpower with a country at the helm who is responsible for two world wars! Most of the EU countries are broke! It's because they sold their soul to Germany...
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  #2484  
Old 18.02.2014, 23:15
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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I was going by your "51 billion" quote genius... LOL By the way, "a leading Chinese metallurgy producer has opened its European Trading Hub in Zug under the name Crown Metals Trading AG. The company is one of the leading Chinese producers of magnesium ingots and alloys, and non-ferrous metals." No one is doing anything to spite the EU. The trade with China was done because Switzerland is clever and before the vote....EU is a sinking ship and was NEVER a superpower! How can EU be deemed a superpower with a country at the helm who is responsible for two world wars! Most of the EU countries are broke! It's because they sold their soul to Germany...
I find it amusing that you ended your post with the Jester icon. Fitting.

I forget that the modern day Germans were responsible for both world wars. Thank you for outing yourself as an uneducated simpleton.

The EU is going nowhere. If it was going to crash, it would have done so in 2009.

Seriously though, if you have plummeted to the point where you're bringing the two world wars into this, i would suggest you call it a night.
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  #2485  
Old 18.02.2014, 23:19
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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I was going by your "51 billion" quote genius... LOL By the way, "a leading Chinese metallurgy producer has opened its European Trading Hub in Zug under the name Crown Metals Trading AG. The company is one of the leading Chinese producers of magnesium ingots and alloys, and non-ferrous metals." No one is doing anything to spite the EU. The trade with China was done because Switzerland is clever and before the vote....EU is a sinking ship and was NEVER a superpower! How can EU be deemed a superpower with a country at the helm who is responsible for two world wars! Most of the EU countries are broke! It's because they sold their soul to Germany...
did it take 2500 posts to go godwin?

EDIT: bonus image for post #2500:


Last edited by Phil_MCR; 18.02.2014 at 23:36.
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  #2486  
Old 18.02.2014, 23:20
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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I find it amusing that you ended your post with the Jester icon. Fitting.

I forget that the modern day Germans were responsible for both world wars. Thank you for outing yourself as an uneducated simpleton.

The EU is going nowhere. If it was going to crash, it would have done so in 2009.

Seriously though, if you have plummeted to the point where you're bringing the two world wars into this, i would suggest you call it a night.
If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen...Goodnight!
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  #2487  
Old 18.02.2014, 23:21
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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did it take 2500 posts to go godwin?
If you've followed the last 300 or so, it was only a matter of time :-)

Godwins Law...the last refuge of the desperate and misinformed.
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  #2488  
Old 18.02.2014, 23:23
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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I was going by your "51 billion" quote genius... LOL By the way, "a leading Chinese metallurgy producer has opened its European Trading Hub in Zug under the name Crown Metals Trading AG. The company is one of the leading Chinese producers of magnesium ingots and alloys, and non-ferrous metals." No one is doing anything to spite the EU. The trade with China was done because Switzerland is clever and before the vote....EU is a sinking ship and was NEVER a superpower! How can EU be deemed a superpower with a country at the helm who is responsible for two world wars! Most of the EU countries are broke! It's because they sold their soul to Germany...
it's funny how you think it's funny that you think EU is a sinking ship, if that's the case guess who else will go down with the ship...

hint, it is not Tibet...
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  #2489  
Old 18.02.2014, 23:26
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Point missed spectacularly.

Who do you think buys all that excess electricity, at quite a high price, which in turn, subsidises costs for CH people?
Umm, 5% or so excess is hardly something that would be missed.

Also, since TI over-produces by far and sells to the north, guess who will feel the pinch? (clue: people who voted NO!)

Tom
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  #2490  
Old 18.02.2014, 23:28
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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The average age of all the Swiss i know is 23.
You should try hanging out with adults.

Tom
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  #2491  
Old 18.02.2014, 23:28
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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it's funny how you think it's funny that you think EU is a sinking ship, if that's the case guess who else will go down with the ship...

hint, it is not Tibet...
EU was a sinking ship from the beginning. Switzerland survived two World Wars without a hitch...
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  #2492  
Old 18.02.2014, 23:31
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Switzerland survived two World Wars without a hitch...
The Czech republic would also have done as well without the Invasion...
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  #2493  
Old 18.02.2014, 23:33
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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You have a misplaced sense of entitlement.


Iran trades massively with Germany and China, they will look to the lifting go of sanctions and massive new investment. They have no desire to rock the boat by selling to Switzerland. Iranians need the Swiss Embassy for backroom negotiations, but any loss there can be overcome.


China's biggest trading partner is the EU. Some of the Swiss trade with China must rely on working of the prior EU agreement. China will not jeopardize its trade with Germany or the EU for trade agreements with Switzerland. All Angela Merkel has to do is whisper into Xi Kingpin's ear to send Switzerland down the river.


Here is the economic forecast for CH form mid Jan- looks bleak, but they were hopeful that the EU ties would bolster the economy. Now what?


http://www.nasdaq.com/article/swiss-...20140122-00097
But Merkels plan seems to be quite different (rough translation):

She said that one has to negotiate well-considered now and that the goal has to be that the relationship between the EU stays as intensive as possible. [...] Merkel warns from hurried sanctions against Switzerland. The transition time of three years should be used to find reasonable solutions: "I believe that we should consider very carefully for the different sections: How do we continue to shape this."

You only have to worry if she expresses her "fullest confidence" in you
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  #2494  
Old 18.02.2014, 23:36
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

Lol. I have been thinking about this for quite a while.

We have three variables (time,space and quotas) so even if it seems
impossible to respect the EU treaties and still implement this massenblabla it is actually possible.

In my opinion they will implement it in the following way:

a) None of the UDC bullshit will be implemented. It is detrimental to
everything and pointless nationalistic propaganda.

b) Solved a), the politicians will create a quota system as follows:

-50% of the cantons have to be, every year, without a quota
-the other bit can adhere to quotas
-a canton can stay in quota state for max 5 years
-a good distribution of quota-non quota cantons shall be enforced to avoid
clustering of cantons.

It curbs immigration: yes, it makes it a pain.
It makes the EU happy: yes it does.

The only ones unhappy would be UDC people, that, I understand, are rich and wealthy, so they can live with it.

No consequences, EU treaties intact.

It reminds me vaguely of the time division protocol of early bluetooth, lol.
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Old 18.02.2014, 23:41
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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EU was a sinking ship from the beginning. Switzerland survived two World Wars without a hitch...
yes the Swiss had it very easy during WW2...
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  #2496  
Old 18.02.2014, 23:42
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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I find it amusing that you ended your post with the Jester icon. Fitting.

I forget that the modern day Germans were responsible for both world wars.
Thank you for outing yourself as an uneducated simpleton.

The EU is going nowhere. If it was going to crash, it would have done so in 2009.

Seriously though, if you have plummeted to the point where you're bringing the two world wars into this, i would suggest you call it a night.

Me uneducated hinterwaeldler ,which lives in Canada would disagree whit this statement
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  #2497  
Old 18.02.2014, 23:47
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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it's funny how you think it's funny that you think EU is a sinking ship, if that's the case guess who else will go down with the ship...

hint, it is not Tibet...

My line find your own please
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  #2498  
Old 18.02.2014, 23:50
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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I'm living since 7 years in a small quiet SVP village (pop 2000), and of course most were against it even though it saved the village i.e. releasing land for building new houses and apartments (over 80% were foreigners) saved the school, post, Volg, bank from being closed and several new companies opened up and now the village is flourishing and all thanks to the Bilaterals…

the village has 23% foreigners, very low rate crime…
From the context I assume you mean they were against immigration, i.e. they voted yes?

What I am having trouble understanding is, why so many are interpreting this vote as a wish to kick out every foreigner. I understand why politicians and the press do it, then such extreme statements gets them attention.

I doubt that any voter didn't know that the CH needs people from elsewhere to come and work here. It's even one of the first sentences in the argumentation for the initiative.

However, in my understanding the result has more to do with the question, wether the current rate of growth is really sustainable in the long run and wether CH, as a sovereign state, should be fully in charge of immigration or its legislation respectively.

That the EU would emphatically put contracts on hold and threaten other consequences is not surprising. They face increasing resistance against the migration policy within member states, and don't want to exactly encourage them by being lenient with CH. However, non of them have been cancelled outright yet, so it's too early to jump to conclusions there.

When I got my Australian visa, I had to prove that I have enough funds to support myself and much more. I went through that, because I wanted to go to AU. To me it seems prudent for a country to steer the immigration according to their needs, and not to those of others.

Even if the "Bilateralen I" should be void as a whole, it's not the end of the world. Trade will still take place, as the free trade agreement (1972) is still valid then. Of course, EU-Citizens will have to do a bit more work to come here, just as they had to before 2000 and everyone from the "rest of the world" always had to.

Much of this talk about this vote being accepted equaling the end of the CH economy comes from the campaign against the initiative. But, as with all propaganda for and against, it should be taken with a grain of salt. This is not the end of the word nor will CH suddenly turn into an island.

Another thing I wanted to point out, is that many voters are displeased at our federal council, which seems too eager to abide by the EU. Also, in the past years there has been a lot of pressure, partly bordering on extortion, from the EU and some particular member states (ever wondered why some nationals are not so popular here?) to force their interests on CH.
If you consider that, it may not be surprising that people are not to keen on contracts that, in part, force CH to submit to EU judiciary and automatically adopt aspects of its legislation.


TLDNR:
Xenophobia was not the primary motivation against the PFZ. Foreigners will not be kicked out. The economy won't stop. CH is not turning to an island. Armageddon is not nigh.


Speaking of islands, allow me to borrow something from the UK:
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  #2499  
Old 18.02.2014, 23:53
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

I understand the need to curb immigration due to house prices spiking and so on.

What I do not understand is the nationalistic propaganda in which this was brought up.
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  #2500  
Old 18.02.2014, 23:55
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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But Merkels plan seems to be quite different (rough translation):

She said that one has to negotiate well-considered now and that the goal has to be that the relationship between the EU stays as intensive as possible. [...] Merkel warns from hurried sanctions against Switzerland. The transition time of three years should be used to find reasonable solutions: "I believe that we should consider very carefully for the different sections: How do we continue to shape this."

You only have to worry if she expresses her "fullest confidence" in you

Angela proof to be a smart cookie BTW I seen a picture of her naked
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