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  #241  
Old 01.01.2014, 16:00
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

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And for Ecopop?
Probably yes on that as well.

Tom
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  #242  
Old 01.01.2014, 17:58
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

So meaningless and stupid initiative, even if it gets the majority nothing will change, still surprised to see that people has not learned that yet...

There will always be possible for the companies to get people, if it's not from the EU they will get it from other countries...

If SVP could for once say how they want to solve the "problem", I would never ever vote for something that will not offer an alternative solution(s)...

I hope EU will cancel the bilateral & "free movement of persons" if it goes through and really really hope that Switzerland can rely only their own citizens (yeah right like that could ever happen )
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  #243  
Old 02.01.2014, 22:11
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

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Probably yes on that as well.

Tom

In the spirit of this motion I'm donating condoms to Ecopop supporters (yes, I've read their pamphlet they had sent to everyone earlier this year). Stop breeding, save Switzerland!
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  #244  
Old 16.01.2014, 23:33
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

This is just one of countless initiatives in the populist agenda of the SVP. Note the red-white-black illustrations that come with every new advertisement, I can't see them anymore. A while ago, the young SVP Zurich tried to introduce a two pass system: one for "Swiss people since birth", one for "naturalized subjects".
I used to vote regularly to counteract some SVP voter but to be honest I am getting quite tired and disillusioned of the political situation at the moment in Switzerland. It seems to be getting more about what gets votes, not what really matters for a change. That's not just the SVP, newest example is the abortion-initiative. I mean, does this subject REALLY concern people's daily lives that much?? Or does it matter for Switzerland's future at all?
Someone should make an initiative to stop stupid initiatives, maybe they should double the signature number required!
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  #245  
Old 16.01.2014, 23:42
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

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You honestly believe that people here are more open towards Eastern Europeans ???
Ha, you should have heard...oh, never mind. Life's beautiful.
I agree, studies showed that young people in Switzerland with an -ic name ending have the worst chances of getting a job. There is a lot of prejudice against Eastern Europeans and Turkish people, even though they're not even the biggest immigrant groups.
The people seen as most adapted are Italians and Germans, although Germans are disliked as well because they are usually well-educated and come here to get the highest paid jobs.
This is of course all very stereotyped, but then think of Switzerland as a "village culture". Also, I believe the press here is very stereotyped, when they talk about a crime it is usually described as "Swiss person with an Albanian background", not just "Swiss person", and so on.
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  #246  
Old 16.01.2014, 23:43
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

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Someone should make an initiative to stop stupid initiatives, maybe they should double the signature number required!
So, who defines stupid? North_Star maybe?
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  #247  
Old 17.01.2014, 00:41
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

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This is just one of countless initiatives in the populist agenda of the SVP. Note the red-white-black illustrations that come with every new advertisement, I can't see them anymore. A while ago, the young SVP Zurich tried to introduce a two pass system: one for "Swiss people since birth", one for "naturalized subjects".
I used to vote regularly to counteract some SVP voter but to be honest I am getting quite tired and disillusioned of the political situation at the moment in Switzerland. It seems to be getting more about what gets votes, not what really matters for a change. That's not just the SVP, newest example is the abortion-initiative. I mean, does this subject REALLY concern people's daily lives that much?? Or does it matter for Switzerland's future at all?
Someone should make an initiative to stop stupid initiatives, maybe they should double the signature number required!


About " the young SVP Zurich tried to introduce a two pass system: one for "Swiss people since birth", one for "naturalized subjects". - The GLP also supported this idea; so they no longer get my vote


About "Someone should make an initiative to stop stupid initiatives, maybe they should double the signature number required" - I believe it would be a good idea to increase the signature number required in line with the increase in the Swiss population to limit the number of frivolous referendums.
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  #248  
Old 17.01.2014, 00:43
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

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So, who defines stupid? North_Star maybe?
"stupid" was my opinion.
"Irrelevant" to current matters may be the better word. How would you characterize in one word the Masseneinwanderungsinitiative? Or the Minarett-Initiative?
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  #249  
Old 17.01.2014, 00:47
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

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So, who defines stupid? North_Star maybe?

How about renaming "stupid" as "frivolous" and defining frivolous as any referendum that gets less than say 40% JAs?
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  #250  
Old 17.01.2014, 16:06
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

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Well, we aren't SVP, but we will be voting yes, as will most people around here.

Tom
Yep...I will be voting yes as well!
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  #251  
Old 17.01.2014, 16:50
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

I`m not a voter, but I like to listen to the reasons why people here vote as they do. It seems the Swiss folk like to "walk a middle path" with no extremes.

So, like any good democracy, they have a strong middle, a left, and a right (parties)- and the voting is also not "extreme" - it is to judge what percentage, and how, the population feels on certain matters.

It`s not like a "whoopie we won!" celebration after the voting, as other countries do. The results are used to keep the extreme side parties from not swinging too wildly in one direction, and to guide the ruling party in catering for the majority of its citizens.

This initiative (Masseneinwanderung) has become an issue only because of the influx of foreigners (from all over and for various reasons) - that is over-running the land, that is running out of space to provide housing, and threatening to deplete farmland/forests. Plus of course the overburdening of social services.

This is a very small country.

This initiative is not to put a stop to qualified willing workers. It`s to try and curtail those seeking the "good life" - at the expense of the taxpayers.

Last edited by smoky; 17.01.2014 at 16:53. Reason: forgot something
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  #252  
Old 17.01.2014, 20:52
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

I can understand the yes voters.... who doesn't want to reduce the number of new comers' on Ef with always the same questions?
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  #253  
Old 17.01.2014, 21:13
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

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This initiative is not to put a stop to qualified willing workers. It`s to try and curtail those seeking the "good life" - at the expense of the taxpayers.
LOL no! that's totally wrong...the vast majority are the ones coming here to work, "the good like seekers" are truly a minority...
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  #254  
Old 17.01.2014, 21:28
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

There is also the so-called "lifeboat" mentality which is a strong factor.


You know there are people during a ship wreck who get in a lifeboat and then pull up the ladder so other people cannot get in using excuses like;
  • Not enough room in the boat
  • Not enough resources to go round
  • People who are too slow do not deserve to be in
  • &&&.
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  #255  
Old 17.01.2014, 21:44
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

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This is just one of countless initiatives in the populist agenda of the SVP. Note the red-white-black illustrations that come with every new advertisement, I can't see them anymore. A while ago, the young SVP Zurich tried to introduce a two pass system: one for "Swiss people since birth", one for "naturalized subjects".
I used to vote regularly to counteract some SVP voter but to be honest I am getting quite tired and disillusioned of the political situation at the moment in Switzerland. It seems to be getting more about what gets votes, not what really matters for a change. That's not just the SVP, newest example is the abortion-initiative. I mean, does this subject REALLY concern people's daily lives that much?? Or does it matter for Switzerland's future at all?
Someone should make an initiative to stop stupid initiatives, maybe they should double the signature number required!
I leave the judgment about what a stupid initiative to the voters.

And I am against that increasing the number of required signatures as such would increase the power of the largest parties, SVP and SP as they always will be able to get the needed signatures while smaller parties would practically be barred from launching initiatives
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  #256  
Old 17.01.2014, 21:48
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

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This is just one of countless initiatives in the populist agenda of the SVP. Note the red-white-black illustrations that come with every new advertisement, I can't see them anymore. A while ago, the young SVP Zurich tried to introduce a two pass system: one for "Swiss people since birth", one for "naturalized subjects".
I used to vote regularly to counteract some SVP voter but to be honest I am getting quite tired and disillusioned of the political situation at the moment in Switzerland. It seems to be getting more about what gets votes, not what really matters for a change. That's not just the SVP, newest example is the abortion-initiative. I mean, does this subject REALLY concern people's daily lives that much?? Or does it matter for Switzerland's future at all?
Someone should make an initiative to stop stupid initiatives, maybe they should double the signature number required!
the abortion matter DOES concern many people and is fairly important
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  #257  
Old 17.01.2014, 21:58
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

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I`m not a voter, but I like to listen to the reasons why people here vote as they do. It seems the Swiss folk like to "walk a middle path" with no extremes.

So, like any good democracy, they have a strong middle, a left, and a right (parties)- and the voting is also not "extreme" - it is to judge what percentage, and how, the population feels on certain matters.

It`s not like a "whoopie we won!" celebration after the voting, as other countries do. The results are used to keep the extreme side parties from not swinging too wildly in one direction, and to guide the ruling party in catering for the majority of its citizens.

This initiative (Masseneinwanderung) has become an issue only because of the influx of foreigners (from all over and for various reasons) - that is over-running the land, that is running out of space to provide housing, and threatening to deplete farmland/forests. Plus of course the overburdening of social services.

This is a very small country.

This initiative is not to put a stop to qualified willing workers. It`s to try and curtail those seeking the "good life" - at the expense of the taxpayers.

About "over-running the land, that is running out of space to provide housing, and threatening to deplete farmland/forests. Plus of course the overburdening of social services"


Do you have any facts or links to support these assertions? Or are you just parroting certain extreme politicians?


According to the latest figures from the Swiss Federal Statistical Office
"In the second quarter of 2012, 1.360 million foreigners were employed and 78,000 were unemployed under the ILO definition."
Link is here http://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/portal/e...ent.170922.pdf


This is less than 6%; hardly an overburdening of social service plus many of the now unemployed foreigners have paid their share of social taxes so are morally entitled to payouts.
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  #258  
Old 17.01.2014, 22:27
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

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I leave the judgment about what a stupid initiative to the voters.

And I am against that increasing the number of required signatures as such would increase the power of the largest parties, SVP and SP as they always will be able to get the needed signatures while smaller parties would practically be barred from launching initiatives

About "while smaller parties would practically be barred from launching initiatives"


Smaller parties? You mean the well known "forbid adding milk to tea" party?
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  #259  
Old 17.01.2014, 22:33
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

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This is just one of countless initiatives in the populist agenda of the SVP. Note the red-white-black illustrations that come with every new advertisement, I can't see them anymore. A while ago, the young SVP Zurich tried to introduce a two pass system: one for "Swiss people since birth", one for "naturalized subjects".
I used to vote regularly to counteract some SVP voter but to be honest I am getting quite tired and disillusioned of the political situation at the moment in Switzerland. It seems to be getting more about what gets votes, not what really matters for a change. That's not just the SVP, newest example is the abortion-initiative. I mean, does this subject REALLY concern people's daily lives that much?? Or does it matter for Switzerland's future at all?
Someone should make an initiative to stop stupid initiatives, maybe they should double the signature number required!

About "Note the red-white-black illustrations that come with every new advertisement, I can't see them anymore"



I was just reading an analysis that the SVP are playing this "Masseneinwanderung Stoppen" initiative low key because they do not want to win; the conclusion was the SVP want to position themselves as the party that fights for what people really want but are unfairly defeated by major interests (objective is to grow the party) - theory is all a bit too Machievellian for me to swallow.....
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Old 17.01.2014, 22:42
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

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About "while smaller parties would practically be barred from launching initiatives"


Smaller parties? You mean the well known "forbid adding milk to tea" party?
GP GLP CVP EVP -- even FDP --- and AL
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