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  #2601  
Old 20.02.2014, 23:40
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Of course, Spuhler talks reality.
Like a number of senior SVP people he has a big business; 40% of his work force are foreigners and he is very dependent on export business at the level of multi billions.

Currently it looks like the SVP shot themselves in the foot unless the Bundesrat can pull off a good deal with the EU which currently looks increasingly unlikely. To quote Widmer-Schlumpf from the same article; Switzerland have no more trumps in their hand.

I thought that in Switzerland to shoot yourself in the foot had a different meaning than we think of in GB or US. I thought that in CH it means you shoot yourself somewhere with not too much damage to avoid having to go to war. If so what battle could they possibly be hoping to avoid by doing this?


Maybe I'm wrong about the Swiss interpretation?
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Old 21.02.2014, 00:24
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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I thought that in Switzerland to shoot yourself in the foot had a different meaning than we think of in GB or US. I thought that in CH it means you shoot yourself somewhere with not too much damage to avoid having to go to war. If so what battle could they possibly be hoping to avoid by doing this?


Maybe I'm wrong about the Swiss interpretation?

The different is in the language Foot-Fuss
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  #2603  
Old 21.02.2014, 02:13
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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The SVP industrialist shot hoping to engage the SchweizerVolk romantic pastoral rosy-tinted voters blew up in their faces.

I bet they never expected it to pass, that they could pretend to be loyal to 'Conservative Swiss Values' with no fallout for them personally. they got caught in their own web. This is soooo funny!
I posted something similar a while back; I assume SVP are now thinking

Presumably in the smoke filled back rooms they are now having "serious" discussions
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Old 21.02.2014, 09:47
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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This would be the end of English Forum!
Umm, he said EDUCATED!

Tom
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  #2605  
Old 21.02.2014, 10:21
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Of course, Spuhler talks reality.
Like a number of senior SVP people he has a big business; 40% of his work force are foreigners and he is very dependent on export business at the level of multi billions.

Currently it looks like the SVP shot themselves in the foot unless the Bundesrat can pull off a good deal with the EU which currently looks increasingly unlikely. To quote Widmer-Schlumpf from the same article; Switzerland have no more trumps in their hand.
For a boost of trumps, CH only has one option: haricot beans, and lots of them!
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  #2606  
Old 21.02.2014, 13:49
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

There's an article in the Tagesanzeiger today with some people explaining why they voted yes. One lady mentioned the number of kebab shops being opened in Lausanne as her motive for voting yes. Are there really that many kebab shops in Lausanne? Anyway I'm going there this weekend so if anyone knows a good döner place there, please let me know!

http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/schweiz/...story/17603181
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  #2607  
Old 21.02.2014, 14:34
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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There's an article in the Tagesanzeiger today with some people explaining why they voted yes. One lady mentioned the number of kebab shops being opened in Lausanne as her motive for voting yes. Are there really that many kebab shops in Lausanne? Anyway I'm going there this weekend so if anyone knows a good döner place there, please let me know!

http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/schweiz/...story/17603181
Thanks for posting, DR.

Some of those reasons make no sense at all...

In the first one, she says that German professors bring German students with them. I have never come across this phenomenon before. has anyone else here?
Then she says that those working for PhD have to do so for a pittance, and thats why no swiss do it...but the germans doing it get paid the same pittance, and live in the same place, with the same costs, no?
And correct me if im wrong, but wage dumping is minimal in the central cantons, like SZ...wouldnt this be a case of the vet offering lower salaries because they want to?

As for the second lady...i dont think she realises that restricting immigration isnt going to magically keep open the bakeries and restaurants...these are being closed more due to the influence of the large stores like Migros and Coop springing up everywhere, rather than immigrants opening up kebab vendors.

The third lady believes that people should work where they live, but how many people can choose where their workplace is? Most people struggle to find a job at all, never mind only in the place they live. She says that the italians who get up at 5 to come to work displace the local swiss, but as a boss, Id hire the person wililng to get up at 5, as that suggests they're more dedicated. This is a case of the bosses taking advantage of the workforce in front of them, hiring italians who then know will work for less, rather than the swiss who will demand more.

I think it shows what many on here have suspected...a lot of voters have been convinced that things that have nothing to do with foreigners, are happening because of the foreigners. The German professors arent bringing students with them, the swiss universities are bringing them because they get money to. Bakeries and restaurants are not closing because of kebab shops, theyre closing because they cant compete with the cheap, mass-produced food from Migros, and its ilk. The immigrants arent asking to be paid less that the swiss, but they are willing to.
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  #2608  
Old 21.02.2014, 15:24
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

If German professors really are so unpopular at Swiss universities, why not switch to teaching in english and allow the world's best professors to come here?
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  #2609  
Old 21.02.2014, 15:29
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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There's an article in the Tagesanzeiger today with some people explaining why they voted yes. One lady mentioned the number of kebab shops being opened in Lausanne as her motive for voting yes. Are there really that many kebab shops in Lausanne? Anyway I'm going there this weekend so if anyone knows a good döner place there, please let me know!

http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/schweiz/...story/17603181
I wouldn't summarise the article as the previous posters. Those who read German, don't skim — those who don't, GIYBF
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  #2610  
Old 21.02.2014, 15:39
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Thanks for posting, DR.

Some of those reasons make no sense at all...

1. In the first one, she says that German professors bring German students with them. I have never come across this phenomenon before. has anyone else here?

2. Then she says that those working for PhD have to do so for a pittance, and thats why no swiss do it...but the germans doing it get paid the same pittance, and live in the same place, with the same costs, no?
And correct me if im wrong, but wage dumping is minimal in the central cantons, like SZ...wouldnt this be a case of the vet offering lower salaries because they want to?
In response to 1., I think this is actually quite common at the very least if they move directly from Germany (i.e. when their existing PhD students are somewhat likely to move with them) - in general I wouldn't be surprised it happens even after the initial period, but I don't see why they wouldn't just get Swiss ones (which I'm sure most simply do).

2. This one sounds stupid to me. There are plenty of Swiss PhDs in Switzerland, and the salary is actually pretty high for PhD standards in Europe, even if you take the higher cost of living into account. You can compare directly with Germany (of course), but also with the UK or with the Southern countries like Italy, Portugal, Spain, I think it is correct to say PhD students are paid worse in each case (and also worse than people that go straight to a non-student job).
The salaries for PhDs here I think are regulated and are not offered lower to attract German students, they are just like that so I'm not sure it is correct to talk about wage dumping in this case.
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  #2611  
Old 21.02.2014, 15:49
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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If German professors really are so unpopular at Swiss universities, why not switch to teaching in english and allow the world's best professors to come here?
Why assume the best professors speak English.
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  #2612  
Old 21.02.2014, 15:54
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

I like this guy:

http://www.rts.ch/info/dossiers/2014...tml?id=5608286

He is very clear.
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  #2613  
Old 21.02.2014, 16:09
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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If German professors really are so unpopular at Swiss universities, why not switch to teaching in english and allow the world's best professors to come here?
1. Not everything coming from English-speaking countries is great, although some of the comments here would want to make you believe otherwise.

2. Pehaps because English isn't an official language here are (again, one could believe that, considering the fact that many in this forum have lived here for years and don't speak any of the official languages).
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Old 21.02.2014, 16:10
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Why assume the best professors speak English.
Whether we like it or not, to do research nowadays it is pretty much a de facto requirement that you speak English (even if a bit mangled). I think the exceptions are extremely rare and on the older generations by now.

So the assumption is not "the best professors speak English" (and certainly not that the best ones come exclusively from English speaking countries) but implicitly "some of the best professors won't put up with having to teach in German (but will put up having to teach in English as they already speak it)".
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Old 21.02.2014, 16:19
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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I wouldn't summarise the article as the previous posters. Those who read German, don't skim — those who don't, GIYBF
Please do give a better summary; interesting for all of us.

Reading through I thought the summary was OK was a summary. Except I thought the third lady was more concerned about the environmental effect of all the autos driving from Italy every day. But there is nothing in the initiative about reducing current numbers; in fact both Brunner and Blocher have confirmed no change for existing permit holders.

Last edited by marton; 21.02.2014 at 16:34.
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  #2616  
Old 21.02.2014, 16:19
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

As it turns out, most peer reviewed publications of good quality are written in English. So most researchers speak at least some English and many grad programs have English courses. My husband's PhD students write their dissertations in English. If you want your research to be appreciated and read and cited by the research community, English is probably the best choice.

But, it's not for lack of trying to hire Swiss academics.. Sometimes Germans are hired, or Americans or Dutch, etc.


Swiss PhD students are paid relatively well, regardless of their country of origin.
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  #2617  
Old 21.02.2014, 16:31
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

This should be fun Arena - Gespaltene Schweiz: Das Duell
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Old 21.02.2014, 16:48
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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There's an article in the Tagesanzeiger today with some people explaining why they voted yes. One lady mentioned the number of kebab shops being opened in Lausanne as her motive for voting yes. Are there really that many kebab shops in Lausanne? Anyway I'm going there this weekend so if anyone knows a good döner place there, please let me know!

http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/schweiz/...story/17603181
Yes, but kebabs owners are usually turkish (or from other non-EU country)
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  #2619  
Old 21.02.2014, 16:54
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Yes, but kebabs owners are usually turkish (or from other non-EU country)
The old lady is worried about Swiss identity, a pity she gives a silly example. That's why I suggested to read the article on your own if you can, rather than just what's posted above.
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  #2620  
Old 21.02.2014, 17:04
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

I found this a while ago. AFAIK it's accurate. This is the actual situation. Maybe a mod could add this to the sticky post.

Work & Residence Permits in Switzerland
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