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  #2821  
Old 02.02.2015, 23:41
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Re: Masseneinwanderung outcome legal challenge?

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Indeed, Ticino decided.

Tom
And Switzerland ignored it, as it always will and should be. .
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  #2822  
Old 03.02.2015, 01:05
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Re: Masseneinwanderung outcome legal challenge?

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And Switzerland ignored it, as it always will and should be. .
Umm, no, they didn't, and can't, and thankfully so.

Tom
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  #2823  
Old 11.02.2015, 17:45
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

Looks like the Bundesrat has decided to go for it and change the law to implement the initiative. Then wait to see how the EU reacts.

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss-go...ation/41267674
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  #2824  
Old 11.02.2015, 17:51
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Looks like the Bundesrat has decided to go for it and change the law to implement the initiative. Then wait to see how the EU reacts.



http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss-go...ation/41267674

Yup, contingencies are coming and people already living in Switzerland have to be hired before bringing new people in.

Also, childcare will become cheaper, more doctors will be educated, more doctorates will be created, Gymnasium and vocational maturity classes financed etc. Overall just what should have been done years ago before hundreds of thousands of people were recruited from abroad. A very good development. Life was very good here without free movement of people, it's good here now and it will still be good here if the EU cancels the contracts.
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  #2825  
Old 12.02.2015, 08:12
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Yup, contingencies are coming and people already living in Switzerland have to be hired before bringing new people in.

Also, childcare will become cheaper, more doctors will be educated, more doctorates will be created, Gymnasium and vocational maturity classes financed etc. Overall just what should have been done years ago before hundreds of thousands of people were recruited from abroad. A very good development. Life was very good here without free movement of people, it's good here now and it will still be good here if the EU cancels the contracts.
Yes, it will be an Utopia. With free sex as well.
And the birds will sing and the money will flow from the fountains.

Hurrayyy !!!

You are most likely heading towards an economic depression that will last years until new arrangements are made, but it is good that you keep up the morale, you will need it.
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  #2826  
Old 12.02.2015, 08:24
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Yup, contingencies are coming and people already living in Switzerland have to be hired before bringing new people in.

Also, childcare will become cheaper, more doctors will be educated, more doctorates will be created, Gymnasium and vocational maturity classes financed etc. Overall just what should have been done years ago before hundreds of thousands of people were recruited from abroad. A very good development. Life was very good here without free movement of people, it's good here now and it will still be good here if the EU cancels the contracts.
Question is how are they going to afford it?

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/switzerl...years/41267938
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  #2827  
Old 12.02.2015, 08:37
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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You are most likely heading towards an economic depression
I think so, too - but not because of the new immigration policy, but because of strong CHF. And apparently you don't live here? Or why are you talking about "you" instead of "we"?
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  #2828  
Old 12.02.2015, 10:06
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Looks like the Bundesrat has decided to go for it and change the law to implement the initiative. Then wait to see how the EU reacts.

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss-go...ation/41267674
Interesting how they have shifted from an "we absoluetly can't do this because the EU says no" to a "we'll do some of this stuff and we'll convince the EU somehow".

We could have been at this stage months ago if they hadn't had to go through that Pavlovian denial phase.
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  #2829  
Old 12.02.2015, 10:22
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Interesting how they have shifted from an "we absoluetly can't do this because the EU says no" to a "we'll do some of this stuff and we'll convince the EU somehow".

We could have been at this stage months ago if they hadn't had to go through that Pavlovian denial phase.
As far as I understand the press announcement yesterday, they needed the time to get the various interest groups in Switzerland in line with the policy they've just announced. Also, it's pretty clear the EU won't move even an iota in terms of free movement (even though they're much more forthcoming when dealing with other countries), so the talks are just damage control anyway. Free movement of people is likely to be gone in 2017, the rest will still be here in some form or another.

It's not like the EU doesn't do compromises - yesterday they signed an agreement with the UK, allowing the latter full access to the Schengen info database without forcing the UK to join. This goes against the EU's "all or nothing" rethoric and shows that that's just a facade and they can't agree on anything, even when member states are involved.

Switzerland will be concentrating on cutting deals with Germany, France, Italy and Austria directly, as most of our exports go there. They'll also likely resume talks for a free trade agreement with the US and some Asian states.

So the future most certainly doesn't look as bleak as some here think / claim to think. I'm pretty much convinced that this whole process serves the best interests of this country.
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  #2830  
Old 12.02.2015, 10:24
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Yup, contingencies are coming and people already living in Switzerland have to be hired before bringing new people in.

Also, childcare will become cheaper, more doctors will be educated, more doctorates will be created, Gymnasium and vocational maturity classes financed etc. Overall just what should have been done years ago before hundreds of thousands of people were recruited from abroad. A very good development. Life was very good here without free movement of people, it's good here now and it will still be good here if the EU cancels the contracts.
I wonder what "resident" will mean. Does it mean swiss by birth, or C Permit ? If its C Permit then it could be a bonus for people already in CH on C Permits as they would get priority for employment roles.
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  #2831  
Old 12.02.2015, 10:26
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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I wonder what "resident" will mean. Does it mean swiss by birth, or C Permit ? If its C Permit then it could be a bonus for people already in CH on C Permits as they would get priority for employment roles.
They've stated that 'residents' are all the people who are already in Switzerland. Even the refugees will see their status improved.
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  #2832  
Old 12.02.2015, 11:17
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

If CH introduces contingents for EU citizens, will the EU then also cancel free movement of CH citizens to the EU as per the bilateral treaties? It seems logical to me that it would work both ways. From what I read more than 400'000 Swiss nationals live within the EU. They will all need a visum then?
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  #2833  
Old 12.02.2015, 11:28
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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If CH introduces contingents for EU citizens, will the EU then also cancel free movement of CH citizens to the EU as per the bilateral treaties? It seems logical to me that it would work both ways. From what I read more than 400'000 Swiss nationals live within the EU. They will all need a visum then?
Most countries have a system broadly comparable to Switzerland's C (and other) permits.
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  #2834  
Old 12.02.2015, 11:43
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Most countries have a system broadly comparable to Switzerland's C (and other) permits.
If Swiss nationals will need to apply for a "non-EU" visum to work and live in the EU, it will limit their possibilities in a big way. Strangely the press does not seem to care much of the Swiss abroad, although it is a huge group.
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  #2835  
Old 12.02.2015, 11:46
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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If CH introduces contingents for EU citizens, will the EU then also cancel free movement of CH citizens to the EU as per the bilateral treaties? It seems logical to me that it would work both ways. From what I read more than 400'000 Swiss nationals live within the EU. They will all need a visum then?
Only the ones who are not dual nationals.

(i.e. very few)

Tom
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  #2836  
Old 12.02.2015, 11:47
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Switzerland will be concentrating on cutting deals with Germany, France, Italy and Austria directly, as most of our exports go there.
a significant percentage of those "exports" are also manufactured in Germany, France, Italy and Austria. a strong CHF and the termination of FMOP threatens that entire arrangement, particularly the strong CHF.

what will be most interesting to watch will be the impact on pension funding.
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  #2837  
Old 12.02.2015, 12:10
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Only the ones who are not dual nationals.

(i.e. very few)

Tom
There are quite a few Swiss-only or Swiss-Non-EU citizens living in the EU. I'm one of them...and have met many, many more.

Many Swiss have gone to other EU countries for work, and don't hold an EU passport.
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  #2838  
Old 12.02.2015, 12:16
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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As far as I understand the press announcement yesterday, they needed the time to get the various interest groups in Switzerland in line with the policy they've just announced. Also, it's pretty clear the EU won't move even an iota in terms of free movement (even though they're much more forthcoming when dealing with other countries), so the talks are just damage control anyway. Free movement of people is likely to be gone in 2017, the rest will still be here in some form or another.

It's not like the EU doesn't do compromises - yesterday they signed an agreement with the UK, allowing the latter full access to the Schengen info database without forcing the UK to join. This goes against the EU's "all or nothing" rethoric and shows that that's just a facade and they can't agree on anything, even when member states are involved.

Switzerland will be concentrating on cutting deals with Germany, France, Italy and Austria directly, as most of our exports go there. They'll also likely resume talks for a free trade agreement with the US and some Asian states.

So the future most certainly doesn't look as bleak as some here think / claim to think. I'm pretty much convinced that this whole process serves the best interests of this country.
About "EU won't move even an iota in terms of free movement (even though they're much more forthcoming when dealing with other countries)" do you have a source for "EU making changes to free movement for other countries"?
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  #2839  
Old 12.02.2015, 12:28
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Many Swiss have gone to other EU countries for work, and don't hold an EU passport.
ususally not for very long - in some EU countries you can obtain citizenship after 5 years or so. I know quite a few Swiss with dual nationality.

Also, we'll be needing the Swiss who live abroad back home now, so no - not many people care about whether they can stay or not. It's, however, extremely unlikely that the EU will kick them out - they're already experiencing massive brain-drain, so kicking out 400'000 people who are, for a large part, highly skilled professionals, would be absolutely insane. If they do, however, I'm sure Switzerland will be very happy to return the favor and replace 400'000 EU nationals in Switzerland with those 400'000 Swiss coming home.
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  #2840  
Old 12.02.2015, 13:04
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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ususally not for very long - in some EU countries you can obtain citizenship after 5 years or so. I know quite a few Swiss with dual nationality.

Also, we'll be needing the Swiss who live abroad back home now, so no - not many people care about whether they can stay or not. It's, however, extremely unlikely that the EU will kick them out - they're already experiencing massive brain-drain, so kicking out 400'000 people who are, for a large part, highly skilled professionals, would be absolutely insane. If they do, however, I'm sure Switzerland will be very happy to return the favor and replace 400'000 EU nationals in Switzerland with those 400'000 Swiss coming home.
About "in some EU countries you can obtain citizenship after 5 years or so." Surely a real Swiss would not do this?

About "we'll be needing the Swiss who live abroad back home now" Have you considered the unlikely possibility that they work abroad for good reasons?
Examples;
  • Better life style
  • Skill set does not match Swiss job market

If the EU negotiation does not work out then we are likely to see more skilled Swiss researchers heading to better funded foreign research projects?
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