English Forum Switzerland

English Forum Switzerland (https://www.englishforum.ch/forum.php)
-   Swiss politics/news (https://www.englishforum.ch/swiss-politics-news/)
-   -   Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration] (https://www.englishforum.ch/swiss-politics-news/124269-masseneinwanderung-stoppen-initiative-limit-immigration.html)

st2lemans 10.12.2017 12:28

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by greenmount (Post 2884099)
Will those who shout FU, EU accept the salaries some employers are only able to offer? What is preferable - kill the entire sector?

Yes.

The problem in Ticino is that many Italian companies have moved here with their workers and wages, we'd be better off to be rid of them. :msnsick:

Tom

greenmount 10.12.2017 12:42

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by suissa (Post 2884104)
I mean, it is a tricky point and guess there are lot of different opinions, very respectabe all: I personally don't like the situation in London (and I mention this one place only because I saw it first hand! not wishing to diminish a place or other...). At that time, believe not much changed, people working in hospitality and gastro are in many cases people offered such low salaries that income depends a lot on the tips. The effect is that you have a lot of people unemployed and getting benefits while 'fresh' people comes in to work at yet lower salary. Not good, really, those conditions would be accepted by nobody if it wasn't because they're there to learn English for a few months or years.

Yes, but look at this matter from a different angle - how affordable some services or products have, thus, become? Travelling (not only for business but the so-called city breaks, weekend breaks you name it), also dining out, eating out day in and day out, renovating buildings, apartments etc, delegating our house chores to other people so we can enjoy more other things or have time for self-development......would not be possible at this scale if it weren't for cheap(er) labour. I'm afraid it is a necessary "evil" if we want a certain level for other things. Or, we should all downsize, live more self-dependantly or more sustainable. My guess is that people won't be that happy either. It goes against every marketing campaign, every advertisement and media product, it simply goes against the times.
The transition to (self)sustainable models will probably happen one day, but it won't be easy.

Now, how many times did I read here tips and tricks on shopping abroad, eating out abroad etc. It shows we all want the better deal without thinking much of the effects our economic decision will have. When it comes to discussions about immigration we are pointing out only a part of the problem, and not even the cause, at that.

t3m 10.12.2017 13:12

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by st2lemans (Post 2884108)
The problem in Ticino is that many Italian companies have moved here with their workers and wages, we'd be better off to be rid of them. :msnsick:

It'd be better to control those companies, impose sanctions if necessary and in case of persistence, then get rid of them.

t3m 10.12.2017 13:18

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by greenmount (Post 2884099)
Will those who shout FU, EU accept the salaries some employers are only able to offer?

Which is always the lowest possible in the wage agreements?

suissa 10.12.2017 13:29

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by greenmount (Post 2884115)
Yes, but look at this matter from a different angle - how affordable some services or products have, thus, become? Travelling (not only for business but the so-called city breaks, weekend breaks you name it), also dining out, eating out day in and day out, renovating buildings, apartments etc, delegating our house chores to other people so we can enjoy more other things or have time for self-development......would not be possible at this scale if it weren't for cheap(er) labour. I'm afraid it is a necessary "evil" if we want a certain level for other things. Or, we should all downsize, live more self-dependantly or more sustainable. My guess is that people won't be that happy either. It goes against every marketing campaign, every advertisement and media product, it simply goes against the times.
The transition to (self)sustainable models will probably happen one day, but it won't be easy.

Now, how many times did I read here tips and tricks on shopping abroad, eating out abroad etc. It shows we all want the better deal without thinking much of the effects our economic decision will have. When it comes to discussions about immigration we are pointing out only a part of the problem, and not even the cause, at that.

I see your point Greenmount, in my view you are right in many things. I also don't like the impossibility to get some reasonable help at home or the high prices (and even so getting bad customer service!). But also not the extreme of two class societies with very low wages and hard work for some, very high taxes for others to pay a crowd of unemployed that actually, want to work but see the jobs going to disadvantaged people accepting year over year yet lower wages. I guess a mid point is needed, extremes are equally wrong, to my eyes.


Quote:

Originally Posted by t3m (Post 2884125)
It'd be better to control those companies, impose sanctions if necessary and in case of persistence, then get rid of them.

That is a possibility. Whether this can be implemented without violating some "free market" law is an open question to me.


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 21:24.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0