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  #901  
Old 09.02.2014, 22:54
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Re: results on 9 Feb 14

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What the hell you are talking ? Who ever told you i am Swiss !!!

I am really against this law but i think it is nice if they apply it only for special people such as the Assassin once, i think then we will live more in peace

Be careful we are two
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  #902  
Old 09.02.2014, 22:54
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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How can existing C permits be affected? For example: Do you mean that if someone is unemployed for a certain period that they C permit would be revoked?


If some owns a Swiss AG company and pays himslef a salary and has a C permit than they should be OK?
It does not say. It does not say L, B, or C, self-employed, unemployed, or anything else.*

Please read the text of the initiative (linked in this post). Run it through Google Translate if you have to.

It does not give any details - none. Again, this is typical for such referenda. If it passes, the legislature is charged with working out the details (and to do that, there have to be some negotiations with the EU as this would violate the current set of bilateral agreements.)

Until they have done that, there is no way of knowing what the final results will be or who they will affect and how. We can sit here and guess all night but nobody knows, not even the people who proposed it or the people who voted on it.

*It does say that cross-border commuting is to be reined in, but that's the only provision which might conceivably relate to one particular category of permit.
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  #903  
Old 09.02.2014, 22:55
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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How can existing C permits be affected? For example: Do you mean that if someone is unemployed for a certain period that they C permit would be revoked?


If some owns a Swiss AG company and pays himslef a salary and has a C permit than they should be OK?
Ownership of a company is irrelevant, shareholders don't need to be registered which is the main point of an AG / SA being anonymous .

We really don't know...........watch this space
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  #904  
Old 09.02.2014, 22:55
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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How can existing C permits be affected? For example: Do you mean that if someone is unemployed for a certain period that they C permit would be revoked?


If some owns a Swiss AG company and pays himslef a salary and has a C permit than they should be OK?
So far as I understand the SVP text it talks about quotas in future years; cancelling a C permit is currently quite difficult and requires proof of major failures like serious drug dealing, naughties with daughters of Bunderat members, etc.
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  #905  
Old 09.02.2014, 22:57
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Re: results on 9 Feb 14

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So, maybe I am stupid, but I make a straight calculation: if they complain that foreigners are too many BUT the unemployment is only 3.5 % (and half of this is made by foreigner unemployed, which makes 1.75% of unemployed Swiss people), in my humble opinion it means that those 20+% are creating jobs aka income aka GDP that otherwise would not exist. How would having less foreigners (if you exclude the 1.75% that seems to create the unemployment) affect Switzerland in a positive way?

Am I missing something here?
one thing: the "yes" vote wasn't won on economic arguments.
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  #906  
Old 09.02.2014, 22:57
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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It does not say. It does not say L, B, or C, self-employed, unemployed, or anything else.*

Please read the text of the initiative (linked in this post). Run it through Google Translate if you have to.

It does not give any details - none. Again, this is typical for such referenda. If it passes, the legislature is charged with working out the details (and to do that, there have to be some negotiations with the EU as this would violate the current set of bilateral agreements.)

Until they have done that, there is no way of knowing what the final results will be or who they will affect and how. We can sit here and guess all night but nobody knows, not even the people who proposed it or the people who voted on it.

*It does say that cross-border commuting is to be reined in, but that's the only provision which might conceivably relate to one particular category of permit.
About "or the people who voted on it." - this is the major tragedy of this whole farce....
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  #907  
Old 09.02.2014, 23:00
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Re: results on 9 Feb 14

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So, maybe I am stupid, but I make a straight calculation: if they complain that foreigners are too many BUT the unemployment is only 3.5 % (and half of this is made by foreigner unemployed, which makes 1.75% of unemployed Swiss people), in my humble opinion it means that those 20+% are creating jobs aka income aka GDP that otherwise would not exist. How would having less foreigners (if you exclude the 1.75% that seems to create the unemployment) affect Switzerland in a positive way?

Am I missing something here?
Just one thing; you're looking at this from a sensible, reasoned point of view.

You need to stop doing that, then this all makes sense.
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  #908  
Old 09.02.2014, 23:00
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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About "or the people who voted on it." - this is the major tragedy of this whole farce....
If you say so - again though, this lack of detail at this stage is absolutely typical of the referendum process. Details get ironed out later.
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  #909  
Old 09.02.2014, 23:01
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Re: results on 9 Feb 14

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one thing: the "yes" vote wasn't won on economic arguments.
I feel that majority voted because there was nothing better to do on gloomy Sunday afternoon
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  #910  
Old 09.02.2014, 23:02
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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...cancelling a C permit is currently quite difficult
But it expires every five years, renewing it is currently a routine procedure but that could easily change. Anything could happen.
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  #911  
Old 09.02.2014, 23:03
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

I just hope that something good will come out of this, but 2 of the 3 parties involved in this are more or less incompetent, EU and SVP
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  #912  
Old 09.02.2014, 23:04
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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If you say so - again though, this lack of detail at this stage is absolutely typical of the referendum process. Details get ironed out later.
That seems stupid.

Surely that means there could well be people who voted for or against the issue, but who actually don't approve of the final draft?
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  #913  
Old 09.02.2014, 23:04
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Re: results on 9 Feb 14

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I feel that majority voted because there was nothing better to do on gloomy Sunday afternoon
Actually, it was sunny and warm. We even had lunch outside.

Anyway, most people voted days or weeks ago.

Tom
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  #914  
Old 09.02.2014, 23:04
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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If you say so - again though, this lack of detail at this stage is absolutely typical of the referendum process. Details get ironed out later.
And it may well be that the details provide a result which is quite different from what the voters expected........
Schadenfreude ......
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Old 09.02.2014, 23:04
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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I just hope that something good will come out of this, but 2 of the 3 parties involved in this are more or less incompetent, EU and SVP
Lesser of two evils. One is more evil than the other.
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  #916  
Old 09.02.2014, 23:07
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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That seems stupid.

Surely that means there could well be people who voted for or against the issue, but who actually don't approve of the final draft?
Well if people are too stupid to read the text of the initiative and make an effort to understand it then they deserve what they get at the end of the day??

BTW, there is no process to check if voters approve of the final draft
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  #917  
Old 09.02.2014, 23:07
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

If British and German population were asked to vote on freedom of movement in the EU, I'm not sure the result would be that different from the one voiced by swiss population.
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  #918  
Old 09.02.2014, 23:08
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Well if people are too stupid to read the text of the initiative and make an effort to understand it then they deserve what they get at the end of the day??

BTW, there is no process to check if voters approve of the final draft
Except in this case, the voters aren't the ones who suffer the brunt of the draft.
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  #919  
Old 09.02.2014, 23:11
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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If British and German population were asked to vote on freedom of movement in the EU, I'm not sure the result would be that different from the one voiced by swiss population.
True, but it wouldn't necessitate laws to be made to reflect that. Decisions like this are left to those who are qualified to make them, as they should be.
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  #920  
Old 09.02.2014, 23:11
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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That seems stupid.

Surely that means there could well be people who voted for or against the issue, but who actually don't approve of the final draft?
... to the extent that they would in fact have preferred the other option? It's possible, but probably pretty marginal. If it happens on a large enough scale, you can always start a second referendum to repeal or adjust the new legislation.

The alternative is that you hammer out all the details first, then go and ask the voters (or as a proxy: tell them what you've done and ask them to reelect you to office), which is in fact the normal way of doing business. The whole point of a referendum is that it's the other way round for a change.
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