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  #1041  
Old 10.02.2014, 09:55
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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The Romanians and Bulgarians influx never really met expectations of huge masses crossing the boarders. That should be celebrated in that politicians and their like got it wrong and up to now it has not been a problem since they were given the option.
It's not what french politician and press say. There is even an incitment program to return for roms'
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  #1042  
Old 10.02.2014, 09:57
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

Wait, isn't this just reverting to the system prior to the 2000 accord with the EU? I don't recall the Swiss being regarded as rampant, racist xenophobes when we came here in '95 and I don't think that they have changed much in the last 20 years or so, probably gone the other way, if anything.

Anything which is a big FU to the EU is fine by me.
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  #1043  
Old 10.02.2014, 09:57
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

My understanding of the situation is if it is as dramatical and restrictive as people have fear of, big companies like novartis, Roche, Nestlé will move elsewhere. They all need the expertise of people from outside of Switzerland and there is no way they will be able to find the amount of people needed to fill all the positions.

In term of banking, Switzerland isn't as special as it used to be, I am pretty sure other countries would be more than happy to accommodate big money holders.
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  #1044  
Old 10.02.2014, 10:00
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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The Romanians and Bulgarians influx never really met expectations of huge masses crossing the boarders. That should be celebrated in that politicians and their like got it wrong and up to now it has not been a problem since they were given the option.
I'm interest in the "how it was measured" though-
Because if anyone claims that, the measurement is everything.

For example, one can go to France, by car without being accounted for.
Also, I doubt that those people would easily register to any official stuff and I also doubt that the government would easily publish those statistics.

Anyway, i'm not saying good or bad, i'm interested on how you would measure that if you would have to say something accurate.
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  #1045  
Old 10.02.2014, 10:00
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Yes, but the question is whether renewing a permit will be considered the same as having a new permit issued I.e. Will existing permit holders get priority over new permit applications and applications from asylum seekers?
That's an implementation detail that has yet to be decided.

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My understanding of the situation is if it is as dramatical and restrictive as people have fear of, big companies like novartis, Roche, Nestlé will move elsewhere. They all need the expertise of people from outside of Switzerland and there is no way they will be able to find the amount of people needed to fill all the positions.

In term of banking, Switzerland isn't as special as it used to be, I am pretty sure other countries would be more than happy to accommodate big money holders.
Singapore has its own anti-immigration issues to deal with. The number of politically-stable tax-friendly countries is limited.

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So what happened is that the Swiss public have decided that their government should have a meeting (at some point in the next 3 years) with the EU.

That is it.

Last edited by lost_inbroad; 10.02.2014 at 10:11. Reason: Merged posts..are you turning into Wolli now?
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  #1046  
Old 10.02.2014, 10:12
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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My understanding of the situation is if it is as dramatical and restrictive as people have fear of, big companies like novartis, Roche, Nestlé will move elsewhere. They all need the expertise of people from outside of Switzerland and there is no way they will be able to find the amount of people needed to fill all the positions.

In term of banking, Switzerland isn't as special as it used to be, I am pretty sure other countries would be more than happy to accommodate big money holders.
Nil, they were able to find plenty of non-Swiss employees prior to the free movement accord. This will change nothing as far as the big firms are concerned.
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  #1047  
Old 10.02.2014, 10:15
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

This thread appears to be filled with FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt for those unfamiliar with the acronym), and I admit we're left with an amount of uncertainty and doubt regarding this vote. However, there are those of us who are basically instilling the fear part through constantly painting the situation as a worse than worst case scenario. It's as if some of you would have us believe that we're all going to be arrested in dawn raids and dispatched to our countries of origin in the back military cargo planes under armed guard.

The truth of the matter here is that the Bundesrat are going to tread very carefully with this, and the eventual implementation is likely going to be considerably watered down. I say eventually as I can see this one being dragged out for a while before it finally comes into force.

Quite frankly there's way too much at stake for this to be implemented in the draconian style that some of you have implied. Due to the need for switzerland to maintain relations with the EU by the time this comes to pass it'll probably be a mere toothless formality with regards to EU citizens.

By the way the GF parents said they would vote yes, and I always thought they liked me.
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  #1048  
Old 10.02.2014, 10:18
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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The Romanians and Bulgarians influx never really met expectations of huge masses crossing the boarders. That should be celebrated in that politicians and their like got it wrong and up to now it has not been a problem since they were given the option.
That is true, but I suppose you know that the Roma citizens of these countries (or any other country, as a matter of fact) are not really wanted anywhere and that many politicians across EU seized the moment to monger fear of a gypsy "invasion". Funny thing is that the gypsies immigrated/migrated long before the work restrictions were lifted, so it seems hypocritical to say the least that they became such a huge problem only when Romanians and Bulgarians got full access to the E.U. labour market.
Anyway, I don't see the relevance of this issue with the current topic. :roll eyes:
Would we let the poor Roma alone for a while? There is enough anti-Roma sentiment across the continent, just let them be...they are the favourite and easiest target for any incompetent politician.
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  #1049  
Old 10.02.2014, 10:21
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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By the way the GF parents said they would vote yes, and I always thought they liked me.
To ease the pain in the long run, trade the GF.
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  #1050  
Old 10.02.2014, 10:21
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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This will change nothing as far as the big firms are concerned.
It will change things for smaller companies though
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  #1051  
Old 10.02.2014, 10:24
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Rather the other way around. See here

http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/wirtscha...story/12848681
Well, although I'm not happy about the outcome of yesterday's voting: The president of the Economiesuisse always seems to exaggerate a little bit.
But I'm happy to see he's still well after the Abzockerinitiative and all the suffering the swiss economy had to go through since then.

This is not the first initiative to fear people. But it would be the first one to actually justify all these fears.




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  #1052  
Old 10.02.2014, 10:24
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

This is not xenophobia. It's more NIMBY-ism.....AKA nationalistic viewpoints.

Let's face it, Switzerland has deflation and a horrendous 3.2% unemployment and people are worried.....in the past 5 years, people have actually lost jobs due to the recession globally and even though it's not that noticeable in Switzerland, the knee-jerk reaction comes along and is easily massaged.

Let's look at the UK after they let in people from territories they previously "liberated". West Indians - stealing our jobs! Asians - opening up corner shops stealing our jobs! Polish plumbers - stealing our jobs!

They're not really. They're making and taking opportunities....doing jobs that the local population deems below them.

I don't think many Swiss working doing menial work like cleaning in kitchens, right? Well they should not complain when an immigrant comes and is prepared to do that job.

One thing's clear for me - it's been a good marketing campaign this time....just like the Minaret initiative which changed what exactly? Local zoning laws were doing a good job.
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  #1053  
Old 10.02.2014, 10:24
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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It will change things for smaller companies though
How exactly?
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  #1054  
Old 10.02.2014, 10:24
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

How hard could it be to scrape up 100,000 signatures to initiate a referendum to have Ticino kicked out of the Swiss Confederation? Problems (present and future) solved.
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  #1055  
Old 10.02.2014, 10:26
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Well, no, especially since it's quite economically stupid to do so, but why should the EU continue such agreements when freedom of movement is key and wouldn't be tolerated from any other member country? Reaping the consequence of the action is really required as if the EU lets CH off all others will follow.
Of most importance is the likely British referendum on EU membership to be held in 2017. If the EU lets Switzerland off the hook now, Britain will surely vote out. The whole existence of the EU will be under question after that.
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  #1056  
Old 10.02.2014, 10:27
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

Ignoring and stopping scaremongering while waiting what will really happen seems to be like a reasonable solution right now. Or what? Should all call SVP hot line and inquire about each individual case separately?
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  #1057  
Old 10.02.2014, 10:32
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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How exactly?
It will be harder for smaller companies to find German speaking workers. Switzerland loses attractiveness for German speakers.
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  #1058  
Old 10.02.2014, 10:35
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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It will be harder for smaller companies to find German speaking workers. Switzerland loses attractiveness for German speakers.
there were plenty of Austrians and Germans working here before free movement.
I think think that much will change, except for the Swiss having the feeling that they are in control of immigration - which is not a bad thing.
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  #1059  
Old 10.02.2014, 10:35
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

Maybe a comparison to the white australian policy
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This is not xenophobia. It's more NIMBY-ism.....AKA nationalistic viewpoints.

Let's face it, Switzerland has deflation and a horrendous 3.2% unemployment and people are worried.....in the past 5 years, people have actually lost jobs due to the recession globally and even though it's not that noticeable in Switzerland, the knee-jerk reaction comes along and is easily massaged.

Let's look at the UK after they let in people from territories they previously "liberated". West Indians - stealing our jobs! Asians - opening up corner shops stealing our jobs! Polish plumbers - stealing our jobs!

They're not really. They're making and taking opportunities....doing jobs that the local population deems below them.

I don't think many Swiss working doing menial work like cleaning in kitchens, right? Well they should not complain when an immigrant comes and is prepared to do that job.

One thing's clear for me - it's been a good marketing campaign this time....just like the Minaret initiative which changed what exactly? Local zoning laws were doing a good job.
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  #1060  
Old 10.02.2014, 10:36
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Quite frankly there's way too much at stake for this to be implemented in the draconian style that some of you have implied. Due to the need for switzerland to maintain relations with the EU by the time this comes to pass it'll probably be a mere toothless formality with regards to EU citizens.
Quite frankly there's too much at stake for this to be voted "yes"... oh, no, wait!

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By the way the GF parents said they would vote yes, and I always thought they liked me.
Yes, but it isn't nice young chaps that they want to keep out, is it. You're OK. It's those foreign-looking types that just sponge...
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