English Forum Switzerland

English Forum Switzerland (https://www.englishforum.ch/forum.php)
-   Swiss politics/news (https://www.englishforum.ch/swiss-politics-news/)
-   -   Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration] (https://www.englishforum.ch/swiss-politics-news/124269-masseneinwanderung-stoppen-initiative-limit-immigration.html)

jerallie 02.09.2011 21:52

Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]
 
So these signs are ALL over the Bern/Thun area and I wonder who they are actually targeting? The website talks about controlling people coming into Switzerland, but they don't go into much detail. Anyone know more details about this?

Caleb 02.09.2011 22:51

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen
 
It's the newest SVP campaign. In case you are not familiar with them yet, SVP is the far-right wing party the motto of which is "don't let foreigners in".

KeinFranzösisch 02.09.2011 23:36

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen
 
they are against mass immigration because Switzerland has lost control of its borders, immigrants are taking jobs from Swiss citizens, English is replacing Swiss languages at Swiss companies, etc etc etc.

Some people try to sugar coat it by saying they just don't like muslims or they just don't like Turks, but my perception is that the SVP want to keep Switzerland for "real" Swiss people and, given the chance, would be all for a good ol' fashioned ethnic cleansing.

cannut 02.09.2011 23:47

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jerallie (Post 1325341)
So these signs are ALL over the Bern/Thun area and I wonder who they are actually targeting? The website talks about controlling people coming into Switzerland, but they don't go into much detail. Anyone know more details about this?

Not you !You are OK, but all the other American / Canadian / Mexican/Portuguese/Spaniards--one sec I have to go to the bath room;):D

jerallie 03.09.2011 00:27

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen
 
Interesting.....the first line from the website talks about a stabbing and crime. Are they using crime as a smoke screen for a hidden agenda to get rid of us all?

tom tulpe 03.09.2011 00:39

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jerallie (Post 1325482)
Interesting.....the first line from the website talks about a stabbing and crime. Are they using crime as a smoke screen for a hidden agenda to get rid of us all?

Nah, not all of us, only those who go on the social, take jobs that could be done by Swiss people, speak no German, speak standard German, look like they don't belong here, or are otherwise undesirable. So that's all right then.

cannut 03.09.2011 00:41

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jerallie (Post 1325482)
Interesting.....the first line from the website talks about a stabbing and crime. Are they using crime as a smoke screen for a hidden agenda to get rid of us all?

"The only thing you have to fear is fear itself ":)

Anthony1406 03.09.2011 00:43

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jerallie (Post 1325482)
Interesting.....the first line from the website talks about a stabbing and crime. Are they using crime as a smoke screen for a hidden agenda to get rid of us all?


thats because in other headlines, CH has lost its safest country status, GE is apperently turning into the Bronx (was a headline in 20 min I think)

so it is easy to use it. The are against illegal immigration which to a certain extend I agree with I must admit.

cannut 03.09.2011 01:02

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony1406 (Post 1325498)
thats because in other headlines, CH has lost its safest country status, GE is apperently turning into the Bronx (was a headline in 20 min I think)

so it is easy to use it. The are against illegal immigration which to a certain extend I agree with I must admit.

I am against all Illegal activity , except when I am doing it :eek:

yjt 03.09.2011 01:21

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen
 
Since there has been so much talk about this on here I thought I'd have a qucik look to see what they want. I thought this was only rhetoric for the elections but they're trying to get an initiative going.
I've said a couple of times on here that I'd only get the Swiss pass as an insurance policy. Well if this goes through I'll be applying to become Swiss straight away.

It's a stupid badly thought out initiative but it will probably be accepted as the Swiss will only think this will mean all those criminal-job-taking foreigners won't be let in.

The initiative wants to limit the amount of foreigners of all categories coming to Switzerland. This includes asylum seekers and cross border workers and Swiss workers will need to be prioritised. This will undoubtedly weaken Switzerland's competitiveness. I'm sure the likes of Google will love to be dictated to regarding who they can employ. They'll just close up and move to Dublin which will cost Swiss jobs.

They mention there is a possibility that the right to unlimited residency and social security benefits could be limited which means you could work here for 35 years pay your unemployment benefits and the Swiss will reserve the right to kick you out straight away without giving you any unemployment benefits.

Naturally this will mean cancelling the Schengen agreement (which in turn will cancel all bilateral contracts) and as they want to limit asylum seekers they will also need to cancel the declaration of human rights.

And what I find hilarious yet typical is at the end they say the law will regulate the details so as always the SVP passes the buck on to others to find out how to implement this.

Anyway I'll be applying as soon as possible as probably many others will before the SVP bring this poster out again and try to make it even harder to become Swiss by demanding that you live here for 50 years or something

PaddyG 03.09.2011 02:05

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen
 
They're basically saying there should be a restriction on uncontrolled immigration. Much like the governments of Britain, France, USA, Germany, Italy etc etc

travnett 03.09.2011 02:32

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by yjt (Post 1325519)
I've said a couple of times on here that I'd only get the Swiss pass as an insurance policy. Well if this goes through I'll be applying to become Swiss straight away.

The initiative wants to limit the amount of foreigners of all categories coming to Switzerland. This includes asylum seekers and cross border workers and Swiss workers will need to be prioritised. This will undoubtedly weaken Switzerland's competitiveness. I'm sure the likes of Google will love to be dictated to regarding who they can employ. They'll just close up and move to Dublin which will cost Swiss jobs.

Naturally this will mean cancelling the Schengen agreement (which in turn will cancel all bilateral contracts) and as they want to limit asylum seekers they will also need to cancel the declaration of human rights.

And what I find hilarious yet typical is at the end they say the law will regulate the details so as always the SVP passes the buck on to others to find out how to implement this.

Anyway I'll be applying as soon as possible as probably many others will

By all means apply for citizenship as a naturalized person but don't you know that the SVP are against Naturalized people as well i.e YOU if you get a swiss passport?? They want a system where it is distinguished between who is a true swiss or a naturalized person in terms of crime committed, unemployment, social etc..

I find it so hypocritical especially when they use a Turkish naturalized women in their newest ad campaign.

http://www.thelocal.ch/915/20110822/

There is a mentality change between the older and younger swiss people. All my Swiss friends have no problem with foreigners in Switzerland whereas my work colleges (who are older) are always complaining about foreigners in Switzerland which is ridiculous considering some of them are only 50% or 25% Swiss themselves!!!

I'm not sure if the SVP realize that if they are successful in their campaign that it will ultimately have repercussions for the tens of thousands swiss who are living as immigrants in other EU countries!

yjt 03.09.2011 02:45

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen
 
I've just had a quick read the arguments they have and what I said about social security is apparently not true. They say you will only have the right to this benefits after a certain number of years.

I still find the explanations relatively vague and some what contradictory. For example above they don't define how many years this should be. They also want to limit the amount of asylum seekers Switzerland accepts yet they say no legitimate asylum seeker will be turned away. They say they're mainly talking about people who get refused asylum but for what ever reason can't be returned to their home country. I don't see how they can guarantee that no ligit asylum seeker will be turned away if they have a limit on how many they are prepared to take. The problems with those who are left in limbo surely needs to be resolved through other means?

That the SVP wishes to control which foreigners are let in is I suppose understandable. What I don't like though are these vague initiatives which leave out all the relevant details so you have no idea what the law will look like. I mean we still don't know what crimes are punishable with expulsion.

It's also all very well talking about how the foreigner proportion is one of the highest in the western world but here the naturalisation criteria is also one of the toughest in the western world.

Does any one have data on the percent of foreign born living in countries? I feel this is the only way to fairly compare the foreign population among various countries.

yjt 03.09.2011 02:56

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by travnett (Post 1325546)
By all means apply for citizenship as a naturalized person but don't you know that the SVP are against Naturalized people as well i.e YOU if you get a swiss passport?? They want a system where it is distinguished between who is a true swiss or a naturalized person in terms of crime committed, unemployment, social etc..

Yeah I know. They'd also like to have a probation period for naturalised Swiss. I feel with the anti-immigration/foreigner policies which are being talked about there should be a massive rise in naturalisation applications which will inevitably mean a possible probation period will be talked about again.

What I really don't like is the constant distinction between 'Eidgenossen' and 'paper Swiss' whenever something bad happens. The best example is the Swiss football team. All the papers were quick to heap praise on the U-17 and U-21 teams when they did well at the European championships despite many of the players having foreign origins but at the same time should the team have a bad run the passion and willingness of these 'paper Swiss'. You can't have it both ways but anyway this is going off topic

st2lemans 03.09.2011 03:06

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tom tulpe (Post 1325495)
speak no German

I know plenty of "genuine" Swiss who speak no German beyond saying various phrases from "Hogan's Heroes". :eek:

Tom

cannut 03.09.2011 04:19

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by st2lemans (Post 1325557)
I know plenty of "genuine" Swiss who speak no German beyond saying various phrases from "Hogan's Heroes". :eek:

Tom

"Very Interresting" Tom:msntongue:

cannut 03.09.2011 04:37

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen
 
http://canadaonline.about.com/od/imm...eportation.htm
http://www.torontosun.com/2011/06/13...legal-migrants
http://www.governing.com/news/federa...Criminals.html
http://www.governing.com/news/federa...Criminals.html
http://www.thelocal.se/27134/20100610/
Bad Bad Switzerland :rolleyes:

22 yards 03.09.2011 05:40

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen
 
The SVP initiative is about a whole lot more than illegal immigration, and you know it. The clue is in the title: Masseneinwanderung.

Louis Wu 03.09.2011 08:35

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen
 
I see it as the usual tripe about finding a scapegoat (preferably an outsider) to blame for all the apparent ills of the country. Along the lines of "It would be paradise here if it weren't for <insert scapegoat here>" and then get people to sign up for it. A very short sighted or narrow minded viewpoint. The whole problem is not immigration, it's learning to cope with a changing world. Most countries are now facing up to the reality of mixing cultures, some with more or less success. I think it's somehow ingrained into human nature to mistrust foreigners - i.e. those from that other tribe on the far side of the valley, the ones that keep thier animals in pens and don't roam about hunting and gathering, as proper people ought to.

KeinFranzösisch 03.09.2011 09:01

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PaddyG (Post 1325542)
They're basically saying there should be a restriction on uncontrolled immigration. Much like the governments of Britain, France, USA, Germany, Italy etc etc


right... "basically". But they are going the extra step to create the aire of paranoia and xenophobia to go with it.

In the US right now, that aire started with the Republicans saying that "Muslims are terrorists." Then they shifted that focus to, "terrorists could infiltrate our southern border,". Then that shifted to "our southern border is being infiltrated by brown people who could be terrorists, we should build a wall to keep them out". That in turn spawned the Minutemen defense who wanted to shoot any poor, dirty brown person headed in a northerly direction by foot.

Of course, now all the problems in the US, if you ask the anti-immigrant crowd, are because Mexicans and Central Americans are taking the jobs and living on the doll. Oh, and they're all illegal. You can apparently tell this by looking at them (I've encountered plenty of anglo-saxon illegal aliens in my life, some of them Canadian and British).

Oh yeah. And all Muslims are still terrorists.

I love paranoia. It's so tasty and stays crunchy in milk.


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 10:40.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0