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-   -   Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration] (https://www.englishforum.ch/swiss-politics-news/124269-masseneinwanderung-stoppen-initiative-limit-immigration.html)

jerallie 02.09.2011 21:52

Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]
 
So these signs are ALL over the Bern/Thun area and I wonder who they are actually targeting? The website talks about controlling people coming into Switzerland, but they don't go into much detail. Anyone know more details about this?

Caleb 02.09.2011 22:51

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen
 
It's the newest SVP campaign. In case you are not familiar with them yet, SVP is the far-right wing party the motto of which is "don't let foreigners in".

KeinFranzösisch 02.09.2011 23:36

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen
 
they are against mass immigration because Switzerland has lost control of its borders, immigrants are taking jobs from Swiss citizens, English is replacing Swiss languages at Swiss companies, etc etc etc.

Some people try to sugar coat it by saying they just don't like muslims or they just don't like Turks, but my perception is that the SVP want to keep Switzerland for "real" Swiss people and, given the chance, would be all for a good ol' fashioned ethnic cleansing.

cannut 02.09.2011 23:47

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jerallie (Post 1325341)
So these signs are ALL over the Bern/Thun area and I wonder who they are actually targeting? The website talks about controlling people coming into Switzerland, but they don't go into much detail. Anyone know more details about this?

Not you !You are OK, but all the other American / Canadian / Mexican/Portuguese/Spaniards--one sec I have to go to the bath room;):D

jerallie 03.09.2011 00:27

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen
 
Interesting.....the first line from the website talks about a stabbing and crime. Are they using crime as a smoke screen for a hidden agenda to get rid of us all?

tom tulpe 03.09.2011 00:39

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jerallie (Post 1325482)
Interesting.....the first line from the website talks about a stabbing and crime. Are they using crime as a smoke screen for a hidden agenda to get rid of us all?

Nah, not all of us, only those who go on the social, take jobs that could be done by Swiss people, speak no German, speak standard German, look like they don't belong here, or are otherwise undesirable. So that's all right then.

cannut 03.09.2011 00:41

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jerallie (Post 1325482)
Interesting.....the first line from the website talks about a stabbing and crime. Are they using crime as a smoke screen for a hidden agenda to get rid of us all?

"The only thing you have to fear is fear itself ":)

Anthony1406 03.09.2011 00:43

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jerallie (Post 1325482)
Interesting.....the first line from the website talks about a stabbing and crime. Are they using crime as a smoke screen for a hidden agenda to get rid of us all?


thats because in other headlines, CH has lost its safest country status, GE is apperently turning into the Bronx (was a headline in 20 min I think)

so it is easy to use it. The are against illegal immigration which to a certain extend I agree with I must admit.

cannut 03.09.2011 01:02

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony1406 (Post 1325498)
thats because in other headlines, CH has lost its safest country status, GE is apperently turning into the Bronx (was a headline in 20 min I think)

so it is easy to use it. The are against illegal immigration which to a certain extend I agree with I must admit.

I am against all Illegal activity , except when I am doing it :eek:

yjt 03.09.2011 01:21

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen
 
Since there has been so much talk about this on here I thought I'd have a qucik look to see what they want. I thought this was only rhetoric for the elections but they're trying to get an initiative going.
I've said a couple of times on here that I'd only get the Swiss pass as an insurance policy. Well if this goes through I'll be applying to become Swiss straight away.

It's a stupid badly thought out initiative but it will probably be accepted as the Swiss will only think this will mean all those criminal-job-taking foreigners won't be let in.

The initiative wants to limit the amount of foreigners of all categories coming to Switzerland. This includes asylum seekers and cross border workers and Swiss workers will need to be prioritised. This will undoubtedly weaken Switzerland's competitiveness. I'm sure the likes of Google will love to be dictated to regarding who they can employ. They'll just close up and move to Dublin which will cost Swiss jobs.

They mention there is a possibility that the right to unlimited residency and social security benefits could be limited which means you could work here for 35 years pay your unemployment benefits and the Swiss will reserve the right to kick you out straight away without giving you any unemployment benefits.

Naturally this will mean cancelling the Schengen agreement (which in turn will cancel all bilateral contracts) and as they want to limit asylum seekers they will also need to cancel the declaration of human rights.

And what I find hilarious yet typical is at the end they say the law will regulate the details so as always the SVP passes the buck on to others to find out how to implement this.

Anyway I'll be applying as soon as possible as probably many others will before the SVP bring this poster out again and try to make it even harder to become Swiss by demanding that you live here for 50 years or something

PaddyG 03.09.2011 02:05

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen
 
They're basically saying there should be a restriction on uncontrolled immigration. Much like the governments of Britain, France, USA, Germany, Italy etc etc

travnett 03.09.2011 02:32

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by yjt (Post 1325519)
I've said a couple of times on here that I'd only get the Swiss pass as an insurance policy. Well if this goes through I'll be applying to become Swiss straight away.

The initiative wants to limit the amount of foreigners of all categories coming to Switzerland. This includes asylum seekers and cross border workers and Swiss workers will need to be prioritised. This will undoubtedly weaken Switzerland's competitiveness. I'm sure the likes of Google will love to be dictated to regarding who they can employ. They'll just close up and move to Dublin which will cost Swiss jobs.

Naturally this will mean cancelling the Schengen agreement (which in turn will cancel all bilateral contracts) and as they want to limit asylum seekers they will also need to cancel the declaration of human rights.

And what I find hilarious yet typical is at the end they say the law will regulate the details so as always the SVP passes the buck on to others to find out how to implement this.

Anyway I'll be applying as soon as possible as probably many others will

By all means apply for citizenship as a naturalized person but don't you know that the SVP are against Naturalized people as well i.e YOU if you get a swiss passport?? They want a system where it is distinguished between who is a true swiss or a naturalized person in terms of crime committed, unemployment, social etc..

I find it so hypocritical especially when they use a Turkish naturalized women in their newest ad campaign.

http://www.thelocal.ch/915/20110822/

There is a mentality change between the older and younger swiss people. All my Swiss friends have no problem with foreigners in Switzerland whereas my work colleges (who are older) are always complaining about foreigners in Switzerland which is ridiculous considering some of them are only 50% or 25% Swiss themselves!!!

I'm not sure if the SVP realize that if they are successful in their campaign that it will ultimately have repercussions for the tens of thousands swiss who are living as immigrants in other EU countries!

yjt 03.09.2011 02:45

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen
 
I've just had a quick read the arguments they have and what I said about social security is apparently not true. They say you will only have the right to this benefits after a certain number of years.

I still find the explanations relatively vague and some what contradictory. For example above they don't define how many years this should be. They also want to limit the amount of asylum seekers Switzerland accepts yet they say no legitimate asylum seeker will be turned away. They say they're mainly talking about people who get refused asylum but for what ever reason can't be returned to their home country. I don't see how they can guarantee that no ligit asylum seeker will be turned away if they have a limit on how many they are prepared to take. The problems with those who are left in limbo surely needs to be resolved through other means?

That the SVP wishes to control which foreigners are let in is I suppose understandable. What I don't like though are these vague initiatives which leave out all the relevant details so you have no idea what the law will look like. I mean we still don't know what crimes are punishable with expulsion.

It's also all very well talking about how the foreigner proportion is one of the highest in the western world but here the naturalisation criteria is also one of the toughest in the western world.

Does any one have data on the percent of foreign born living in countries? I feel this is the only way to fairly compare the foreign population among various countries.

yjt 03.09.2011 02:56

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by travnett (Post 1325546)
By all means apply for citizenship as a naturalized person but don't you know that the SVP are against Naturalized people as well i.e YOU if you get a swiss passport?? They want a system where it is distinguished between who is a true swiss or a naturalized person in terms of crime committed, unemployment, social etc..

Yeah I know. They'd also like to have a probation period for naturalised Swiss. I feel with the anti-immigration/foreigner policies which are being talked about there should be a massive rise in naturalisation applications which will inevitably mean a possible probation period will be talked about again.

What I really don't like is the constant distinction between 'Eidgenossen' and 'paper Swiss' whenever something bad happens. The best example is the Swiss football team. All the papers were quick to heap praise on the U-17 and U-21 teams when they did well at the European championships despite many of the players having foreign origins but at the same time should the team have a bad run the passion and willingness of these 'paper Swiss'. You can't have it both ways but anyway this is going off topic

st2lemans 03.09.2011 03:06

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tom tulpe (Post 1325495)
speak no German

I know plenty of "genuine" Swiss who speak no German beyond saying various phrases from "Hogan's Heroes". :eek:

Tom

cannut 03.09.2011 04:19

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by st2lemans (Post 1325557)
I know plenty of "genuine" Swiss who speak no German beyond saying various phrases from "Hogan's Heroes". :eek:

Tom

"Very Interresting" Tom:msntongue:

cannut 03.09.2011 04:37

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen
 
http://canadaonline.about.com/od/imm...eportation.htm
http://www.torontosun.com/2011/06/13...legal-migrants
http://www.governing.com/news/federa...Criminals.html
http://www.governing.com/news/federa...Criminals.html
http://www.thelocal.se/27134/20100610/
Bad Bad Switzerland :rolleyes:

22 yards 03.09.2011 05:40

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen
 
The SVP initiative is about a whole lot more than illegal immigration, and you know it. The clue is in the title: Masseneinwanderung.

Louis Wu 03.09.2011 08:35

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen
 
I see it as the usual tripe about finding a scapegoat (preferably an outsider) to blame for all the apparent ills of the country. Along the lines of "It would be paradise here if it weren't for <insert scapegoat here>" and then get people to sign up for it. A very short sighted or narrow minded viewpoint. The whole problem is not immigration, it's learning to cope with a changing world. Most countries are now facing up to the reality of mixing cultures, some with more or less success. I think it's somehow ingrained into human nature to mistrust foreigners - i.e. those from that other tribe on the far side of the valley, the ones that keep thier animals in pens and don't roam about hunting and gathering, as proper people ought to.

KeinFranzösisch 03.09.2011 09:01

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PaddyG (Post 1325542)
They're basically saying there should be a restriction on uncontrolled immigration. Much like the governments of Britain, France, USA, Germany, Italy etc etc


right... "basically". But they are going the extra step to create the aire of paranoia and xenophobia to go with it.

In the US right now, that aire started with the Republicans saying that "Muslims are terrorists." Then they shifted that focus to, "terrorists could infiltrate our southern border,". Then that shifted to "our southern border is being infiltrated by brown people who could be terrorists, we should build a wall to keep them out". That in turn spawned the Minutemen defense who wanted to shoot any poor, dirty brown person headed in a northerly direction by foot.

Of course, now all the problems in the US, if you ask the anti-immigrant crowd, are because Mexicans and Central Americans are taking the jobs and living on the doll. Oh, and they're all illegal. You can apparently tell this by looking at them (I've encountered plenty of anglo-saxon illegal aliens in my life, some of them Canadian and British).

Oh yeah. And all Muslims are still terrorists.

I love paranoia. It's so tasty and stays crunchy in milk.

OSueco 03.09.2011 10:53

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cannut (Post 1325505)
I am against all Illegal activity , except when I am doing it :eek:

how is PRO illegal immigration or illegal activities? :rolleyes:

OSueco 03.09.2011 11:18

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PaddyG (Post 1325542)
They're basically saying there should be a restriction on uncontrolled immigration. Much like the governments of Britain, France, USA, Germany, Italy etc etc


There is NO LEGAL uncontrolled immigration, this is so much bull...just cheap shots of something that is already working as usual....try to understand...Switzerland is NOT EU, you can not come here and settle without having a job...

the unemployment rate is one of the lowest in europe, and e.g. at my company we have over 100 open positions, and we can't find any Swiss because there aren't any...so where does this leaves us...? tell me what we should do? Is better to outsource to another country?

so no, the foreigners are NOT taken the job from the Swiss, it's a controlled market...if a swiss was available for a position he would get it...

I do not what fantasy world people are living....:confused:

OSueco 03.09.2011 11:24

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KeinFranzösisch (Post 1325582)
are because Mexicans and Central Americans are taking the jobs and living on the doll....

...aaaaand...who is giving them the jobs? :confused: :rolleyes:

OSueco 03.09.2011 11:30

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by yjt (Post 1325552)

Does any one have data on the percent of foreign born living in countries? I feel this is the only way to fairly compare the foreign population among various countries.

OVER 700'000 swiss are living abrod:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_people

nice numbers, 10% of them can't stand it here...:rolleyes::D

Tilia 03.09.2011 11:42

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KeinFranzösisch (Post 1325582)
right... "basically". But they are going the extra step to create the aire of paranoia and xenophobia to go with it.

..............

Oh yeah. And all Muslims are still terrorists.

I love paranoia. It's so tasty and stays crunchy in milk.

And all uneducated dark-skinned parents teach their children fear of dogs.....

Mark75 03.09.2011 12:17

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OSueco (Post 1325649)
There is NO LEGAL uncontrolled immigration, this is so much bull...

Immigration from most EU countries is uncontrolled these days. There are no quotas or other restriction for citizens from those countries anymore.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OSueco (Post 1325649)
so no, the foreigners are NOT taken the job from the Swiss, it's a controlled market... if a swiss was available for a position he would get it...

It's not a controlled market as far as (most) EU citizens are concerned. An employer does not have any obligation whatsoever to hire a Swiss citizen instead of EU member citizen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OSueco (Post 1325649)
I do not what fantasy world people are living....:confused:

Same here... :rolleyes:

OSueco 03.09.2011 12:37

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark75 (Post 1325680)
Immigration from most EU countries is uncontrolled these days. There are no quotas or other restriction for citizens from those countries anymore.


It's not a controlled market as far as (most) EU citizens are concerned. An employer does not have any obligation whatsoever to hire a Swiss citizen instead of EU member citizen.


Same here... :rolleyes:

Each immigrant who has to work here has to through the process. They can not get an Ausweis without involvement of the Migrationsamt...so it's controlled.

In my case, my company had to prove that there was not somebody available in Switzerland before hiring me...

And yes there a quotas how many Ausweis that can be handed out each year...

I guess a swiss employer would hire the most qualified person...the problem for most companies...there are NOT enough qualified swiss workers...700'000 swiss are living abroad, Swiss women should not educate themselves and work, Swiss do NOT want the "bad" jobs like cleaning and construction...so where does that leave employers?

the unemployment rate is what? 2...3% - it's nothing...

tom tulpe 03.09.2011 12:39

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark75 (Post 1325680)
Immigration from most EU countries is uncontrolled these days. There are no quotas or other restriction for citizens from those countries anymore.

No, it's not. Unless you have a job or are self-employed (properly registered and all) or are a dependent of a person who has a job or is self-employed, you cannot stay beyond six months. You even need a permit to work in Switzerland if you live abroad (Grenzganger/frontalier). Quite unlike the EU where you can move anywhere you like simply because you feel like it, and where you can work wherever you bloody like (and someone hires you).

Quote:

Originally Posted by OSueco (Post 1325649)
so no, the foreigners are NOT taken the job from the Swiss, it's a controlled market...if a swiss was available for a position he would get it...

Well admittedly not if the foreigner is EU-25. Then again, in official SVP-world, the reason no Swiss apply is because mean employers drive down wages by hiring dirt cheap EU foreigners. (In the real SVP-world, where the party bigwigs are also big(gish) industrialists and entrepreneurs, they happily hire these people and drive wages down for Swiss people. But I digress.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by yjt (Post 1325519)
They mention there is a possibility that the right to unlimited residency and social security benefits could be limited which means you could work here for 35 years pay your unemployment benefits and the Swiss will reserve the right to kick you out straight away without giving you any unemployment benefits.

I read that as "any social security payment" i.e. pensions. In other words, you can be kicked out as soon as you stop working. You can still draw on your Swiss pension, but as soon as you are seriously ill, or need permanent care, well it's not going to be Switzerland that's going to provide this.

In other words, we're talking about a possible return of the 1960s Europe "guest worker" model, were you can only stay as long as you are economically useful to the country. Very much like Dubai.

Faltrad 03.09.2011 12:41

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark75 (Post 1325680)
It's not a controlled market as far as (most) EU citizens are concerned.

It is self regulated by the market: you get a job, you get in - you don't get a job, you stay out. The poeple voted for that.
SVP/UDC/PPS circus raises the fundamental questions of how often can people change their mind. Any answer acceptable from twice a day to never ever, but politics is about long term lasting effects of actions. When a party uses the system to sabbotage long term planning in politics, getting annoyed it understandible...

Am I the only one finding that the SVP/UDC/PPS lounges initiatives demanding what is actually already in place? Immigration is controlled in this country either by politics or by the market, not forbidden - yes, I do consider "stop immigration" and "forbid immigration" as synonymous. If the SVP/UDC/PPS wants to change something, the question to be asked the people is not "controlling" but "forbidding" immigration. If Swiss voters want to build a wall around the country, so be it... but we'll only know if the poeple is actually asked the question without euphemisms.

marton 03.09.2011 12:54

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by yjt (Post 1325552)
I've just had a quick read the arguments they have and what I said about social security is apparently not true. They say you will only have the right to this benefits after a certain number of years.

I still find the explanations relatively vague and some what contradictory. For example above they don't define how many years this should be. They also want to limit the amount of asylum seekers Switzerland accepts yet they say no legitimate asylum seeker will be turned away. They say they're mainly talking about people who get refused asylum but for what ever reason can't be returned to their home country. I don't see how they can guarantee that no ligit asylum seeker will be turned away if they have a limit on how many they are prepared to take. The problems with those who are left in limbo surely needs to be resolved through other means?

That the SVP wishes to control which foreigners are let in is I suppose understandable. What I don't like though are these vague initiatives which leave out all the relevant details so you have no idea what the law will look like. I mean we still don't know what crimes are punishable with expulsion.

It's also all very well talking about how the foreigner proportion is one of the highest in the western world but here the naturalisation criteria is also one of the toughest in the western world.

Does any one have data on the percent of foreign born living in countries? I feel this is the only way to fairly compare the foreign population among various countries.

About "What I don't like though are these vague initiatives which leave out all the relevant details so you have no idea what the law will look like."

As someone already wrote, this is of course deliberate so if the referendum is successful the SVP can complain about the poor guys who have the task to turn it into law; for example, the current status of the referendum about expelling foreign criminals.

yjt 03.09.2011 13:16

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by marton (Post 1325709)
About "What I don't like though are these vague initiatives which leave out all the relevant details so you have no idea what the law will look like."

As someone already wrote, this is of course deliberate so if the referendum is successful the SVP can complain about the poor guys who have the task to turn it into law; for example, the current status of the referendum about expelling foreign criminals.


Yep I know why this is and It really annoys me.

Anyway I found a link (sorry I lost it) saying 20% of the population is foreign born which is still one of the highest in the world. I find it a bit unfair though to compare tiny Switzerland with hugh countries like USA and the UK which has lots of space . As Switzerland punches well above its weight economically I thought I'd compare it to some of the worlds other economical centres.

Well California has 26.8% foreign born citzens, New York 21% In New york city alone. 40% are foreigners

In 2001 32% of Londoners were born outside of the UK

Toronto has 46% foreigners

UAE has 70% foreigners and signapore 43%

It seems to me if you want to be economically successful you need to accept that you'll have a high foreigner percentage. The smaller the country the higher the need for foreigners

Mark75 03.09.2011 13:24

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OSueco (Post 1325691)
Each immigrant who has to work here has to through the process. They can not get an Ausweis without involvement of the Migrationsamt...so it's controlled.

That's right but there is no more limit on the number of EU citizens who can move to Switzerland for work. (Well, technically it's limited by the number of available jobs, but there is no legal limit.)
It depends on how you define 'controlled', I guess. ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by OSueco (Post 1325691)
In my case, my company had to prove that there was not somebody available in Switzerland before hiring me...

Well, maybe back then, but that's clearly not the case anymore for EU citizens. Every employer can hire EU citizens as he pleases.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OSueco (Post 1325691)
And yes there a quotas how many Ausweis that can be handed out each year...

There are no more quotas for most EU countries. (Exceptions being Bulgaria and Romania IIRC.)

Laertes 03.09.2011 13:36

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen
 
In my opinion all this talk about ending the Schengen agreement is just cheap political advertising. The SVP knows very well that this would be the end of the Bilateral agreements between Switzerland and the EU. And this would be the fast track into EU. Switzerland probably would be a member of EU within 5 years or even less.

I think SVP does only fight against the Bilateral agreements because they know, that they will not succeed (Swiss people always supported the "bilateral way" in popular votes by a clear majority). If they would succeed Switzerland only option remaining would be to enter the EU immediately.

Guest 03.09.2011 13:54

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen
 
Near here in La Chaux-de-Fonds, some of the posters have been altered thus:

STOPPER
LA XENOPHOBIE MASSIVE

Brilliant:)

The most worrying aspect of the SVP/UDC style campaign, is that it is stifling any sensible and necessary discussion and debate about immigration. Those 70% in CH who do not approve of the SVP/UDC tactics and agenda (including me and the majority of my friends) are so embarrassed and ashamed of the posters, adverts, etc- that the topic has become taboo. Which is counter-productive. Their extreme views result in extreme 'anti SVP/UDC'- not healthy nor helpful.

yjt 03.09.2011 14:05

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen
 
Quote:

Near here in La Chaux-de-Fonds, some of the posters have been altered thus:

STOPPER
LA XENOPHOBIE MASSIVE

Brilliant:)

The most worrying aspect of the SVP/UDC style campaign, is that it is stifling any sensible and necessary discussion and debate about immigration. Those 70% in CH who do not approve of the SVP/UDC tactics and agenda, are so embarrassed and ashamed of the posters, adverts, etc- that the topic has become taboo. Which is counter-productive. Their extreme views result in extreme 'anti SVP/UDC'- not healthy nor helpful.

I agree. This is my biggest criticism of the SVP. Instead of constructively making solutions to some of the problems they talk about the make suggestions which could have come from a 6 year old. If there's to many foreigners. Stop them. Simples.

Again the example of the asylum seekers. They say their gripe is not with ligit asylum seekers but rather economic refugees and the fake ones. Apparently many of the asylum seekers get turned down but for whatever reason they can't be sent back. It's not like Switzerland wants to have them, they just don't know what to do with them as they can't just chuck them over their country of origin with a parachute.

I would much rather the SVP make constructive suggestions on how to deal with this problem rather than wanting the country to disregard basic human rights

cannut 03.09.2011 14:52

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OSueco (Post 1325649)
There is NO LEGAL uncontrolled immigration, this is so much bull...just cheap shots of something that is already working as usual....try to understand...Switzerland is NOT EU, you can not come here and settle without having a job...

the unemployment rate is one of the lowest in europe, and e.g. at my company we have over 100 open positions, and we can't find any Swiss because there aren't any...so where does this leaves us...? tell me what we should do? Is better to outsource to another country?

so no, the foreigners are NOT taken the job from the Swiss, it's a controlled market...if a swiss was available for a position he would get it...

I do not what fantasy world people are living....:confused:

Good Thinking ,problem solved :msnnerd:>>>>>>>>> some one please give me some idea how much the population in Switzerland should be? 80 million and up ? in my opinion there are already to many people in Switzerland

KeinFranzösisch 03.09.2011 14:53

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by yjt (Post 1325556)
They'd also like to have a probation period for naturalised Swiss.

12 years of residency isn't enough probation?

OSueco 03.09.2011 15:00

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen
 
The biggest problem with this initiative is not the issue itself, it should be discussed, the problem is SVP has no "solution" they only do it to get votes...very simple...SVP don't contribute with anything, just crying about everything...

I think most of us understand these issues, it's getting crowded, but instead of focusing on cause-effect, i.e.

1. why is it like this? Who is to "blame"? It's certainly not the legal foreigners, they are let in by A. the Swiss government AND B. the Swiss companies. The Swiss are hiring us, the Swiss are setting our salaries...so selber schuld!

2. What is the solution? Is it a long or short term "problem"? Do Switzerland need to focus on the women? Easier for mothers to work? Equal salaries? Get women to study? All of which SVP don't want...

Foreigners are very attractive for Switzerland, you get a person who has experience AND has ended his/her education...

yjt 03.09.2011 15:02

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KeinFranzösisch (Post 1325812)
12 years of residency isn't enough probation?

Apparently not. At the start of the year the said they were having a think about launching an initiative which would mean naturalised Swiss would lose the Swiss pass if they mess up within a certain amount of time http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/schweiz/...story/30302904

cannut 03.09.2011 15:03

Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OSueco (Post 1325815)
The biggest problem with this initiative is not the issue itself, it should be discussed, the problem is SVP has no "solution" they only do it to get votes...very simple...SVP don't contribute with anything, just crying about everything...

I think most of us understand these issues, it's getting crowded, but instead of focusing on cause-effect, i.e.

1. why is it like this? Who is to "blame"? It's certainly not the legal foreigners, they are let in by A. the Swiss government AND B. the Swiss companies. The Swiss are hiring us, the Swiss are setting our salaries...so selber schuld!

2. What is the solution? Is it a long or short term "problem"? Do Switzerland need to focus on the women? Easier for mothers to work? Equal salaries? Get women to study? All of which SVP don't want...

Foreigners are very attractive for Switzerland, you get a person who has experience AND has ended his/her education...

Lots of woman in India ,ship the jobs there;)


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