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Old 18.09.2011, 00:29
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Re: SVP MP Spoke in Germany - Video with English Translation

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Recently they are too - as those new immigrants are making much more demands on the 'system' in many ways- according to the SVP being responsible for huge rent rises, housing development and ensueing loss of green space, traffic increases, pressure on the education system, etc. So one kind of immigrant is seen by SVP has causing security problems and 'sponging' on the State, the new, let's say Anglo-Saxon immigrants making demands which are changing Swiss society and making life difficult for the 'average Swiss".

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Les journalistes de la RSR ont réussi à obtenir un témoignage très intéressant, et surtout très rare : le responsable d’une régie immobilière du canton de Vaud à Lausanne a indiqué pendant le reportage que certains de leurs propriétaires ne voulaient louer leur appartement qu’à des expatriés. La raison ? C’est en général l’entreprise qui paye (il y a donc un meilleure garantie de solvabilité), mais surtout elles peuvent le louer à un autre tarif : alors même que le bien cité en exemple par le professionnel était sur le marché à 1 200 CHF par mois, il a été loué à un expatrié pour la somme de 2 850 CHF… C’est extrêmement choquant, et tout le monde, hormis la régie et le propriétaire, est perdant dans cette affaire.

Sorry this is in French. In short, Swiss radio journalists were able to get confirmation that Estate agents and owners by Lake Leman, in this case Lausanne, will currently only rent Ex-pat tenants. The reason is that as the Company often pays, they have more security of tenure- but mainly because they can then charge very inflated prices. For instance a flat on the market for 1200CHF per month- was eventually rented to an ex-pat for 2850CHF = a lot more than double!

I know 2 people who are Estate agents in the Geneva area who have confirmed this (they are making a bomb too!). I also have friends in Geneva who work for the public sector, and have had to move away when they had children, as they could NOT find any accommodation suitable, let alone at prices any 'normal' person can afford. I find the SVP/UDC xenophobic stance appalling, but it is wrong to ignore the truth.
Yes, but there is a problem in logic here.

The foreigners are not "making demand", not in this situation you describe, and they are not doing anything SWISS PEOPLE are not allowing them to do. No one is breaking laws. Who owns these Estate's? Foreigners? I doubt it.

This just stinks of hypocrisy.

1) Bring in the foreigners, we can get better jobs, higher international profile for our small nation, and more tax money.

2) Oh no, wait, the foreigners need and want things, and their are consequences for the policies we created. Blame the foreigners!!!

What??

The only foreigners who are ever accused by the SVP of breaking laws or making unfair demands inside of Switzerland on the government are fraudulent refugees. In this I agree. However, the majority of what I have seen the SVP talk about is not this, which in reality is a relatively small issue anyway.
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Old 18.09.2011, 12:05
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Re: SVP MP Spoke in Germany - Video with English Translation

http://www.aargauerzeitung.ch/schwei...ahne-113290242

Lick a duck takes to water they dwell into each and every part of history, tradition and culture having the necessity to bring change to form the country corresponding to their (religious) views, in the same time calling upon the principle of Secularization.
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Old 18.09.2011, 12:07
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Re: SVP MP Spoke in Germany - Video with English Translation

Surely you are aware that often the 'Government' together with banks and big businesses do things which are not requested by the native population, nor in their best interest. I can assure you the majority of natives in Geneva, for instance, DID NOT ask for the huge influx in big business and banking, ever since P&G- and yet they are the ones finding themselves priced out of their own City.
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Old 18.09.2011, 12:09
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Re: SVP MP Spoke in Germany - Video with English Translation

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"Recently they are too - as those new immigrants are making much more demands on the 'system' in many ways- according to the SVP being responsible for huge rent rises, housing development and ensueing loss of green space, traffic increases, pressure on the education system, etc. So one kind of immigrant is seen by SVP has causing security problems and 'sponging' on the State, the new, let's say Anglo-Saxon immigrants making demands which are changing Swiss society and making life difficult for the 'average Swiss"."

you cant have your cake and eat it too: its clear that swiss industry, academia and economy in general would be second rate without all the immigrant talent, and the swiss authorities know it well (including SVP). But, they are fighting for the heart and minds of the average swiss who may have resentments towards foreigners for one reason or another. SVP can not be stupid enough to ban all immigration, and they are making a political mistake by putting all immigrants into one basket. Even for the most xenophobic voter, a nice whitie american or brit can not be equal a brownie from the middle east.


Am I really the only one who finds this statement absolutely and totally out of order?
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Old 18.09.2011, 12:10
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Re: SVP MP Spoke in Germany - Video with English Translation

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Yes, but there is a problem in logic here.

The foreigners are not "making demand", not in this situation you describe, and they are not doing anything SWISS PEOPLE are not allowing them to do. No one is breaking laws. Who owns these Estate's? Foreigners? I doubt it.

This just stinks of hypocrisy.

1) Bring in the foreigners, we can get better jobs, higher international profile for our small nation, and more tax money.

2) Oh no, wait, the foreigners need and want things, and their are consequences for the policies we created. Blame the foreigners!!!

What??

The only foreigners who are ever accused by the SVP of breaking laws or making unfair demands inside of Switzerland on the government are fraudulent refugees. In this I agree. However, the majority of what I have seen the SVP talk about is not this, which in reality is a relatively small issue anyway.
Its like what some past German president said of the Turkish immigrants: "we asked for workers, instead received people"
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Old 18.09.2011, 12:27
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Re: SVP MP Spoke in Germany - Video with English Translation

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Am I really the only one who finds this statement absolutely and totally out of order?
To which part of it do you object, precisely?
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Old 18.09.2011, 13:14
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Re: SVP MP Spoke in Germany - Video with English Translation

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here is my response to the video: YEAH BABY, we are taking over the frikkin Europe, and there is nothing you can do about it! (well, except, you can spend less time posting racist videos and put more effort in the bedroom and make some nice white christian babies)
I see a problem here: You seem to look at things a bit too digitally and I honestly believe you are mixing a few things. Christianity has been a forming element of the Western world,. This has mutated into a more historical and cultural element rather than an essential part of the living fabric of society. It is very normal to be perceived and feel as a Western person and being a complete atheist for example. You don't have to have a specific skin colour either.
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Old 18.09.2011, 13:32
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Re: SVP MP Spoke in Germany - Video with English Translation

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To which part of it do you object, precisely?
I can't speak of Odile, but as I have tried to point out several times in such discussions, the locals are not expat-friendly at all just because they are white and the other immigrants are not white. They understand the good it does to the industry and enjoy taking their money, but the cultural and polutical issue stays the same.

It is a huge mistake to see Swiss as "race" racists. This is why the word xenophobic should be used in its actual meaning when relevant to certain experiences in this country and not be turned into a race issue causasian vs the rest of the world. I can imagine that it is impossible for many caucasians from rich countries to understand that they can be seen as a Störenfried (trouble maker by their only presence, without even doing anything wrong or right) because they never ever can imagine themselves in a minority, social Randgruppe (fringe group? marginal?). It is hard for them to accept that, but it can be the case, oh yes it can very well be the case. Germans settling in Zürich as if they were just changing Bundesland are reminded of that very quickly and forcefully. Same with white caucasians from the dominating classes in the US and UK: just to be caucasian does not make you any different from another foreigner in many people's eyes. Not that different in any case. I have commented the use of the word "expat" for caucasian high skilled immigration, but it is still immigration, plain economic immigration. Nothing wrong with that, but being white does not make you any more welcome as an economic immigrant. If you think so, then you are the one who has to take a minute contemplating your views on race issues, not the Swiss. Fortunately, I know that you personnaly don't need to, dear Dougal, you don't think in terms of races. But some readers definitely should take that minute to think.
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  #69  
Old 18.09.2011, 13:35
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Re: SVP MP Spoke in Germany - Video with English Translation

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I can't speak of Odile, but as I have tried to point out several times in such discussions, ... But some readers definitely should take that minute to think.
Thank you for your explanation.

I'm still intrigued, though: F-minus might be wrong (and it wouldn't be the first time), but in what way is his statement offensive?
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  #70  
Old 18.09.2011, 13:39
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Re: SVP MP Spoke in Germany - Video with English Translation

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Surely you are aware that often the 'Government' together with banks and big businesses do things which are not requested by the native population, nor in their best interest. I can assure you the majority of natives in Geneva, for instance, DID NOT ask for the huge influx in big business and banking, ever since P&G- and yet they are the ones finding themselves priced out of their own City.
What in this SPECIAL DIRECT DEMOCRACY???? Impossible.

Because SWITZERLAND IS A SPECIAL COUNTRY that can't possible have these ORDINARY PROBLEMS. LOL

Anyway...the point is "the foreigners aren't pushing anything"...don't blame people who are invited here from doing what they are allowed to do.

Blame the gate keeper, who are almost all Swiss.
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Old 18.09.2011, 13:47
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Re: SVP MP Spoke in Germany - Video with English Translation

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Its like what some past German president said of the Turkish immigrants: "we asked for workers, instead received people"
No, it is not what he said. This statement meant that the original idea in the booming West Germany of the 50ies and 60ies was that workers would come to do the work, and then get home again. But people came who did work but stayed on and gradually moved their families in -- and so "Germany received people". There was no reference to "brown people" but to South European Whites from between Portugal and Turkey.
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Old 18.09.2011, 13:47
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Re: SVP MP Spoke in Germany - Video with English Translation

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[/B]

Am I really the only one who finds this statement absolutely and totally out of order?
yes, I'm American and I'm a "brownie"...but the statement being offensive does not mean there is no some truth in it, I think there are many who think exactly like that. As said above, I think we should separate xenophobia from racism, the two are related, overlap at times, but not the same thing. My girlfriend's father doesn't like Muslims or Germans. Some other Swiss might hate all non-white Europeans, some hate only "Yugos" (who are "white" at least in an Anglo-Saxon sense), and some just hate any refugees they see as abusing the system...the motivates can be racism, xenophobia, previous bad experience, jealousy, classism, whatever...
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Old 18.09.2011, 13:53
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Re: SVP MP Spoke in Germany - Video with English Translation

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Thank you for your explanation.

I'm still intrigued, though: F-minus might be wrong (and it wouldn't be the first time), but in what way is his statement offensive?
It is neither details nor wording, it is the tone in/of this statement. "C'est le ton qui fait la musique"

beside the point that many people from the Middle East are NOT "Brownies" but whites, and that not all US-Whites are nice, and that the phrase indicates that "Brownies" are not nice. And the phrase assumes that the skin-colour was the detemining factor here which is not the case, as the "Balkanese" people are European Whites and not overwhelmingly popular !
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Old 18.09.2011, 14:30
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Re: SVP MP Spoke in Germany - Video with English Translation

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What in this SPECIAL DIRECT DEMOCRACY???? Impossible.

Because SWITZERLAND IS A SPECIAL COUNTRY that can't possible have these ORDINARY PROBLEMS. LOL

Anyway...the point is "the foreigners aren't pushing anything"...don't blame people who are invited here from doing what they are allowed to do.

Blame the gate keeper, who are almost all Swiss.
The people in question were NOT "invited" they were hired by companies in Switzerland, which is a bit of a difference People then coming to Switzerland need lodgings and food and other articles.

And let's look at another aspect. Those newcomers do not settle in some open countrysides like the Emmental or the areas between Bern and the Bernese Oberland or more remote areas, they settle in already "full" areas like Zürich, Basel-Mülhausen-Lörrach, Bern and Geneva-Nyon-Thonon, and increase the demographic problem. ---- THE way to cure the situation immediately would be to
- relocate the entire UBS from Zurich to Bauma (Töss-Valley) with the old UBS buildings be used as shopping centres, a big bank-museum and other museums
- relocate the administrative offices of Novartis to Murten/FR
- relocate the UNO from Geneva to Yverdon, with the bldg in GVA to be converted into a U.N.-museum
- relocate the SBB/CFF/FFS administration from Bern to Sumiswald/Emmental

all expats would be happy, as they would have
- ample space
- low rents
- lots of nature
- no congestion
- friendly locals
- good air
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Old 18.09.2011, 14:37
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Re: SVP MP Spoke in Germany - Video with English Translation

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Old 18.09.2011, 14:48
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Re: SVP MP Spoke in Germany - Video with English Translation

And UBS bankers would then officially be 'Tossers' (sorry no umlaut on my keyboard) - brilliant.
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Old 18.09.2011, 14:52
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Re: SVP MP Spoke in Germany - Video with English Translation

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The people in question were NOT "invited" they were hired by companies in Switzerland, which is a bit of a difference People then coming to Switzerland need lodgings and food and other articles.

And let's look at another aspect. Those newcomers do not settle in some open countrysides like the Emmental or the areas between Bern and the Bernese Oberland or more remote areas, they settle in already "full" areas like Zürich, Basel-Mülhausen-Lörrach, Bern and Geneva-Nyon-Thonon, and increase the demographic problem. ---- THE way to cure the situation immediately would be to
- relocate the entire UBS from Zurich to Bauma (Töss-Valley) with the old UBS buildings be used as shopping centres, a big bank-museum and other museums
- relocate the administrative offices of Novartis to Murten/FR
- relocate the UNO from Geneva to Yverdon, with the bldg in GVA to be converted into a U.N.-museum
- relocate the SBB/CFF/FFS administration from Bern to Sumiswald/Emmental

all expats would be happy, as they would have
- ample space
- low rents
- lots of nature
- no congestion
- friendly locals
- good air
LOL...I like civilization thank you very much...Zug doesn't have much, but at least I'm close to Zurich.
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Old 18.09.2011, 16:41
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Re: SVP MP Spoke in Germany - Video with English Translation

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http://www.aargauerzeitung.ch/schwei...ahne-113290242

Lick a duck takes to water they dwell into each and every part of history, tradition and culture having the necessity to bring change to form the country corresponding to their (religious) views, in the same time calling upon the principle of Secularization.
I can understand why these second-generation Swiss immigrants (I assume they are citizens?) object to the Swiss flag because they don't feel it applies to them. However, I think they are unintentionally playing into the SVP's hands. I don't know how religious the Swiss people as a whole are (although the Swiss national anthem is literally a hymn that could be sung in any Christian church), but I imagine that there are many Swiss citizens who aren't relgious and never go to church, but associate the Swiss cross with "Switzerland" rather than Christianity.

The SVP can point to these protests and argue that these people, and by extention most foreigners, want to take Switzerland away from its Christian roots and change it so that it is unrecognizable to Swiss citizens living today. I think that it would be better if they rallied BEHIND the flag to show "we are Switzerland, too."
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Old 18.09.2011, 17:49
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Re: SVP MP Spoke in Germany - Video with English Translation

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LOL...I like civilization thank you very much...Zug doesn't have much, but at least I'm close to Zurich.
Bauma even is inside the Canton of Zürich and linked to Zürich by S-Bahn
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Old 19.09.2011, 11:09
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Re: SVP MP Spoke in Germany - Video with English Translation

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It is neither details nor wording, it is the tone in/of this statement. "C'est le ton qui fait la musique"
Please take notice Simon_CH

What annoys me the most is the additional scaremongering by the media.
Todays headline in 20min (Zurich edition) reads "Attack on Swiss cross by Secondos".

http://www.20min.ch/news/schweiz/story/25414543

Makes all foreigners or secondos look bad eventhough it's only a tiny group of people that voiced this stupid idea . Makes for a good front page headline though doesn't it?
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