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Old 11.09.2011, 15:39
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SVP MP Spoke in Germany - Video with English Translation



MP Oskar Freysinger basically rants about MOOOSLIMS (you know, the new boogie man) and socialist taking over Europe.

I'm posting this for two reasons.

1) Because we rarely get translations of what these people are saying in English.

2) He is speaking to "Europe" outside of Switzerland, so this is not purely a nationalist issue, but a pan-European thing he is refering to (as he sees it)...mostly the dynamic in Switzerland is Nationalist vs foreigners (and Swiss foreign enablers).

3) I was interested to hear comments from board members.



My comments:

1) While there is some truth in various things he says (if it was completely insane no one would listen at all) it is mostly fear mongering hyperbole. What caught my attention is you can read almost the exact same thing on the web almost word by word from American and British right wing bloggers...from folks like Mass murdering Norwegian Breivick to anonymous university kids...the script is the same.

Is this coincidence or is there a movement that has been building for some time, and actual people "writing the script"? Who are the real leaders in North America and Europe behind this? Every moment, no matter what it is, has a mass of mindless drones, and a key group of intellectuals at the lead. So who are they? Since Freysinger introduced no original thought who is thinking for him?

2) Maybe most importantly, what is the likely outcome of what they are saying? The valdity does not matter as much as what these people will do if they get their way.

I'm interested in this because I'm a non-EU citizen (although Westerner) who is a visible non-white minority living in Europe. So yeah, I may not be a Muslim, but I don't trust that if these nationalist get their way they won't target me after the Muslims...(if not at the same time). Nationalism and racialism (something I also believe influences many if not most) always rolls down hill in this manner...there usually, historically, is not a middle ground.
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Old 11.09.2011, 16:07
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Re: SVP MP Spoke in Germany - Video with English Translation

...the main inspiration for a "new Breivik"....thanks Oskar!
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Old 11.09.2011, 16:30
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Re: SVP MP Spoke in Germany - Video with English Translation

http://www.erichhess.ch/

Would you vote for this man?
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Old 11.09.2011, 17:28
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Re: SVP MP Spoke in Germany - Video with English Translation

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...the main inspiration for a "new Breivik"....thanks Oskar!
Certainly not the main inspiration as Breivik targeted those that he considered to be future "cultural Marxists" instead of actual Islamists.

Freysinger has a point when it comes to integration. Immigrants can be expected to adapt to their new home culturally (everyone, independent of religion and origin).
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Old 11.09.2011, 17:52
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Re: SVP MP Spoke in Germany - Video with English Translation

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Certainly not the main inspiration as Breivik targeted those that he considered to be future "cultural Marxists" instead of actual Islamists.

Freysinger has a point when it comes to integration. Immigrants can be expected to adapt to their new home culturally (everyone, independent of religion and origin).
That's correct, but the other part is the larger society should not be hypocritical. Don't bring in large amounts of immigrants expecting them to work and leave (guest workers) or just do nothing to try to help integrate them (or deal with local racism/ethnocentrism/ and general discrimination when it does AND WILL occur in almost any society that has been relatively closed previously)...

I find people like him leave out this second part and only put the onus on the immigrant.

I can think of many examples in a few countries where I personally know people who have done all they can to integrate and the general society (at least where they live in the country) treats them with disdain, disrespect, racism, xenophobia, etc. Not all countries are easy to integrate into, definitely not.

If you don't want immigrants. Fine. Don't bring them in. That is every nations right.

However don't bring them in and then wash your hands if things don't work out well and pretend like the majority population has no responsibility in their own attitudes in behaviors.

I also notice that Freysinger gave no solution...his only stance was:

"Muslims", which is like saying "Christians" (lol that can be anyone from a Catholic, to a Orthadox, to a Mormon, to an Anglican, to some nondenominational local church" to X, Y, and Z.

Fight them or they will destroy your way of life.

Nice. It is like throwing a match on gasoline. I find this socially irresponsible.

As I said I don't think everything he said is incorrect, but they way he set the speech tells me what is motives are. He doesn't want "integration" of anyone.
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Old 11.09.2011, 18:00
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Re: SVP MP Spoke in Germany - Video with English Translation

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If you don't want immigrants. Fine. Don't bring them in. That is every nations right.
What like the former "White Australia" policy?

Your ideas are even further right that the SVP...
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Old 11.09.2011, 18:52
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Re: SVP MP Spoke in Germany - Video with English Translation

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2) He is speaking to "Europe" outside of Switzerland, so this is not purely a nationalist issue, but a pan-European thing he is refering to (as he sees it)...mostly the dynamic in Switzerland is Nationalist vs foreigners (and Swiss foreign enablers).
1) He is not speaking "to Europe" - he speaks to like-minded extremists in Europe and has established a network with French, Dutch (Geert Wilders), German and Austrian connections.

2) He does NOT speak for the SVP. As much as I like to bash them do even they find him a bit OTT by now and asked him this summer to stop those EU tours and speeches: "Just as we don't want other countries to interfere in Switzerland should we stay out of other countries politics" (SVP Pres. Mörgeli) Source

As all extremists he makes the same mistake: He sees some real facts - the Muslims in Europe do have more kids than the non-muslims and will therefore become an increasingly important part of the societies - and then mixes them up with some twisted conspiracy theories. Claiming that Muslims undercut our societies to then demographically destroy them is so idiotic that I will not even argue it - it basically means that every Muslim mother only gets children to strengthen Islam.
His arguments that Muslims do not respect "our" values or state principles is equally rubbish - it only applies to radical Muslims. And the same can be said about radical Christians or Jews.

So: Is he a nutter? Absolutely. Is the SVP taking over the EU? Absolutely not.

The only real point he has IMHO is the growing fundamentalism in Turkey. A dangerous development for Europe.
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Old 11.09.2011, 19:39
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Re: SVP MP Spoke in Germany - Video with English Translation

The SVP was well 'guarded' by police this weekend at a rally in Bern. Not without reason.

But Freysinger is a bit of a nutter and some of his so-called facts were wildly incorrect.

Islamic occupation here or SVP occupation? I tend to think the second is more likely to happen. God help us.
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Old 11.09.2011, 20:52
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Re: SVP MP Spoke in Germany - Video with English Translation

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Certainly not the main inspiration as Breivik targeted those that he considered to be future "cultural Marxists" instead of actual Islamists.

Freysinger has a point when it comes to integration. Immigrants can be expected to adapt to their new home culturally (everyone, independent of religion and origin).
Seriously, Breivik biggest fear was that muslims would take over Europe using the "marxists" and socialist...got it wrong there bud...

Dear Oskar is afraid of a future Europe that is controlled by the muslims...

Look up integration, what dear Oskar preaches is pure assimilation...SVP has stated many times that integration of foreigners are up to themselves...

Integration (http://www.ldoceonline.com/dictionary/integration):
The combining of two or more things so that they work together effective
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Old 11.09.2011, 22:17
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Re: SVP MP Spoke in Germany - Video with English Translation

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1) He is not speaking "to Europe" - he speaks to like-minded extremists in Europe and has established a network with French, Dutch (Geert Wilders), German and Austrian connections.

2) He does NOT speak for the SVP. As much as I like to bash them do even they find him a bit OTT by now and asked him this summer to stop those EU tours and speeches: "Just as we don't want other countries to interfere in Switzerland should we stay out of other countries politics" (SVP Pres. Mörgeli) Source

As all extremists he makes the same mistake: He sees some real facts - the Muslims in Europe do have more kids than the non-muslims and will therefore become an increasingly important part of the societies - and then mixes them up with some twisted conspiracy theories. Claiming that Muslims undercut our societies to then demographically destroy them is so idiotic that I will not even argue it - it basically means that every Muslim mother only gets children to strengthen Islam.
His arguments that Muslims do not respect "our" values or state principles is equally rubbish - it only applies to radical Muslims. And the same can be said about radical Christians or Jews.

So: Is he a nutter? Absolutely. Is the SVP taking over the EU? Absolutely not.

The only real point he has IMHO is the growing fundamentalism in Turkey. A dangerous development for Europe.
Hmmm....really??
He had his own spot in Bern on Saturday......
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Old 11.09.2011, 22:45
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Re: SVP MP Spoke in Germany - Video with English Translation

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What like the former "White Australia" policy?

Your ideas are even further right that the SVP...
In theory, and I speak as a nonwhite visible minority, every nation has the right to determine who they want to live with them.

If Australia decided they wanted all Catholics no taller than 185cm with brown hair and blue eyes, who spoke with a distinct Irish accent from a specific county. As ridiculous as that may be to you and I that is their right.

Now there is a different between having a "right to do something" and it being "moral" or even "rational"...but everyone has the right to decide who comes in their house.

I think that stance in Australia is somewhat problematic being that the original settlers were invaders (okay forced often at the point of a gun themselves...)...and I think countries that had colonies are in a precarious situations, but nations like Switzerland own no foreigners or ethnic minority immigrants anything.

Still, not being a hypocritical ass is appreciated. (not referring to you, but some people like this guy in the video).
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Old 12.09.2011, 00:29
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Re: SVP MP Spoke in Germany - Video with English Translation

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MP Oskar Freysinger basically rants about MOOOSLIMS (you know, the new boogie man) and socialist taking over Europe.

I'm posting this for two reasons.

1) Because we rarely get translations of what these people are saying in English.

2) He is speaking to "Europe" outside of Switzerland, so this is not purely a nationalist issue, but a pan-European thing he is refering to (as he sees it)...mostly the dynamic in Switzerland is Nationalist vs foreigners (and Swiss foreign enablers).

3) I was interested to hear comments from board members.



My comments:

1) While there is some truth in various things he says (if it was completely insane no one would listen at all) it is mostly fear mongering hyperbole. What caught my attention is you can read almost the exact same thing on the web almost word by word from American and British right wing bloggers...from folks like Mass murdering Norwegian Breivick to anonymous university kids...the script is the same.

Is this coincidence or is there a movement that has been building for some time, and actual people "writing the script"? Who are the real leaders in North America and Europe behind this? Every moment, no matter what it is, has a mass of mindless drones, and a key group of intellectuals at the lead. So who are they? Since Freysinger introduced no original thought who is thinking for him?

2) Maybe most importantly, what is the likely outcome of what they are saying? The valdity does not matter as much as what these people will do if they get their way.

I'm interested in this because I'm a non-EU citizen (although Westerner) who is a visible non-white minority living in Europe. So yeah, I may not be a Muslim, but I don't trust that if these nationalist get their way they won't target me after the Muslims...(if not at the same time). Nationalism and racialism (something I also believe influences many if not most) always rolls down hill in this manner...there usually, historically, is not a middle ground.
His arguments ARE rubbish, but his rethorics is absolute TOP class
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Old 12.09.2011, 10:42
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Re: SVP MP Spoke in Germany - Video with English Translation

at around 3:30 into the video ...

"We shrug our shoulders when ..... integrated Muslims are pressured and threatened"

if only Herr Freysinger actually bothered to ask a few integrated Muslims as to where they see the main pressure and threat coming from
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Old 12.09.2011, 11:40
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Re: SVP MP Spoke in Germany - Video with English Translation

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The SVP was well 'guarded' by police this weekend at a rally in Bern. Not without reason.
Are the opponents of SVP violent then?
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Old 12.09.2011, 12:07
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Re: SVP MP Spoke in Germany - Video with English Translation

I dont believe he is totally against Muslims. When speaking he uses the terms "Islamisten" and "Extremisten", tending to refer more to the fanatical kind.

He even sympathises with peaceful Muslims who have already integrated and are being pressured by their fanatical peers (that doesnt mean all of them are pressured, but also doesnt mean that such pressures dont exist for some).

Whilst there are parts I agree and disagree with, what is probably bothering me more is the tone in which such messages are delivered. If the message was delivered in a more peaceful and thought out way it would go a lot further than the Hitleresque tone and yelling that goes on. Such deliveries reach the wrong kind of people - those that are easy stirred up inside emotionally, and yelling tends to have a way of hitting some nerves - we are all human in the end.
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Old 12.09.2011, 12:18
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Re: SVP MP Spoke in Germany - Video with English Translation

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Are the opponents of SVP violent then?
Well, the SVP somehow believe they might be........wonder why??
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Old 12.09.2011, 12:36
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Re: SVP MP Spoke in Germany - Video with English Translation

After living in NL for 2 years he sounds very much like Wilders, you only have to watch this video to get the idea, the guy has 24/7 security paid for by the Dutch taxpayer.

For anyone who hasn't seen it. Apologies if this offends anyone. Don't watch it if you are of sensitive nature it's graphic.

I think these individuals playing on peoples fears no matter how much truth is in it. They are particularly clever, as a "part truth" is more likely to get these elected than an all out in your face, we hate muslims.



Worrying some of these preachers of hate reside in the UK, we should kick them out, not the majority of the peaceful muslims who go about their daily lifes and makes attempts to be a productive part of society. The trouble is these peaceful individuals need to be heard more to get their point across, and this doesn't seem to be happening.
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Old 12.09.2011, 12:39
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Re: SVP MP Spoke in Germany - Video with English Translation

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Well, the SVP somehow believe they might be........wonder why??
I can't remember the last time someone from another party was attacked, but with SVP politicians and rallies it's almost a common occurence. Whatever your grievances with the party are - physical attacks should be condemned in the strongest term, not condoned and explained with "frustrations" as is unfortunately often the case.

Democracy grows through lively debates where all opinions can be voiced, not suppression through violence of unwanted viewpoints. In that sense I really wish the SP and CVP would jump over their shadow for once and stand up for the right of the SVP to speak up in peaceful rallies and meets, not blame them for the high police costs needed for protection.
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Old 12.09.2011, 12:58
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Re: SVP MP Spoke in Germany - Video with English Translation

It's amazing how ignorant these people are not only about history of civilizations on this planet, but even the history that passes right before their eyes. And I wonder when they will really understand that the only outcome of such hate is an even deeper hate in the opposite direction. Did this knucklehead ever heard about the 9/11 when he joked that '..they won't anyways be able to do that [attack with missiles, bombs, etc]'? I am in noway supportive of any act of terror, but with this pace of racism, marginalization, and discrimination going on in Europe, the future really looks terrorized!
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Old 12.09.2011, 13:13
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Re: SVP MP Spoke in Germany - Video with English Translation

I think what's concerning me the most is that Oskar Freysinger surrounds himself with well known right wing figures and Neo Nazi organisations and it seems to be tolerated by both the SVP and the public.

There would be an outcry if a politician of one of the main big German political parties had done the same.

http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/schweiz/...story/16043368

Sadly SVP doesn't surprise me anymore at all. It just shows where they stand politically speaking.
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