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  #121  
Old 03.12.2011, 21:04
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Re: Zürich Airport - Say "No" for a "Yes" November 27, 2011

I have to admire how you always try to have the final word, but when you lack arguments and crucial pieces of information you're bound to paint yourself in a corner, at least as far as Geneva is concerned.

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That indeed is THE problem of Cointrin, but there is no point to build runway capacity if you do not have terminal capacity. An additional runway only could be built between Ferney-Voltaire (F) and Chavannes-des-Bois (CH), linked to the airport by a taxiway undercutting existing roads. The project would cost some billions CHF but would be a profitable investment over the longer term.
Yes we could also build a taxiway all the way from Lausanne... get real this is not the Polderbaan, space is at a premium. This famous 2nd runway is like the local Loch Ness monster, but face it, it's never going to happen.


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A) it could not be all of GA (I visited the Nyon Airfield twice)
B) if that grass strip got extended to 600m or 750m AND paved, a lot would become possible
And obviously you've not paid attention during both visits... why do you think there are so few aircraft based there? The commune owns part of the land and a condition to use it is no commercial operation on the strip. I'm sure they'd love a suggestion of "extending and paving" the runway...

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True, but extending that airfield should be possible
Have you actually BEEN there and seen how CONSTRAINED the runway is? Anything is possible, but I doubt the French will spend money to relocate national roads, shopping centers, industral area et al. just to humor this.


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while the city cannot be "moved" of course, either the highway gets undercut by an extended runway or gets elevated so that the runway can get extended. Only a few additional billions CHF.


Both, the new runway for Cointrin and the runway extension for Blécherette would cost less than 10 Gripen fighters
Sure. I mean it only took 25+ years to get approval to build the missing rail link between Geneva and Annemasse... and you suggest building the local equivalent of the Apollo project.

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Good solutions ? Go from Cointrin terminals-area to Ferney-Voltaire. You have to go (by car or by feet) along the south-eastern perimeter to the East and then you can go/drive below the runway over to Ferney-Voltaire. This also is interesting for aircraft photographers, because if you after arrival in F-V turn sharply right and then back you can walk along a hotel (plus bar with a good Calvados) and a Lidl towards the fence and will find one of the best photography spots in a 2000 km radius (after 13.30 due to the position of the sun). Was that tunnel free of charge ? Hardly, but it solves the problems of the places on both sides remarkably well. The investment for sure has paid off widely in the time since the building took place
You realise that "solution" dates back to the 1960'es and it was far easier to do then, right?
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  #122  
Old 03.12.2011, 21:21
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Re: Zürich Airport - Say "No" for a "Yes" November 27, 2011

Well airport officials have said that with the new projects being made they can reach the 18mi mark with the current single runway. That's a lot for a metropolitan area of around 860,000 inhabitants, surely all those multinational companies HQ and international organizations bring a lot of more people than to a normal such city, but in the event of that number being reached then there would be no option but building an entirely new airport away from the city, like Zurich's Kloten, and link it by train and highway to Geneva. There's quite "a lot" (for the size of GVA) of space on the backyard of the canton, the 5km strip between Chancy and the french border is almost empty, as well as the 3,5 strip betwen the communes of Challex and Asserans, that makes the square of land pretty big. I guess that's enough to build an airport! citizens in there wouldn't be too happy, but it's impossible to satisfy everyone.
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  #123  
Old 03.12.2011, 22:19
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Re: Zürich Airport - Say "No" for a "Yes" November 27, 2011

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I have to admire how you always try to have the final word, but when you lack arguments and crucial pieces of information you're bound to paint yourself in a corner, at least as far as Geneva is concerned.
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I in regard to GVA Cointrin did NOT have "arguments" but some ideas. Without ideas, we in civil aviation would still be in stages of the Wright brothers.


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Yes we could also build a taxiway all the way from Lausanne... get real this is not the Polderbaan, space is at a premium. This famous 2nd runway is like the local Loch Ness monster, but face it, it's never going to happen.
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Well, another aircraft taxiway right along the existing highway ! Why not ?

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-And obviously you've not paid attention during both visits... why do you think there are so few aircraft based there? The commune owns part of the land and a condition to use it is no commercial operation on the strip. I'm sure they'd love a suggestion of "extending and paving" the runway...
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I saw many aircraft based there, but I can imagine some extensions. If the commune is against it, so be it. But regrettable nevertheless

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Have you actually BEEN there and seen how CONSTRAINED the runway is? Anything is possible, but I doubt the French will spend money to relocate national roads, shopping centers, industral area et al. just to humor this.
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The République de Genève would have to buy a few things from the French Republic, and hey presto, even the Président de la République will support the project !

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Sure. I mean it only took 25+ years to get approval to build the missing rail link between Geneva and Annemasse... and you suggest building the local equivalent of the Apollo project.
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To get things ahead to establish a new toilet house, you have to demand a kind of Apollo project !
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Here the new rail-link :
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jeudi 21.10.2010, 14:00 À Genève, les tramways occupent l'espace dédié aux transports publics depuis de nombreuses années déjà. A quand de tels outils dans l'agglomération annemassienne?

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Lors du dernier conseil communautaire, les élus ont approuvé le projet de tramway, préalable indispensable à une demande d'aide financière auprès de l'État à hauteur de 25 % de son coût total.



Le tramway de la route de Genève verra-t-il le jour en 2017 ? Tel est en tout cas le voeu des élus d'Annemasse Agglo - et des usagers des transports en commun - bien décidés à accélérer le projet
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which looks great ! When you asked people in Geneva about such a thing as late as in the 1980ies, they reacted with "never, sorry" and now things are enroute

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You realise that "solution" dates back to the 1960'es and it was far easier to do then, right?
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Easier it was in political terms, but by technologies, it is easier NOW

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Züri-trams to the airport ? Impossible and out of the question was the reaction between the 1950ies and the early 1990ies and now there are two tram-lines even, and the lines will even get extended to Bassersdorf in a foreseeable future. Wonders ARE possible, but take a while usually
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  #124  
Old 03.12.2011, 23:05
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Re: Zürich Airport - Say "No" for a "Yes" November 27, 2011

After reading this, I was wondering if any of you knew why Basel Euroairport isn't linked to the rail system yet?

It seems so strange to have local trains and TGVs passing by so close and yet not making the short diversion to the airport. So strange in fact, that I guess there must be something getting in the way that I haven't noticed.

Are there land use issues? Do the passenger numbers not stack up?
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  #125  
Old 04.12.2011, 00:24
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Re: Zürich Airport - Say "No" for a "Yes" November 27, 2011

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After reading this, I was wondering if any of you knew why Basel Euroairport isn't linked to the rail system yet?

It seems so strange to have local trains and TGVs passing by so close and yet not making the short diversion to the airport. So strange in fact, that I guess there must be something getting in the way that I haven't noticed.

Are there land use issues? Do the passenger numbers not stack up?
Over the years various plans have been discussed (tram connection, people mover from St Louis, etc.) but the most likely scenario is diverting the Basel-Mulhouse rail line through the airport for both local and TGV services - see http://bazonline.ch/basel/stadt/Moeg...story/29947641 . As you can see, the amount the Swiss gov. is contributing is not very impressive. And for the French, we must remember that this is a pretty insignificant corner of the country which, from next weekend, will only be 3 hours from Paris by TGV.
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  #126  
Old 04.12.2011, 01:19
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Re: Zürich Airport - Say "No" for a "Yes" November 27, 2011

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Over the years various plans have been discussed (tram connection, people mover from St Louis, etc.) but the most likely scenario is diverting the Basel-Mulhouse rail line through the airport for both local and TGV services - see http://bazonline.ch/basel/stadt/Moeg...story/29947641 . As you can see, the amount the Swiss gov. is contributing is not very impressive. And for the French, we must remember that this is a pretty insignificant corner of the country which, from next weekend, will only be 3 hours from Paris by TGV.
A realistic option would be a rail-route Basel-BaselSt.Johann-BSLairport-Mulhouse-Colmar-Selestat-EntzheimApt-Strassburg, which would serve the regional interests far better than a connection to Paris. Not necessarily a TGV but simply a fast train. But, as the FrenchRepublic is 50% owner of BSL-MLH-airport, and the Cantons of Basel (BS+BL) each hold 25%, the decisions will be done in Paris as it would not be really in the SBB-network but primarily in the one of the SNCF.
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