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Old 21.09.2011, 13:56
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Re: Hungarian sex workers flooding to Zurich

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A friend of mine used to work as a store security guard and he says some people do the sickest things.
Well, I for one have always loathed private security of any kind, store or other. They are scum.

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you should also ban MTV.
+1, or at least make them return to showing music videos!

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  #162  
Old 21.09.2011, 14:01
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Re: Hungarian sex workers flooding to Zurich

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I guess that my biggest problem with prostitution is that I see so many women (even still today) base their identities primarily upon their sexuality (regardless of whether or not they are prostitutes). And so I feel like prostitution only perpetuates this warped sense of female identity. Of course, I have absolutely no problem with women "embracing their sensuality," but when they exploit their own sexuality in lieu of their intelligence or integrity, then as a woman, I am rather offended.

Sadly, though, many of these women probably come from societies in which the men already treated them that way (according to their sexuality). And so they are just vicitms of their own culture (as perhaps we all are).
Good day, I dont see at all what makes you so uncomfortable with it? People are and always will be different, some women recognize things beyond their sexuality - some dont. Many people operate on two chakras only and feel happy that way. For the majority of women their sexuality is the only chance to get their rightful position on the scale of values our society has... "ugly truth" as it was said here - but nonetheless
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  #163  
Old 21.09.2011, 14:03
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Re: Hungarian sex workers flooding to Zurich

I'm surprised no one has touched on the subject of how prostitution can also affect the health of wives, girlfriends, and sexual partners.

There's never a guarantee that condoms are being used in prostitution so what if a woman contracts an STD from her partner? Mind you that STDs in women can cause infertility and rob her of ever having a family. Plus, male-to-female transmission of STDs are 8 times more likely than reverse.

We can argue all we want about whether or not prostitution is considered violence toward women, but in the above scenario, it most certainly is.
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  #164  
Old 21.09.2011, 14:03
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Re: Hungarian sex workers flooding to Zurich

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Three years with Victim Support and many more with other crisis agencies has burned heaps of evidence into my brain.

Did you ever hear of the Robert Pickton case in Canada? I strongly recommend you read about it and see how seriously the murder of prostitutes is taken. Were these women not prostitutes, an aggressive investigation would have occurred immediately and properly.
You accuse me of going on a tangent but you cite a case from Canada. If it was relevant in Zürich, why wasn't it brought to trial in Zürich?

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You're on a tangent here. The comparisons people are making in attempts to rationalize prostitution are absolutely mind boggling. The level of abuse and violence that prostitutes face regularly (and the system of disadvantage that underpins their work in the first place) is not deserving of the recognition you're giving to a cashier who has a disrespectful customer.
That could well be. I was merely responding to the cue that prostitutes are reduced to their bodies, which I consider to be a meaningless statement that people repeat a lot without really thinking what it means, and nothing you have said so far makes me think otherwise.

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We aren't simply talking about individual incidents here. We're talking about a widespread perception and system that defines prostitutes as whores rather than human beings.
So what you're saying is that people in general don't like prostitutes very much? I think that's a well known fact that nobody would dispute. The question is what do you want to do about it? Criminalise them or protect them?

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Are you for serious? Abusers don't abuse everyone around them. Indeed, they direct their abuse at those they hold contempt for and believe deserve no better. So many functioning abusers are seen as pillars of society in many public capacities but in private they are primitive and violent with those who are vulnerable to people just like them.
I don't really believe these Jeckyll and Hyde scenarios. If somebody is nasty and evil, it generally shows through on all levels. In all these cases where people say "we would never have thought it of him" people were usually fooling themselves and closing their eyes to the truth. Prostitution is an extreme form of jungle capitalism in which everything is allowed because it is possible and there is nothing that power and money can't buy. Civilisation is all about taking the jungle out of human beings but there are always dark corners where it creeps back and power and money are dangerous things in that respect. Prostitutes who deliberately seek out the rich and powerful are playing that game to get a share of that money.
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  #165  
Old 21.09.2011, 14:05
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Re: Hungarian sex workers flooding to Zurich

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.... Many people operate on two chakras only and feel happy that way.....

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  #166  
Old 21.09.2011, 14:08
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Re: Hungarian sex workers flooding to Zurich

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You guys know that if you keep arguing, fighting, debating, goading, challenging, engaging, discussing, pontificating, disagreeing, confirming, trolling, chatting, joking, posting, proving, disproving, reproving and eventually repeatedly bumping.....

...these threads started by pointless, rehashed, juvenile, "cut and paste" cod-journalism of the worst kind started by The Local......

....that they will keep doing it, don't you?
They just make the initial post and never check back.

Journalism isn't a two way street.
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  #167  
Old 21.09.2011, 14:11
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Re: Hungarian sex workers flooding to Zurich

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I'm surprised no one has touched on the subject of how prostitution can also affect the health of wives, girlfriends, and sexual partners.

There's never a guarantee that condoms are being used in prostitution so what if a woman contracts an STD from her partner? Mind you that STDs in women can cause infertility and rob her of ever having a family. Plus, male-to-female transmission of STDs are 8 times more likely than reverse.

We can argue all we want about whether or not prostitution is considered violence toward women, but in the above scenario, it most certainly is.
I wanted to give you green for the above comment then I saw the last part - violence is not the same as risk. If one INFECTED partner KNOWINGLY has sex without condoms with another party - as per the recent case in Germany where a female celebrity infected with HIV got off scot free - then the case could be made - otherwise it's a risk involved in engaging in the act.
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  #168  
Old 21.09.2011, 14:24
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Re: Hungarian sex workers flooding to Zurich

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I wanted to give you green for the above comment then I saw the last part - violence is not the same as risk. If one INFECTED partner KNOWINGLY has sex without condoms with another party - as per the recent case in Germany where a female celebrity infected with HIV got off scot free - then the case could be made - otherwise it's a risk involved in engaging in the act.
I disagree. If I knowingly have sex without condoms outside of a relationship, yes, there's a risk that I could pass an STD to my partner....and I consider that knowledge of the risk the actual violence.
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  #169  
Old 21.09.2011, 14:31
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Re: Hungarian sex workers flooding to Zurich

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I disagree. If I knowingly have sex without condoms outside of a relationship, yes, there's a risk that I could pass an STD to my partner....and I consider that knowledge of the risk the actual violence.
You mean to say there is a way having sex without knowing it?
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  #170  
Old 21.09.2011, 14:31
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Re: Hungarian sex workers flooding to Zurich

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make money and have sex - thats what life is about? you don't agree?

ehe he he he he he he
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  #171  
Old 21.09.2011, 14:37
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Re: Hungarian sex workers flooding to Zurich

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I'm surprised no one has touched on the subject of how prostitution can also affect the health of wives, girlfriends, and sexual partners.

There's never a guarantee that condoms are being used in prostitution so what if a woman contracts an STD from her partner? Mind you that STDs in women can cause infertility and rob her of ever having a family. Plus, male-to-female transmission of STDs are 8 times more likely than reverse.

We can argue all we want about whether or not prostitution is considered violence toward women, but in the above scenario, it most certainly is.
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I wanted to give you green for the above comment then I saw the last part - violence is not the same as risk. If one INFECTED partner KNOWINGLY has sex without condoms with another party - as per the recent case in Germany where a female celebrity infected with HIV got off scot free - then the case could be made - otherwise it's a risk involved in engaging in the act.
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I disagree. If I knowingly have sex without condoms outside of a relationship, yes, there's a risk that I could pass an STD to my partner....and I consider that knowledge of the risk the actual violence.
The point being that the violence here is also to the wife/girlfriend (who is not aware of the risk of having sex with her long-term partner because she doesn't know he also visits prostitutes), right? I agree. And I have friends to whom it has happened. There's nothing like suddenly discovering you have an STD and you know you've only had sex with your partner of ten years to completely mess you up in every way.
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  #172  
Old 21.09.2011, 14:38
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Re: Hungarian sex workers flooding to Zurich

Another great debate caused by the local.

Would any mods be willing to take bribes to ban this bunch of trolls?
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  #173  
Old 21.09.2011, 14:40
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Re: Hungarian sex workers flooding to Zurich

(I thought the local was a bot?)

Last edited by Swissoconnors; 21.09.2011 at 14:40. Reason: Capitalisation!
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  #174  
Old 21.09.2011, 14:41
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Re: Hungarian sex workers flooding to Zurich

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I disagree. If I knowingly have sex without condoms outside of a relationship, yes, there's a risk that I could pass an STD to my partner....and I consider that knowledge of the risk the actual violence.
And that has exactly what to do with prostitution?

Tom
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  #175  
Old 21.09.2011, 14:45
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Re: Hungarian sex workers flooding to Zurich

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You accuse me of going on a tangent but you cite a case from Canada. If it was relevant in Zürich, why wasn't it brought to trial in Zürich?
This is a globally relevant discussion, no? No need to be anal here. I used an example from a westernized nation because that's best case. Now think about it in third world countries. What part of this thread dictated the discussion should not be taken into a global context, particularly as we're talking about Hungarian workers in Zurich? o_O

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So what you're saying is that people in general don't like prostitutes very much? I think that's a well known fact that nobody would dispute. The question is what do you want to do about it? Criminalise them or protect them?
Neither per say. Prevent women from becoming prostitutes in the first place. Address the systemic disadvantages that highlight prostitution as the only choice. All the rest - protection and decriminalization are part of a multifaceted strategy that *must* be based on a model of prevention.

Personally what will I do though? I will continue to support them from a person-centered perspective.

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I don't really believe these Jeckyll and Hyde scenarios. If somebody is nasty and evil, it generally shows through on all levels.
Sure. It's why abusers, pedophiles, thieves, serial killers and the like are so easy to spot. Riiiight.
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  #176  
Old 21.09.2011, 14:45
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Re: Hungarian sex workers flooding to Zurich

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You mean to say there is a way having sex without knowing it?
Although I had a chuckle from your comment, yes, there are cases where this happens - people drugged or drunk, recent story about the nurse assaulting female patients under anesthesia, etc.
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  #177  
Old 21.09.2011, 14:46
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Re: Hungarian sex workers flooding to Zurich

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The point being that the violence here is also to the wife/girlfriend (who is not aware of the risk of having sex with her long-term partner because she doesn't know he also visits prostitutes), right? I agree. And I have friends to whom it has happened. There's nothing like suddenly discovering you have an STD and you know you've only had sex with your partner of ten years to completely mess you up in every way.
thats right. typical situation: she is at home with children and he is a busy businessman who is always traveling... she is lucky if he is clever and responsible enough to use contraceptives

otherwise you may get infection at the same time with pregnancy and your child will be born sick and struggle to survive, like it happened to someone i knew...
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  #178  
Old 21.09.2011, 14:49
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Re: Hungarian sex workers flooding to Zurich

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And that has exactly what to do with prostitution?

Tom
My post prior to that one mentions the connection to prostitution. I was simply disagreeing to a comment on my post.
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  #179  
Old 21.09.2011, 14:53
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Re: Hungarian sex workers flooding to Zurich

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My post prior to that one mentions the connection to prostitution.
Surely STDs are not only obtained from prostitutes!

Tom
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  #180  
Old 21.09.2011, 14:57
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Re: Hungarian sex workers flooding to Zurich

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...For the majority of women their sexuality is the only chance to get their rightful position on the scale of values our society has... "ugly truth" as it was said here - but nonetheless
Rightful position??? What is so "rightful" about a woman's position in a society in which she values herself and is valued only according to her sexuality?

This is precisely why I had said that I fear women basing their identities solely on their sexuality only perpetuates the problem.

Just because something is "such a way" doesn't mean it's right and that people should just continue to turn a blind eye to it.
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