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  #201  
Old 02.07.2012, 22:41
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Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

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Lol, never heard anyone describe the k8 as better than the hawk, which also is still in production. K8 is cheaper for sure, but hardly different from the PC-9 in capabilities and role. Who operates k8 outside china? Venezuela, Zimbabwe, Egypt??? Great club for SAF to join!!!

If SAF where looking for cheaper alternatives to gripen, something more like a newer f5, then the Chinese JF17 or south Korean golden eagle would make more sense than the frogfoot or k8, at least they are supersonic and have air-engagement radars. I would say LCA but doubt the Indians can produce them quick enough yet to satisfy export orders.
Egypt even produces the K-8 under licence ! The Chinese would be delighted to see the K-8 produced in Switzerland, which would be good for Switzerland, as the PRC is gradually becoming one of the most important markets of the Swiss industry ! And costs are of prime importance !
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  #202  
Old 02.07.2012, 22:45
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Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

can i vote to close this thread? thanks in advance.
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  #203  
Old 02.07.2012, 22:46
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Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

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No point in speculating guys. The winner has been chosen, the JAS39 Gripen will either be purchased or nothing at all.

The Bloodhounds were operated by the Air Force, Missile Group 70 with two detachments, 71 & 72. At the time, their bases and storage facilities were top secret, most Swiss people didn't have a clue where they were. The main bunker has now been used as a cheese making facility by a dairy company. I have a bunch of Bloodhound bits, including a rather special office conference table made up using three of the Thor ramjet engines. Nice.
Sure, the bet is on the Gripen. It is the same situation as when the F-18 came to a popular vote. I voted YES, as the choice was simply the F-18 or nothing ! The choice they made possibly was political as the Rafale would have been French and the Eurofighter German, so that to opt for Sweden makes sense
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  #204  
Old 03.07.2012, 08:05
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Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

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Sure, the bet is on the Gripen. It is the same situation as when the F-18 came to a popular vote. I voted YES, as the choice was simply the F-18 or nothing ! The choice they made possibly was political as the Rafale would have been French and the Eurofighter German, so that to opt for Sweden makes sense
That's not the case Wolli. We know from the leaked Armasuisse test reports that "Le Monde" received that Dassault's Rafale was judged to be the best airplane, but Defense Minister Maurer's choice was simply for the cheapest option, which was the Swedish jet. I don't believe that simplistic political or geographical considerations were the catalyst. Any offers that Sweden is now making is just to try and sweeten the deal further.
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  #205  
Old 03.07.2012, 09:18
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Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

To be honest I don't think Switzerland needs the jets. For all the woes of the f18, they could just try buying some additional airframes off Spain (who need cash) and put half the fleet through various upgrades. F18 could be used for air-ground obviously. Then invest some left over cash in RAUG's UCAV efforts.
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  #206  
Old 03.07.2012, 21:34
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Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

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That's not the case Wolli. We know from the leaked Armasuisse test reports that "Le Monde" received that Dassault's Rafale was judged to be the best airplane, but Defense Minister Maurer's choice was simply for the cheapest option, which was the Swedish jet. I don't believe that simplistic political or geographical considerations were the catalyst. Any offers that Sweden is now making is just to try and sweeten the deal further.
For Sweden, the possible contract with Switzerland is a prestige thing, and so they are fairly ready to take Swiss wishes, while neither the French nor the Germans are ready for compromises.

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To be honest I don't think Switzerland needs the jets. For all the woes of the f18, they could just try buying some additional airframes off Spain (who need cash) and put half the fleet through various upgrades. F18 could be used for air-ground obviously. Then invest some left over cash in RAUG's UCAV efforts.
The F-18 not only is an expensive airplane, but the procurement of spares over the years has proven to be complicated, slow and difficult. I am sure that Sweden will deliver spares within a day !
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  #207  
Old 07.07.2012, 13:44
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Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

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----
and to replace the F-5 my favourites would be the Su-25


and the Hongdu K-8 Karakorum
You would replace F5 with Su25? Aircraft designed primarily for engaging targets on the ground? You realize that Su 25 and F5 are designed for different uses? Su 25 is in class with A10, I don't see how it would be usefull in any way to CH...............
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  #208  
Old 20.01.2014, 12:55
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Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

Swiss democracy being what it is, has a referendum slated for May 18, 2014 to let Joe Public decide if this nation is now able to modernize the jet fighter fleet with the Saab Gripen.

In the meantime, Brasil has signed up for 36 of the Gripen NG, which means that Sweden's decision to proceed with updating their own legacy Gripen fleet with the new "NG model" is now also financially secure.

Of course, the average citizen will not be voting on the fact that 54 older F-5 Tigers are almost obsolete and no longer strategically effective, but will either support a strong Armed Forces as an insurance policy into the future or consider the whole issue a complete waste of money which could be better spent on the schools, hospitals and public transport.
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  #209  
Old 21.01.2014, 06:53
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Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

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You would replace F5 with Su25? Aircraft designed primarily for engaging targets on the ground? You realize that Su 25 and F5 are designed for different uses? Su 25 is in class with A10, I don't see how it would be usefull in any way to CH...............
The Su-25 is a ground attack fighter and so exactly what was to be procured. I well remember the time of the procurement, when, after a dozen ground attack planes to be checked, fairly suddenly the F-5 was chosen.
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  #210  
Old 21.01.2014, 06:58
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Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

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Swiss democracy being what it is, has a referendum slated for May 18, 2014 to let Joe Public decide if this nation is now able to modernize the jet fighter fleet with the Saab Gripen.

In the meantime, Brasil has signed up for 36 of the Gripen NG, which means that Sweden's decision to proceed with updating their own legacy Gripen fleet with the new "NG model" is now also financially secure.

Of course, the average citizen will not be voting on the fact that 54 older F-5 Tigers are almost obsolete and no longer strategically effective, but will either support a strong Armed Forces as an insurance policy into the future or consider the whole issue a complete waste of money which could be better spent on the schools, hospitals and public transport.
Just as was the case when the F-18 were approved in a vote, the citizen in reality has to say yes or no to the armed forces
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  #211  
Old 12.02.2014, 08:35
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Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

yes. its good for the economy-and those chocolate factorys need some protection
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  #212  
Old 12.02.2014, 09:08
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Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

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To be honest I don't think Switzerland needs the jets. For all the woes of the f18, they could just try buying some additional airframes off Spain (who need cash) and put half the fleet through various upgrades. F18 could be used for air-ground obviously. Then invest some left over cash in RAUG's UCAV efforts.
You've been watching too many of the house flipping shows, haven't you?
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Old 12.02.2014, 21:12
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Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

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That's not the case Wolli. We know from the leaked Armasuisse test reports that "Le Monde" received that Dassault's Rafale was judged to be the best airplane, but Defense Minister Maurer's choice was simply for the cheapest option, which was the Swedish jet. I don't believe that simplistic political or geographical considerations were the catalyst. Any offers that Sweden is now making is just to try and sweeten the deal further.
I was in favour of the Rafale this time and in favour of F-16 last time. But I both times in the end supported the winner of the game, as the choice we as citizens have is to have the fighter jets or not to have them. And this means that we have the choice between having an army or NOT having an army.

I mean, if the people reject the Gripen, I will in future vote in favour of giving up the armed forces , as I do not believe in an army of radio-hikers (Radio-Wanderer)

I for many decades was and still am in favour of a professional army instead of that heavily oversized militia army around here at present.

I in votes supported the army out of a sense of solidarity and of civic responsibilty

But I am not convinced that it is really necessary. I am quite confident that the Cantonal Police of Ticino and the City Police of Lugano are quite able to turn back the Italian Army
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  #214  
Old 12.02.2014, 21:16
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Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

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yes. its good for the economy-and those chocolate factorys need some protection
no no no --- the chocolate factories are NOT protected by the armed forces but supply the armed forces with chocolate ..... and so are protecting the army
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Old 12.02.2014, 21:39
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Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

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no no no --- the chocolate factories are NOT protected by the armed forces but supply the armed forces with chocolate ..... and so are protecting the army
Well, I would say keeping morale up rather than protecting.
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  #216  
Old 12.02.2014, 21:46
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Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

No. It does not.
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  #217  
Old 12.02.2014, 21:47
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Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

Why not?
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Old 12.02.2014, 21:49
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Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

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no no no --- the chocolate factories are NOT protected by the armed forces but supply the armed forces with chocolate ..... and so are protecting the army
Right — they keep them going without 'having to go'.
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  #219  
Old 12.02.2014, 21:56
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Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

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I was in favour of the Rafale this time and in favour of F-16 last time. But I both times in the end supported the winner of the game, as the choice we as citizens have is to have the fighter jets or not to have them. And this means that we have the choice between having an army or NOT having an army.

I mean, if the people reject the Gripen, I will in future vote in favour of giving up the armed forces , as I do not believe in an army of radio-hikers (Radio-Wanderer)

I for many decades was and still am in favour of a professional army instead of that heavily oversized militia army around here at present.

I in votes supported the army out of a sense of solidarity and of civic responsibilty

But I am not convinced that it is really necessary. I am quite confident that the Cantonal Police of Ticino and the City Police of Lugano are quite able to turn back the Italian Army
About "I am quite confident that the Cantonal Police of Ticino and the City Police of Lugano are quite able to turn back the Italian Army " No need to fight; just offer them well paid Swiss jobs - no problem in Ticino
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  #220  
Old 12.02.2014, 22:28
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Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

Luckily the Swiss voting public, fresh from being experts on immigration ratios, will now turn their expert analysis towards the choice of our next fighter jet.

Forgetting the actual Gripen for a moment (which about 90% of people couldn't pick out of a line up of any other camouflaged grey jet anyway), this vote will be swayed by how effective the left and Greens are at picking holes in the military.

Conservative voters (BDP, CVP, EVP, FDP and SVP) will face off against the socialists and Greens. It's too early to see how this one will be played, but with Joe Average actually not having a deep insight into the real operating costs of a military program over its typical lifespan, this will really be a "do we want the military" vote all over again, similar to recent referendums which the conservative / liberal parties clearly won.
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