Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Swiss politics/news
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #281  
Old 17.05.2014, 10:53
Carlos R's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Roundn'about Basel
Posts: 7,187
Groaned at 113 Times in 101 Posts
Thanked 9,824 Times in 4,138 Posts
Carlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Voting tomorrow

Great. Thanks for that!

There's a thread here for you: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Carlos R for this useful post:
  #282  
Old 17.05.2014, 11:01
GarryBasel's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Basel
Posts: 105
Groaned at 8 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 49 Times in 29 Posts
GarryBasel has earned some respectGarryBasel has earned some respect
Re: Voting tomorrow

Well, the future is robots and drone warfare. So I don't wish to risk our brave Swiss pilots fighting American robot killer drones. Rather shoot them down with SAMs. Each SAM is cheaper than a drone. Each Swiss Gemeinde can maintain say, a dozen SAMs and they can be fired when a threat overhead occurs.
Reply With Quote
  #283  
Old 17.05.2014, 11:13
mirfield's Avatar
Moddy McModface
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Basel
Posts: 8,514
Groaned at 57 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 8,956 Times in 3,297 Posts
mirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Voting tomorrow

I'm not sure many surface to air missiles have an "escort the baddie out of our airspace" setting.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank mirfield for this useful post:
  #284  
Old 17.05.2014, 12:03
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: the Netherlands
Posts: 60
Groaned at 13 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 37 Times in 13 Posts
nikokons has earned some respectnikokons has earned some respect
Re: Voting tomorrow

I just wonder from whom Switzerland is in danger? Even Hitler (for some reason.......) did not touch it. Will the French invade you or the macaroni people?
P.S. If you think you are in danger...will 22 Gripen solve your problems? I would rather say 80-100 would be some considerable amount.

Quote:
View Post
We Swiss are voting tomorrow, the final day, regarding fonds to buy 22 Gripen defence jets. I believe drones and SAMs would be better to defend us in the future.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank nikokons for this useful post:
This user groans at nikokons for this post:
  #285  
Old 17.05.2014, 12:20
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 22,243
Groaned at 1,170 Times in 917 Posts
Thanked 25,138 Times in 12,036 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Voting tomorrow

Personally, I'd prefer attack helicopters.

Anyway, it's a yes here, otherwise the army would have to be gotten rid of as well, as an army without air support is useless.

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #286  
Old 17.05.2014, 12:27
Castro's Avatar
à la mod
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Basel-Land of Smiles
Posts: 5,109
Groaned at 104 Times in 84 Posts
Thanked 14,647 Times in 4,718 Posts
Castro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Voting tomorrow

Quote:
View Post
Well, the future is robots and drone warfare. So I don't wish to risk our brave Swiss pilots fighting American robot killer drones. Rather shoot them down with SAMs. Each SAM is cheaper than a drone. Each Swiss Gemeinde can maintain say, a dozen SAMs and they can be fired when a threat overhead occurs.
What an aweful future, drones killing each other and us.
Fortunately some forward-thinking people thought it enough a threat to bring it to the UN i.e. Ban Killer Robots
Reply With Quote
  #287  
Old 17.05.2014, 13:24
mojado's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 804
Groaned at 14 Times in 10 Posts
Thanked 783 Times in 347 Posts
mojado has a reputation beyond reputemojado has a reputation beyond reputemojado has a reputation beyond reputemojado has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Voting tomorrow

Quote:
View Post
We Swiss are voting tomorrow, the final day, regarding fonds to buy 22 Gripen defence jets. I believe drones and SAMs would be better to defend us in the future.
They have acknowledged that the Grippen may not be the best, but they rather buy the jets from a neutral provider, instead of getting them from manufacturers based in countries in which they have Tax disputes.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank mojado for this useful post:
  #288  
Old 17.05.2014, 23:23
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 21,038
Groaned at 445 Times in 337 Posts
Thanked 23,990 Times in 10,889 Posts
Odile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Voting tomorrow

In Neuchâtel we are also voting on windfarms- 59 x 200 m high- in 5 areas on top of the Jura- and 110+ planned on the Swiss and Bern side too.
Reply With Quote
  #289  
Old 17.05.2014, 23:32
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Misery-Courtion
Posts: 17,882
Groaned at 301 Times in 233 Posts
Thanked 13,146 Times in 7,535 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Voting tomorrow

Quote:
View Post
They have acknowledged that the Grippen may not be the best, but they rather buy the jets from a neutral provider, instead of getting them from manufacturers based in countries in which they have Tax disputes.
Even though the plane is totally wrong for Swiss needs. How to waste a LOT of money in one easy lesson.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Medea Fleecestealer for this useful post:
  #290  
Old 18.05.2014, 00:03
Carlos R's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Roundn'about Basel
Posts: 7,187
Groaned at 113 Times in 101 Posts
Thanked 9,824 Times in 4,138 Posts
Carlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Voting tomorrow

Quote:
View Post
Personally, I'd prefer attack helicopters.

Anyway, it's a yes here, otherwise the army would have to be gotten rid of as well, as an army without air support is useless.

Tom
On that topic, I saw an Apache or something damned close at Mulhouse/Basel airport last Thursday... didn't realise that anyone had anything like that around here...
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Carlos R for this useful post:
  #291  
Old 18.05.2014, 00:58
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,185
Groaned at 328 Times in 175 Posts
Thanked 2,127 Times in 928 Posts
treesarehalal is considered unworthytreesarehalal is considered unworthytreesarehalal is considered unworthytreesarehalal is considered unworthytreesarehalal is considered unworthy
Re: Voting tomorrow

Quote:
View Post
I believe drones and SAMs would be better to defend us in the future.
love this post. Best argument again direct democracy I've ever seen. What would you know about the intricacies of defence strategy and procurement? Next you'll be voting about how much lithium Apple Inc should purchase in April 2015.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank treesarehalal for this useful post:
  #292  
Old 18.05.2014, 08:34
Slaphead's Avatar
Moderato espressivo
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Zürich
Posts: 3,243
Groaned at 41 Times in 37 Posts
Thanked 9,408 Times in 2,870 Posts
Slaphead has a reputation beyond reputeSlaphead has a reputation beyond reputeSlaphead has a reputation beyond reputeSlaphead has a reputation beyond reputeSlaphead has a reputation beyond reputeSlaphead has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Voting tomorrow

Quote:
View Post
I just wonder from whom Switzerland is in danger? Even Hitler (for some reason.......) did not touch it. Will the French invade you or the macaroni people?
P.S. If you think you are in danger...will 22 Gripen solve your problems? I would rather say 80-100 would be some considerable amount.
Probably not, but you've got admit they look dead sexy
Reply With Quote
  #293  
Old 18.05.2014, 09:22
Jern's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Bern
Posts: 907
Groaned at 11 Times in 10 Posts
Thanked 1,091 Times in 470 Posts
Jern has a reputation beyond reputeJern has a reputation beyond reputeJern has a reputation beyond reputeJern has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

Switzerland reminds me of a hard-working, conservative person who invests his money cautiously over many years and then, when he starts to feel wealthy, finds it burning a hole in his pocket. Yes, he would like to treat himself to that squadron of shiny Gripen in the shop window. You never know - they may come in useful one day, and they will certainly impress the neighbours. And maybe he should now think about guaranteeing a minimum wage. That would be a decent thing to do. And, because he can afford to pay decent Swiss people decent wages to do decent work, he can stop those hordes of foreign workers who have been swarming across the border.

So, I guess that the vote will be in favour of buying the Gripen. It's almost certainly a waste of money, but no-one will ever know how things would have turned out without it.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Jern for this useful post:
  #294  
Old 18.05.2014, 09:38
Texaner's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zentralschweiz
Posts: 2,048
Groaned at 99 Times in 89 Posts
Thanked 2,984 Times in 1,429 Posts
Texaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

A colleague shared a perspective this week that was new to me...

He voted no, not because he doesn't want new jets, but because he's convinced the Gripen aren't the right ones. He says they're unproven, will be built by an already struggling company (SAAB), less capable than (for example) the Eurofighter, have only one engine, etc., etc.

He makes an interesting argument, but the first question that comes to my mind is: If the Gripen vote fails, would a subsequent vote for (for example) Eurofighters really stand a chance? Are there really enough voters who would come to the same conclusion and vote against the Gripen, but then vote for the Eurofighter?

Quote:
View Post
...I think USA are quite an authority in terms of weapons for defense...
USA hasn't fought defensively for decades.
__________________
"Live every day as if it were going to be your last; for one day you're sure to be right." — Harry Morant
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Texaner for this useful post:
  #295  
Old 18.05.2014, 09:56
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: ZH
Posts: 5,069
Groaned at 62 Times in 52 Posts
Thanked 2,549 Times in 1,526 Posts
SOBEIT has a reputation beyond reputeSOBEIT has a reputation beyond reputeSOBEIT has a reputation beyond reputeSOBEIT has a reputation beyond reputeSOBEIT has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

If procurement is agreed, one has to ask whether support mechanisms, infrastructure are/will be in place and they have the right trained technicians to sustain the aircraft long term.
Reply With Quote
  #296  
Old 18.05.2014, 09:57
Assassin's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Chasing clouds
Posts: 4,045
Groaned at 180 Times in 123 Posts
Thanked 11,560 Times in 3,148 Posts
Assassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

Whichever way the vote comes out today, the pro-Gripen camp didn't run a good campaign, it should have never been down to Joe Public to approve the type, rather agree that funds be allocated to purchase a Tiger replacement.

The core of the issue is that the F-5 Tiger fleet is now obsolete and ineffective. It's not about the Saab jet or the future of the military, but it's been effectively turned into that debate by the socialists.

The issue would have been far simpler if the VBS (Defense Department) had clearly stated that from the original fleet of 110 Tigers, so many have been lost through attrition, so many sold to the US Navy etc. and now the fleet is 40 years old and needs to be replaced. By holding the three fighter jet evaluation in Emmen well before the Swiss public had agreed to the replacement, it was obvious that there was going to end up being a referendum which is not the way to decide to how to keep your armed forces modernized in my opinion.

No one can accurately argue if Switzerland needs or doesn't need effective air coverage because what may or may not happen in the future. Quite frankly, some military officers have put up lousy arguments that are laughable, but so too have those whose views are to the left. It comes down to a principle, much like insurance; you pay for what you get and if you're willing to stand idly by if international tensions escalate knowing that you dont have a big stick to wield, your power of argument is severely diminished. That's why I voted yes.
__________________
Crash your karma into little bits of happiness
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Assassin for this useful post:
  #297  
Old 18.05.2014, 10:11
olygirl's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: d' Innerschwiiz
Posts: 5,367
Groaned at 235 Times in 156 Posts
Thanked 11,778 Times in 3,585 Posts
olygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

I'm voting yes because my gut feeling says to.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank olygirl for this useful post:
  #298  
Old 18.05.2014, 11:34
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,023
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,716 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Voting tomorrow

Quote:
View Post
I just wonder from whom Switzerland is in danger? Even Hitler (for some reason.......) did not touch it. Will the French invade you or the macaroni people?
P.S. If you think you are in danger...will 22 Gripen solve your problems? I would rather say 80-100 would be some considerable amount.
In short, does Switzerland need armed forces ? You give an answer which is a clear NO. The way to go may be to hand over much of the army hardware to the Cantonal Police Forces andupgrade the Cantonal Police Forces as best as possible, but to abolish the Union Army
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Wollishofener for this useful post:
  #299  
Old 18.05.2014, 11:57
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,023
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,716 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Voting tomorrow

Quote:
View Post
Well, the future is robots and drone warfare. So I don't wish to risk our brave Swiss pilots fighting American robot killer drones. Rather shoot them down with SAMs. Each SAM is cheaper than a drone. Each Swiss Gemeinde can maintain say, a dozen SAMs and they can be fired when a threat overhead occurs.


-- robots and drones ? Maybe if you have enough of them. Otherwise just rubbish
-- robots and drones require lots of qualified staff and a comprehensive organisation
-- SAMs can only be effective if around in sufficient quantities and with enough qualified personnel
-- fired when a threat occurs ? the threat will come up with at least 700 kilometers per hour. The Gemeinde-Personal possibly will not cope
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Wollishofener for this useful post:
  #300  
Old 18.05.2014, 15:08
cannut's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: canada
Posts: 6,577
Groaned at 179 Times in 139 Posts
Thanked 5,758 Times in 3,156 Posts
cannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

Quote:
View Post
A colleague shared a perspective this week that was new to me...

He voted no, not because he doesn't want new jets, but because he's convinced the Gripen aren't the right ones. He says they're unproven, will be built by an already struggling company (SAAB), less capable than (for example) the Eurofighter, have only one engine, etc., etc.

He makes an interesting argument, but the first question that comes to my mind is: If the Gripen vote fails, would a subsequent vote for (for example) Eurofighters really stand a chance? Are there really enough voters who would come to the same conclusion and vote against the Gripen, but then vote for the Eurofighter?



USA hasn't fought defensively for decades.

9/11/2001 But failed miserably

Last edited by 3Wishes; 18.05.2014 at 15:45. Reason: fixed quoting
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank cannut for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
air force, basel, dentist, english, fighter, gripen, hornet, jet, jets, tiger




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Why does ZRH need to select a new new tram rather than ordering more of the recent ? pabcbc Transportation/driving 21 25.05.2011 20:37
Would we be mad to start a new business and what does Switzerland need? buchs Employment 21 27.08.2010 16:53
Jets in the sky omidada Daily life 8 28.08.2008 16:17
Does anyone need help with the household chores or need a babysitter here in Basel??? Butterball Jobs wanted 0 30.07.2008 22:00
Does irish resident need to pay tax in Ireland on salary earned in Switzerland ? grimmus Finance/banking/taxation 9 09.06.2008 11:48


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 03:53.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0